Hello everyone, new member here, looking for some advice.

I don't know if there are any Malinois owners on here, but I thought I'd put it out here anyway.

I have had dogs my whole life, and sadly lost my last one last summer.
I am very interested in getting a Malinois, but all I have heard so far is how difficult they can be, and I'm wondering if I need to rethink my decision.

I live in the countryside, with a large secure garden and paddock, as well as free access to over 200 acres of adjoining farmland. I live an active lifestyle, enjoy long distance walking, and have horses, which are kept at home. I am fortunate to have a job very close to home, which would also allow me to take any future dog with me. It's also worth mentioning that there are no children in the household (just me and my parents) and no other pets apart from the 3 horses previously mentioned

I am interested in a Malinois for the following reasons: I want a high energy and intelligent long distance walking companion, burglar deterrent and pet. I would also love to join an agility club to try my hand, and train for obedience - although I have no interest in competition obedience.  I think Malinois are very good looking dogs, and from what I have read seem to be generally healthier than breeds of a similar type.

However, up until now I have only ever owned sighthounds, so I am new to the pastoral group, as well as the Malinois breed.

This isn't a passing whim - I've had an interest in the breed for the past year or so. Recently though, as I'm intensified my research I keep reading how "full on" Mals are.  I already have a visit to a breeder planned for next month so I can ask them as well, but I would appreciate other input.
Do you think this is a train wreck waiting to happen, or is there a chance that it might work? I have fallen in love with the Malinois!

Please tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree (pun intended!)

Thanks
Kate

(x-posted to a couple of other places. Sorry if you've seen it before)

There are some very learned and experienced Malinois owners on here :)
Just ask and you will be rewarded.
I am a Belgian owner & fan myself - many people don't realise that the Mali is just one of 4 belgian breeds all from the same roots.

However, the Mali has in recent years been taken over by working dog enthusiasts meaning that out of all the Belgian breeds the Mali is the most common found in rescue. Well-intentioned prospective owners may think YES! I will have a rescue.... but it really doesn't work like that with this breed at all.

With many breeds of dog, it is often said Not for Novice Owners... and that does apply to all 4 Belgian breeds. People think they look like GSDs and might be like them, but they are not..... They are reactive, fast, and much more like a supercharged Border Collie in that respect. I often see rescue Belgians on charity sites where it's said, "Shepherd Experience needed" well that won't work well.... as they are nothing like a GSD.

The working Malis are a law unto themselves. Bred from very high drive continental working lines that have found their way to the UK, these are emphatically NOT pet dogs, yet they are turning up in rescue by the dozen because they are being overbred and the breeders are getting stuck to find suitable homes. Less than ideal breeders are placing them in pet homes, and the dogs are ending up in rescue befopre a year old. Not to mention the multitude of crosses that are appearing, I have no idea what those dogs are like or where they will end up, but it's all gone very wrong.

If you really want a Mali I would get in touch with the Belgian Shepherd club and source some breeders, go to Crufts and meet them and the dogs. You might even find that you're attracted to the other Belgian breeds as well as or instead of the Malis. They all have fantastic characters and personalities, which is what clinched it for me.

Hi Kate

I would say you sound like an ideal potential Malinois owner. I have 7. :) The first thing you need to look into, like Ms Temeraire said, is that the breed has very much been split into two parts -show lines and working lines. (Although to be honest I think that description is incorrect -it's more like dual purpose lines and working lines, as the show dogs can often still work but the working dogs cannot be shown.) The working lines are very intense, need a lot of training, exercise and activity, and have been bred for one reason only : to be able to work. Hence these can be over the top and probably not suitable for a first time Malinois owner unless you already have plenty of experience of dogs. However in the right hands these are fantastic dogs. It has to be said though that a lot of people have jumped on the bandwagon -there was a rumour started to circulate years ago that the police would pay £3000 for a good Malinois puppy and so people started breeding them for no other reason than to make money. The wrong people with no experience. When they found not all their puppies were suitable for the police (they do have strict criteria) they got desperate to get rid of pups and hence would sell to anyone who would buy -sometimes totally unsuitable homes. This is why we now see Malinois in rescue -in 99.9 % of all cases the Malis in rescue are working bred ones. There ARE good working breeders, most definitely, but most of them will only sell to really serious competition homes or the police and similar. Beware of any breeder that does not ask you a lot of questions, that describe their pups as ideal pets, and who have not had all health testing done on the parents. It is possible to pick up a Malinois for as little as £150 at the moment as there are too many about and breeders cannot sell them -needless to say anyone like that I'd carefully query as to why they are selling so cheap etc. Normal price is £600 to £700 so one of the cheaper breeds anyway. You DO want KC registration -many are sold unregistered, and many, when they grow up, prove to be anythign but purebred when not KC registered, having a dash of GSD and all sorts in them.

Obviously the looks of the two lines  are different -the working dogs are bigger, tend to have a shorter coat, bigger heads, larger ears, paler eyes, darker colour. The show lines (which is the lines that first arrived in the UK in the early 1970s) obviously fit the breed standard better so are the opposite of what I've just described. A lot of the show dogs can still work -and by work I mean professionally, not just agility, obedience and similar. Just to clarify: I currently have no puppies (recently sold a litter) and no litters planned so this is NOT a way of advertising, but I have bred dogs that do well at shows, that compete in obedience and agility at high levels, dogs that work as security dogs, and from my last litter two pups have gone to the ministry of defence for police dog training. So for your purposes, you'd be fine with a show line dog.

The one negative thing about thew show lines is that they can be nervous -it's important to make sure the parents have nice solid temperaments. The breed standard says they should be wary of strangers so yes, it's not necessarily a bad thing if a Malinois does not run up to every stranger it meets to say hello and ask for a treat (although many do and I prefer this!) but they should not shy away either.

Puppies need a lot of socialising, more so than other breeds I'd say. A Malinois will make split second decisions, and what happens to them as pups largely dictate what they turn out like as adults. So they need a lot of nice experiences as puppies, getting used to strangers, other dogs, other animals, traffic, busy places, noises, sudden movements etc. If they decide something is not nice it's hard to change their opinion. Most are either very toy orientated or very food orientated and positive training is the way to go -you can't force a Malinois to do anything as they will just dig their heels in and point blank refuse. A couple of simple examples: with my first Malinois, I still used traditional training methods and when I could not push her into a down to teach her that, I spent an hour and a half with a trainer trying to physically force her to lay down. She might only have weighed 24 kilos but she was stronger than both of us so that why it took so long to get her to do it. Even today, when she is almost 11, she doesn't like going into a down, although she will do and has competed in obedience. Her first daughter that I kept on the other hand went into a down within a couple of seconds with the simple aid of a piece of sausage. I took a couple of pups to training class for the first time this week and when we walked into a crowded, busy and noisy hall full of people and dogs, carrying the pups, they at first got worried and didn't like it at all. My husband and I put the pups on the floor and brought out some hot dogs -instantly the pups started wagging their tails and relaxed. The right encouragement goes a LONG way with a Malinois. (And what is right depends on the dog, for one it could be sausages, for another a ball, for a third a tuggy toy etc.)

The breed is very healthy, average hip score just 9 so essentially hip dysplasia isn't seen but only buy from parents that have been hip scored (many of the working breeders do not, but again the good ones do) and parents should also be eye tested for hereditary cataracts once a year -again it is very rare to have a problem. They tend to stay healthy and live for 14-15 years. And be warned as they do NOT slow down with age!

They will guard naturally and therefore should not be encouraged to guard as then they will go over the top, they need to be taught that when you say something is okay it is, and they need to meet lots of people and get used to being friendly. If and when the need arises, they will guard naturally. If I am here anyone can walk into my house, if the house was empty of people a burglar would not stand a chance.

As a breed they are extremely loyal to their owners. If one person trains the dog they will belong to that person forever and nobody else will really matter. If several people help bring a pup up it will be as loyal to all of them, but they are always one person or one family dogs.

They get on fine with other animals and children if brought up with them since puppyhood, if not, it can be a problem -for instance I would not recommend having an adult Malinois and then acquiring a cat or similar, the dog must be used to them from puppyhood. Likewise they can be sheepkillers etc so again this is something to get them used to from pups; being around farm animals. The best age to get a pup is from 7 to 10 weeks as they bond quickly with their owners and any later you will have more work as they will already be bonded to the breeder.

Well I've written half a novel here, hope it was of some help. :)

Wow MarianneB, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post and I feel I have a really good insight in to what Malinois are like to own and if I was looking into this breed your post would most definfitely help me to decide. It was fab reading from someone who owns and has considerable experience of the breed.
I have a lot of respect for the advice you give on this forum as your experience comes through in your posts. I know there are lot of other experienced owners and breeders who have specialist knowledge of their breed and I would love to read about other breeds in the same depth that you have given. It would be useful too for anyone visiting the site to find out about breeds of dogs.
Thank you for an honest look at Malinois giving good and bad points I was engrossed lol, not the breed for me but your dogs are absolutely gorgeous
jane

Oh thanks Jane -blushing now! :)

I agree, I think it is a great to see someone asking for advice and doing their research and a knowledgable owner replying and being honest about good and bad points. If only more people were like it there might not be as much rehoming.
I always get across the point that whilst my breed do not shed they need grooming and they wipe their beards along the wall and the sofa- not for the fainthearted :)

I didn't know anything at all about the Malinois....but found that absolutely enthralling :)

Bravo..! :)

From one Belgian owner to another Marianne, that was fab :)

Lindsay
x

Hi Kate,

I think Marianne has pretty much summed up what they are like but I thought i'd post what mine are like for you to read as i have 3! I have 2 females (one is almost 3 and was our first, the other has just turned 2) and we have a 3 and a half year old male that moved in with us in August last year. I do agility with all of mine and they are very good agility dogs.

All of mine do naturally guard and are especially protective of me as my husband works away a lot. Heidi, my eldest girl is 100% my husbands dog, I train her but when he is home she has only 1 interest and that is him! Megan, my youngest girl is mine and I compete with her and Kody our boy is going to be worked by both of us.

They are all from the same breeder and are from show lines or dual purpose as Marianne put it.

They do take a lot of socialisation, something we didn't really realise. We made a lot of mistakes with our first girl which is something we learnt from buy the time Megan came along. Heidi is VERY nervous of people she doesn't know and tend to bark at them as her initial reaction although she is much better now than she was when she was younger. She had a bad experience at the vets as a pup, having to have lots of blood tests which means she is also terrified of the vets now. We have spent a lot of time and effort taking her to agility shows and meeting new people and dogs and teaching her to cope in crowded situations. Agility has helped her to become a much more confident dog.

Megan was very well socialised as a pup and is ok with other people although she does tend to shy away sometimes (she wouldn't make a very good show dog) and despite meeting lots of dogs she isn't keen on other dogs unless she has had chance to get to know them.

Kody is again a little shy but not to bad really.

One thing I will say is that you don't seem to be able;e to just have 1, before you know it you'll have a few!!!

They are lovely dogs and I wouldn't swap mine for the world (and i'm sure the 3 I have wont be the last), if you exercise them and socialise them and train them well (even if you decide not to do agility) they make brilliant companions.

Again as Marianne said, they are healthy dogs, apart from the odd cut pad and Heidi didn't eat much as a pup (hence the blood tests) ours have not really had anything wrong with them. They have not been hip scored as I don't intend to breed so I cant comment on that but all their parents have low scores (under 6 I think).

If you need any more info though id be happy to help.

Good luck in your decision,

Kate

Oh my goodness. Loads of fantastic information - thanks so much!!

I've already been in contact with (what sounds like) a very good breeder. She gave me a good grilling on the phone which impressed me a lot. I'd already done a lot of research but she implored me to do more - hence why I am here. Whilst I have read up about the breed in general, I feel it's equally important to talk to people who actually own and handle them.

Again, thanks so much! I think I see a Mal pup in my future this summer :)

> Well I've written half a novel here, hope it was of some help.

Marianne,

Ditto the previous comments! I know you and your dogs, but still found your post engrossing and really well explained, well done and thanks. A great read!!

Really enjoyable read, Marianne - thank you!

Interesting what you said about them not liking to be 'manhandled' in training. Probably like yourself, I first learnt 'traditional' training methods years ago, but when I got my dog I'd read about modern positive training and was comitted to that. Even so, there were times with my dog particularly during his teenager stage, when I became frustrated and automatically leaned on my old ways.

It didn't work - of course it didn't - anything physical resulted in a growl and a snap, and a subsequent loss of trust by him, temporarily thankfully, but like Marianne's first dog, there are still some sticky issues which I have not been able to rectify (I should point out mine is a Belgian cross, father was a Groenendael, but Marianne's advice covers all the Belgians I feel, as they are all somewhat similar in nature). They respond very well to lure & reward training, as well as clickers - essentially anything non-aversive and hands-off.

The guarding thing should not be ignored at all. I was unfortunate enough to have neighbours from hell move in when mine was about 2 years old, and had teenage hoodies leaning over the wall shouting at him and verbally abusing me. There was very little I could do to prevent him guarding, especially as we also met these 'delightful' human beings when out & about. He will now have a lifelong suspicion & antipathy towards any young males between the age of 12-25 especially if they are wearing hoodies and/or have a bicycle. I have to be extremely cautious if we pass any in the street as he has a tendency to lunge and nip, though thankfully we now live in a much quieter and peaceful semi-rural area where respect for animals is a great deal better. To anyone else he is friendliness personified, a very happy and outgoing dog, as he was extremely well socialised from puppyhood.

I hope you enjoy meeting your Mali breeder, do please keep us updated!

I've already been in contact with (what sounds like) a very good breeder. She gave me a good grilling on the phone which impressed me a lot. I'd already done a lot of research but she implored me to do more - hence why I am here.

Sounds good -Jan? Sonja? Helen? Or was it a working breeder? Good luck!

Deborah at Belsharose

www.belsharose.co.uk

Oh I forgot her and Paul -sorry! You'll be fine there!

Hi ..and welcome to the world of BSD - I don't think it's quite true to say that all the varieties have the same type of temperament - I have had BSD for over 25 years ( currently have 4 Groens and 2 Tervs ) I've always found the Groenendael the easier more 'laid back ' of the Belgians and the Malinois more active and 'fizzier'.
When you go to Debbie and Pauls place you'll see all four varieties - take your time to get to know the breed ask loads of questions and stay well away from the working lines !.

We are a friendly crowd 'in Belgians' who welcome newcomers to our wonderful breed - but be warned - you won't stop at one Belgy !!

Yvonne

Another thank you for your great post - they are certainly not the breed for me but I do find the various BSDs very attractive and much enjoyed reading all about them. :-)

Marianne - hope you don't mind but I have linked to this thread on FB, a trainer I know was asking about malis as he's about to start working with his first :-)

Thanks from me also for the info - I've just taken on a 14 month lab X mali, the mali is only 1/4 of her but I think she takes very strongly after it - your info has confirmed that, to my mind at least.  Working lines I reckon going by your description (it was the big head that did it :-p), although can I just ask - are you aware of any nervousness in the working lines at all?  I suspect hers is down to a crappy upbringing but worth exploring every avenue.

although can I just ask - are you aware of any nervousness in the working lines at all?

It does happen, yes -particularly if they haven't been socialised well enough of course. Many of the rescues (that have been very obvious working lines) have been described as nervous.

I have two Mali x Golden Retriever -accidental litter from 9 years ago. Some of them take after their Golden dad, but the Malinois part seems to be the strongest in most of them, certainly in mine.

Interesting thread. I have started to develop a hanking for a Malinois over the last several months :-D Am wondering if I am mad to even consider it though (have always had Dobes and with my current boy being so full on energy wise I told myself I would try a different breed next time and decided it should be one known for being much calmer and quieter!!!).

As an ex Belgian (Groenendael) owner I can confirm most of what has been said.

They are very into their people and for some like me too needy (following me to the bathroom etc) a breed, but great for someone who wants that very close one to one bond with their dog. 

They are a sensitve breed and need a lot of socialisaion, and make great Agility, Obedience etc dog, but training has to be fair and gently firm..

> I would try a different breed next time and decided it should be one known for being much calmer and quieter!!!).

Wrong choice then, I would say pretty similar energy wise, but can be noisier/more shrill.

Just as protective but herdier, but generally very good with other dogs, and much faster and more agile.

They are smaller/lighter though.

>Wrong choice then

Yes, this is what the sensible side of me says!

I could do with the smaller/lighter though and they also seem to be generally far healthier from what I have read..? My current Dobermann has been plagued with health problems from almost the outset. Both of our males have had neck/disc problems.

> I could do with the smaller/lighter though and they also seem to be generally far healthier from what I have read..? My current Dobermann has been plagued with health problems from almost the outset. Both of our males have had neck/disc problems.

Regrettably health is a big issue with dobes, it's something I was aware of going into the breed but it still hurts :-( Soli was diagnosed with DCM in July (most recent figure I know of for this is a 60% mortality rate in dobes), Soli and Remy have hypothyroidism, Soli is also spay-incontinent.  Oh, and Remy has his alopecia/skin problems (he's a fawn).  The one big thing I've not had yet is wobblers but Soli makes up for that with severe degenerative joint disease and osteoarthritis!!

Coming back on topic - you really think the energy levels are similar, Brainless?  I have wanted a mali for years but the drive is what has put me off.  Soli and Paige are handfuls enough (Remy is the exception to the rule, energy-wise)!

They are dogs with a high drive (One of mine is considerably higher than the other 2) but after a day with a good long walk or some training they are happy enough to curl up and go to sleep, its not like they 'never' stop!

All mine do have to follow me to the bathroom, must be a belgian thing!!!

Sorry to hear about Soli - was she showing symptoms of DCM before being diagnosed or did you have her screened just as a precaution? (if that makes sense!). How is Remy doing? Did his wonky shoulder finally sort itself out after he ran into the doorframe? Mine broke a toe last year trying to bolt out the backdoor as I opened it (he does usually do a nice sit and wait, as long as next doors cat isn't sitting in the garden!).

Our previous Dobes haven't been too bad health wise. We got our first one 26 years ago and she was built like an ox and apart from pyo at an early age she was so so healthy until cancer took her at 13. Our first male was mostly healthy, he had afew odd things and several episodes of neck pain that was never fully investigated as it never lasted more than a few days, until he got much older and his back legs started to give way and splay apart as he walked and within a few days he completely collapsed with no sensation to any of his limbs at all so vet was called out and he was PTS there and then (vet said it was probably wobblers, and as he was nearly 11 we decided not to pursue it). Current boy has been a walking disaster! Environmental and food allergies, arthritis in the outside joints of both front feet (due to him turning his front feet in slightly when he walks), osteoarthritis in both knees, OCD in both knees, torn ligament and the subsequent TPLO in one knee (suspect the other is going the same way!), 2 slipped discs in his neck, developed megaesophagus due to regurgitating bile into his esophagus during a GA, and the latest saga is odd readings on blood and urine tests leading vets to think he has the beginnings of a tumour somewhere in his body. He is still only 6! On the plus side, his thyroid function seems to be normal!

I could do with the smaller/lighter though and they also seem to be generally far healthier from what I have read..?

Healthy yes (see my first post), smaller/lighter really depends on how you see it. I like "proper" sized Malis myself, many seem to have shrunk in recent years in the show ring -my Champion bitch is right up to the top of the allowed size for a bitch according to the breed standard (and so certain judges claim she's too big!). She weighs 22.5 kgs, as does her daughter who is not quite as tall. My older male (haven't weighed the younger) weighs 27, he's top size for a dog. But looking aside from weight and height, these dogs are so incredibly strong (and fast) it's almost unbelievable -I dare say anyone would find it hard to hold even a 20 kg bitch that decided to really pull hard on the lead -I've never known strength like it in any other breed. I guess it says a lot that even a bitch can work as a police dog and actually take an adult human male down easily. The GSDs looks incredibly clumsy in comparison LOL.

Have to say I have never had one follow me to the bathroom -on the other hand the Papillons do! I've never, ever managed to tire one out, no matter what -they can keep going and going, but they can learn to settle. If they get bored and haven't had enough exercise you're in for trouble! My Roxie opens cupboards and takes out frying pans and saucepans that she carries around when bored, we can't ever leave dishes in the sink as she empties it, she particularly likes dinner knives (recently had to buy a new set as she's managed to lose most) and she chewed the windowsill as a pup. Her mum Rio chewed a great big hole in our kitchen wall as a pup and up to about the age of one -three times. All the way through all the plaster etc into the brickwork.  And always when it rained! Boooring to stay indoors too much! On the other hand now when she's coming up to 5, you can take her anywhere -she's even stayed in a hotel, and she'd never dream of chewing something that isn't meant for her.

And for those that haven't seen this YouTube clip -it is UNMISSABLE. It's China, and it's working Malis -even for anyone not remotely interested in the breed it is really worth watching as it shows what these dogs can do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qre7e9z055M
I forgot to mention that when I am in the kitchen and Roxie (my smallest bitch) is outside, if I prepare the dogs food I often see her fly past the window -she jumps straight up from a standstill to the top of the window -that's well over 6 feet up! The owner of her littersister said she reckons her bitch was born with springs in her legs instead of bones.

> smaller/lighter really depends on how you see it.

It's relative my friendn always has had decent sized Dobes with the bitches around 34- 36kg and males around 38-40kg, so the Belgians are a lot lighter..

Wow...amazing video, Marianne!  You can really see why the Police are favouring them now over the GSD....such speed, agility and fearlessness!  Breathtaking.

Amazing, I've never seen dogs climbing trees and leaping down - just as agile as a cat!

The link wouldn't load for me.  But I have assisted and watched them in training and they are amazing!!
A colleague of mine wasn't that happy about having one but since he's been actually working him he's so impressed and can't praise the breed enough!

It's relative my friendn always has had decent sized Dobes with the bitches around 34- 36kg and males around 38-40kg, so the Belgians are a lot lighter..

That's not how I meant it Brainless -I meant they might be lighter but are they less strong? Doubt it very much.

Brilliant video clip. Have been watching alot of Malinois vids on YouTube but hadn't seen that one. Alot of the vids of Malis in other countries seem to have alot of black in the coat that I haven't seen in Malinois over here. Are they more likely to be working line dogs? (I know you said above that they are darker).

Really like the look of this Mali:

http://www.dalma.blog.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0O_7t7q01o

>I meant they might be lighter but are they less strong?

From what I have read it sounds like proportionately they are more muscled than other dogs? I read something saying that they are sensitive to anaesthetics due to the body muscle/fat ratio (similar to Greyhounds etc in that sense).

Yes that's working dogs -the elephant sized ears are a dead giveaway. <grin> They are often blacker as well. Malinois should have black overlay but not too much, quote from breed standard: Beyond the age of 18 months a washed out colour or colour too black undesirable.

There is a working type Malinois in my local rescue kennels - according to their site, she arrived in the summer aged 5 months and is still there.

She has the big ears and darker colouring - when I first saw her pic I thought she was a cross!

Amazing, I've never seen dogs climbing trees and leaping down - just as agile as a cat!

LucyDogs,
Many years ago back in the dark ages I had a Boxer brought up with cats. He used to climb the apple trees with the cats and then sit and cry because he couldn't get down from the high branches. My OH kept a ladder nearby for the frequent rescues.
So a Boxer can climb - but agile I don't think so !!!
ps we kept the ground under the trees soft with a thick layer of bark although he never fell.

I loved the clip of the Malinois what wonderful dogs

Love the video :) what a great insight into your breed Marianne, though too much of a dog for me :)

Well my Yankee George has been known to run up tree trunks that have partly fallen and are at a 45 degree angle and I thought that was quite impressive, but I've never seen anything like those Malis! :-)

> what a great insight into your breed Marianne, though too much of a dog for me

Ditto.. Managed to finally watch the YouTube on my pc and its amazing how agile they really are and the power behind them is immense, looking at them you'd not think they could take a grown man down, well yup the force and speed they can build up in a short time is amazing..

I love watching them train and think they are a wonderful breed, but i'm not sure that i'm enough for them.. lol
I'll leave them to Marianne and my colleagues..

You have to remember that the working dogs have been selected for the MOST working drive strength and size.

Here is a another tree climbing shot: http://www.elkhound-rescue.org.uk/  I understand that there was provocation of the squirrel variety.

Zarah - I took her for screening 2 years ago (almost to the day now) under the protect study, purely as precaution, she was showing some signs then - very, very slight rounding to the ventricles, and slow contractility.  She was diagnosed with severe hypothyroidism at the same time which is what they contributed the slowness to.

In June I took all 3 dobes back for free screening again, she was temp-diagnosed then and it was confirmed a month later.  Paige showed the same signs as Soli did 2 years back.  The study itself has stopped now - we have our last free appt in a month - but I will be getting Paige checked annually.  Soli's brother had sudden death from this, it is horrible :-(

Remy's shoulder did sort itself out - it took 6 months in all and he's still shedding the weight gained from it, nearly there now though!

Bless your boy, he sounds like Soli - she lost a toe to suspected osteosarcoma 3 years ago, that was when the osteoarthritis was diagnosed (it really looked that bad!).  It's now in all her feet, and her elbows are wrecked, as is her right knee.  Fortunately she's on trocoxil - been an absolute godsend and honestly a lifesaver, her behavioural issues would have meant she'd be gone by now if it were not for that as she'd have gotten too aggressive with the pain.  That streak means she'll go to the bridge long before she hits the very end of the DCM - she'll be too stressed and honestly, too aggressive by that point otherwise.

Back OT - there's a mali girl in a rescue near me, 10 months old - thought she was prolly working lines and she is very dark so guessing she is!  She's been sat there since June, poor girl's probably going too bananas to make a good impression :-(

Back OT - there's a mali girl in a rescue near me, 10 months old - thought she was prolly working lines and she is very dark so guessing she is!  She's been sat there since June, poor girl's probably going too bananas to make a good impression :-(

Might be worth asking the police to check her out for suitability.

> Might be worth asking the police to check her out for suitability.

There's a thought.  It's the same bitch that malwhit has spotted!

Oh is it? Close to home to me (about 10 miles). Pretty good idea who bred her. "Ideal family pet", will sell to anyone no questions asked. :( I know the police have picked stray Malis from Battersea and other rescues.

Worrying stuff - it doesn't take a lot of reading just to get the gist of the energy levels/drive, really.  I've barely touched the research side since I got interested in them 5 or 6 years ago and it's taken me till now to think that I *might* be able to handle one, possibly, in a while!