I need to have a rant, we won AV puppy but couldn't go through to group as it wasn't a qualifying class, damn my stupid KC rule reading incompetence, lesson learned never enter the AV class only enter breed classes or AVNSC.

open & limit shows judged on the group system

Best puppy in group and subsequent puppy group placings must be selected from those puppies which have been judged and which are unbeaten by any other puppy.

The above quote has been taken from the red book, it does not say that you have to go in a breed class or nsc(unlike a dog over 12 mths old).

For a puppy to go through to group or BPIS is must have competed and remain unbeaten by any other puppy so in my book you should have been allowed into group and your interpretation was the correct one.

I thought it was a bit strange that we couldn't otherwise whats the point in putting in that class if you cant progress from it, as you pointed out our puppy was unbeaten so should have been able to go through.

AV Puppy can go through to the puppy group - Best AV cannot compete in the adult group.

So the society were wrong if they did not let you compete ;)

Well now im miffed

It only applies to puppies but now you know you can insist on entry refer them to their own schedule.

> Well now im miffed

I should think you would be...you will remember for another time though.

I might, if I were you, contact the club concerned & just mention that you were told the wrong info on the day.

I was going to complain but its only an open show and to be honest its over and done with I don't think it would achieve anything apart from correcting them on the rules.

> apart from correcting them on the rules.

thats what i mean

but they will know in the future when it arises so I would complain...  well done for winning the class ....

Its worth complaining so it doesnt happen to somebody else.

I did the same last year, won AV Working Puppy and then Best AV Working overall but was only allowed in the puppy group and not the adult group despite beating other older working dogs. Live and learn :)

It does only apply to puppies and not the adult classes - a puppy can enter group or BPIS if it has competed and not been beaten by another puppy - for adult group and BIS the rule is the dog must first have entered a breed or NSC class and not been beaten by any other dog AV classes do not count, can't think why at the moment but expect there is a reason. 

Can I check 1 thing with you before you do contact them, was there a puppy class available within your breed or AVNSC, the rule states that if no puppy class available in your breed/NSC that a puppy in AV class can go forward to group, a lot of people do this if there if the classes start at Junior and they have 2 puppies, they then enter 1 in the junior class and the other in AV puppy, they don't then have to compete against each other and if both win would both move on to Group puppy, as far as I can remember this happened recently at Luton, where 2 Leonbergers were in the puppy group ring. Hope that has helped

No there wasn't a breed class hence the AV, there wasn't even AVNSC Puppy or Junior just Open, iv contacted the sec and have had a nice reply apologizing, its being brought up in their next meeting just pointing out to the stewards that AV puppy could go through, which is all i really wanted.

The sec said it shouldn't happen again and that if we have any doubts challenge them about it so that the same mistake doesn't happen again.

Thats a good outcome...well as good as can be...lol...

Good, glad you contacted them, it was my 1st year as show manager this year at Barking Canine and if an error like that had happened I would like to know so it can be sorted for future, never be affraid to ask quetions if you are unsure, i'm sure the show secretary would never mind