Hello everyone :o)

My name is Emma and I am new to this Forum.

Im hoping that someone can share some past experience or advice for my 9 month English Toy Terrier girl.

She was diagnosed with Demodectic Mange on 31st October 2010. She had a small patch of 'thinning' hair on her head on 17th September when I visited my Vets due to her having an accident. She had tried to jump onto a stall while we were out and had managed to knock it over, we think it must of landed on her (I feel awful about this). She ended up having an operation for a Tibial Tuberosity Avulsion on her left hind leg. (In english she managed to pull her growth plate off her knee?!best way I can describe it!)

Anyway, while at this consultation my Vet looked at her head and said he was not worried about it.

The thinning slowly got worse and the patch grew over her head and some small patches had started to form on her front legs. I thought that considering my Vet hadnt been worried about this I thought it could be down to stress. Anyway I decided to take her back as something was clearly not right. He took 2 skin scrapings, one from a front leg and one from her side.

The findings were Demodectic Mange (I believe Generalised). I am most annoyed as he then turned to me and said 'I told you she had mange back in September..' I am an animal lover through and through and there is no way that if someone told me my dog had mange I would leave it!!! Safe to say we had 'words'..

She was not suffering from any sort of itching or oozing lesions or anything like that.It was purely balding patches.

Sorry for this to drag on so much! And if your still reading  thanks and bear with me! :D

The Vet prescribed Advocate, 1 pipette and then 2 weeks later another pipette but nothing about any further skin scrapings? (yet I requested a copy of the notes and he has written in them that he advised me another skin scraping 2 weeks after last treatment??!!! As per before lie, this vet has issues with truth..He also 'failed' to send £250 worth of X-Rays to the specialist when she hurt her leg..They had to take more at my expense...Funny thing is when picking up the notes yesterday (I am changing vets needless to say..) the Vet Nurse advise me that 'Unfortunately these things happen' Referring to the fact that it seems to be the norm to not pass X-Rays over..)

So now to the present...Her hair has started thinning out again and Im 90% sure that the Demodex is back..She is not itching and no oozing or anything like that. Am currently in the process of 'vetting' Vets to find a decent one which I hope to of done by Thursday so I can get her booked in ASAP.

Please can anyone answer the following questions after that mammoth essay! lol:

1) I have not managed to find much material on using Advocate for the treatment of Demodex...I have read Aludex/Amitraz baths and also Ivermectin injections? (not really a ? I guess more a ask for opinions?!My brain is fizzling!)

2) From what I have read, it can be bought on by stress, is this correct?

3) Immune System..Is there anything I can do to help her? I have read it is to do with immature immune system or problems with the immune system?

4) Breeding..My original plan had been to show and breed her however I believe it is not recommended to breed from dogs who have suffered from Generalised Demodectic Mange?

Thank you so much for reading and any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks for bearing with me!

Emma :)

Advocate may need to be used monthly to keep it at bay (I know someone who used it for several years for this issue and if they were late then the skin got worse again)..

It is true to say ti is an immune system issue,a dn the mites only cause problems/proliferate when the immune system is not up to par, often during times of stress (so the accident puberty etc can have triggered it).

Until the immune system improves then all that can really be done ti so deal with symptoms, so the treatments will need to continue until/if the immune system starts to do it's job properly.

Your other points are correct as I understand it.

You should not breed from her and you should inform the breeder so that her parents are not mated with each other again, and not to partners that would produce similar combination of ancestors.

Last Jan my pup was very ill at 7 weeks, she recovered but the stress caused Demodex. When my vet gave her Alludex to bathe her I asked if it would possible to give Advocate as I felt this would be easier than the baths. She told me that with Advocate the mite would come back and it would take a lot longer to get rid of, for this reason she always prefers the Alludex as 6-8 weeks of baths and it is gone completely and more efficiently. This proved to be right and 7 weeks later my pup was completely clear and she has stayed this way since

Thank you for your answers. I didnt think the Advocate would be enought. Am worried that it is going to turn into a constant battle against it and she will end up very poorly as she is so small :(

I would advise you to contact your breeder and also to consult the ETT club. This is a known condition in the breed. You are right, it would be inadvisable to breed from her if the diagnosis is conclusive and yes, it may be stress/immune system related. The accident may have sparked the condition. However, it can appear in youngsters and then resolve never to appear again.

If you google the English Toy Terrier club website and look under health you will see information about the condition. I would advise you to talk to a representative of the breed as they may well have valuable advice. Given the experiences with your vet I would also seek a second opinion. The breed can also suffer from pattern baldness and seasonal alopecia- a good vet will know the difference.

Good luck

Thanks :)

I knew about the pattern baldness. I have looked on the ETT website and am going to contact someone.

I have contacted the breeder who said that they have never had issues with Demodex and said they would have all their stock tested... Im not sure how to approach them now its possibly back? Obviously need to get a definate answer from the Vets but just wondered how people go about approaching breeders about health problems in their puppy?

Hi,

You'll already know that localised demodex can show up in pups and then resolve. The fact that your breeder has said that they have never had an issue with demodex does not mean that it has never turned up in any dogs they have bred- it could be it has shown in pups but because it resolved without too much intervention they were never told.

Anyhow, as with so many immune system related problems no-one is quite sure how or why it becomes a problem for some dogs and not for others - I am not quite sure what test the breeder is talking about. All dogs carry the mites that cause demodex, it is when the population of mites overruns that a problem occurs and it is thought that this may be owing to a compromised or defective immune system. This immune problem may be relatively short lived and if the condition resolves by itself such a dog might be used for breeding. Repeated attacks that do  not resolve without medical intervention may well point to some inherited problem with the immune system and so the advice is not to breed from such a dog- but the hereditary element is not conclusive.

A good breeder should be concerned and happy to help you in any way they can, not defensive. If the facts are that your dog has a second attack of demodex, those are the facts, it cannot be helped and a good breeder would want to know. Conditions like this are complex and not properly understood, so it is not a case of pointing fingers at the breeder, you are simply calling on their experience of the breed and a known condition that affects that breed. If they cannot offer useful advice I am sure they can point you to others in the club who will. As you see, the club website seeks to inform on health issues that affect the breed. Please do not hesitate to go back to your breeder for advice and to another vet for a second opinion.