Can I ask for some opinion please?  I apologise for the length :)

We recently had an incident in the village where an off lead dog caused a considerable nuisance.  I heard about this from one of the people present and some negative feeling between the parties involved has resulted in telephone calls to the council, to the police and to the dog warden.  Several of the individuals concerned now wish to see dogs kept on the lead on the public highway in the centre of the village.

In one of those co-incidences of timing it seems that that under the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 our county council is examining all its current dog control legislation.  From the research I've done so far I have found a few councils that have already undertaken this review and implemented new 'Dogs on Leads' orders to cover 'each and every length of road (which term includes pavements or footways) within the administrative area of the council except public footpaths and bridleways...' there then follows a list of specific exclusion zones to cover cemetaries, parks, allotments and sports fields.  I've quoted one example from Weymouth and Portland, but there are others.

I know this topic has come up before and I'm sure many of you think that these orders are law across the county but it appears to be down to individual councils.  As a dog owner do you think dogs should be kept on a lead on roads - as defined above?  Before this gets to our Parish Council I'm keen to understand whether this order would be welcomed by responsible dog owners.  Thanks for your help xx

> As a dog owner do you think dogs should be kept on a lead on roads - as defined above?

I thought all dogs had to be on leads on pavements and footways beside public highways anyway?

i think dogs should be onlead by roads, it only takes a second for the dog to get run over.
when i was driving home one day i was following a pickuptruck thing (the ones farmers drive) and there was a border collie sitting in the back. well as we went down the road a farm was comming up on the other side, as we got allmost level with the gate the collie jumped out of the truck thing and ran across the road narrowley missing a car and up to the farm. I know it wasnt walking but it just shows how easerly it can happen. im in a semmi rual area and it seems common for some people to leave there dogs wonder lose and ive allomst hit a few dogs in my car, thank god each time ended ok but who knows next time.

As a dog owner, and a driver, I hate to see dogs loose near roads. I think it is dangerous as no matter how well behaved a dog is it only takes a split second for it to bolt across the road. Mine are only off leads on my own property behind a large closed gate, or in the fields away from any road. Or, on a very rare occasion, on the beach. I would never dream of walking them off lead near a road.

Section 27 Road Traffic Act 1988 - level 1 fine - summary offence

It is an offence for a person to cause or permit a dog to be on a designated (by an order of the local authority) road without the dog being held on a lead except :-

* dogs proved to be kept for driving or tending sheep or cattle in the course of a trade or business,
* dogs proved to have been in use under proper control for sporting purposes.
----------

So perhaps the roads in your village aren't designated roads, and the local authority is going to designate them so they then fall under the Road Traffic Act above.

> As a dog owner, and a driver, I hate to see dogs loose near roads. I think it is dangerous as no matter how well behaved a dog is it only takes a split second for it to bolt across the road. Mine are only off leads on my own property behind a large closed gate, or in the fields away from any road. Or, on a very rare occasion, on the beach. I would never dream of walking them off lead near a road.

same as above ^^^^^

As a dog owner, I wouldn't dream of having my dogs off lead near a road. I value them too highly to run the risk of something happening to them.

As a driver, I find it unnerving and distracting to see a dog off lead by a road. I think it's incredible selfish and thoughtless not to have a dog on lead next to a road.

My husband is a HGV driver..he drives at night.
Last year a beautiful goldie shot out from behind a car and unfortunately hubby hit and ran over him very sadly killing him. The owner was with him but didnt have the dog on a lead. My husband was devastated at killing this dog, but the owner went beserk and threatened to take hubby to court etc.  I agree all dogs should be on the lead when on footpaths and near roads...ours always are.

toffeecrisp
How awful for your hubby.  It must be bad enough for him without the attitude of the owner - who was really the person responsible for this incident.

> 'Dogs on Leads' orders to cover 'each and every length of road (which term includes pavements or footways) within the administrative area of the council except public footpaths and bridleways...'

As OP's I would not dream of allowing my dog off lead anywhere near a road, it only takes one moment of distraction whether it be me or the dog, also I always attempt to have him/them on the inside. Be it law or common sense have no problem with such orders, would even question the length of lead 2 metres, 2 metres can be along way into the road. Like those awful extending leads where a dog comes round the corner attached to an idiot ten feet behind.

> would even question the length of lead 2 metres, 2 metres can be along way into the road. Like those awful extending leads where a dog come round the corner attached to an idiot ten feet behind.

I'd guess those plastic monstrosities would be banned for use on public roads then, if an order of 2 metres was introduced, as their range is far greater? I wonder if the 2 metres range has been specifically aimed at extending leads?

A ban on use of extending leads on public highways would sit very happily with me! Stick it in yer pocket and save it for the park!

>So perhaps the roads in your village aren't designated roads, and the local authority is going to designate them so they then fall under the Road Traffic Act above.

Changes to the Road Traffic Act require police approval.  Dog control orders are easier for Local Authorities to obtain and they are implementing them under The Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005.  Currently we have no dog order covering roads in our local authority area at all but other counties/areas are bringing them in as a result of their reviews

The key element in your quote is 'designated (by an order of the local authority) road' and, once you start researching your local authority, you'll find that few roads are actually designated.  It's worth having a look to see what applies in your area - Google your local council name and dog control orders  as there are few blanket rules...

Goodness... thank you - I had no idea it was as piecemeal and regional as that. Can't find much about my local area online, but I may well ask a local councillor about it. It was very simple where I last lived - no dogs offlead on any roads and strict poo laws.

By the way, if Dog Poo Laws are already in situ, does that imply there is a dog control order in that area? As this town has them.

Will have to ring, I.O.W. web site just refers to dogs & beaches or dog warden

>By the way, if Dog Poo Laws are already in situ, does that imply there is a dog control order in that area?

Yes but it's an order regarding fouling and the land must be specified.  You are in Somerset aren't you?  Example: THE FOULING OF LAND BY DOGS (WEST SOMERSET) ORDER 2010 ... Land designated by description;  Schedule 1 applies to all land in the West Somerset Council area which is open to air
and to which the public are entitled or permitted to have access (with or without payment), including but not limited to, parks, public open spaces and highways

West Somerset also has the following order: The Dogs on Leads by Direction (West Somerset) Order 2010.  This means that it is an offence not to put your dog on a lead if directed to do so by an authorised officer of the Authority.  However their actual  Dogs on Leads order relate only to specific locations (Minehead Beach for one) and does not include any roads.

It's quite interesting once you start looking.  The KC has a page on Dog Control consultations which is worth keeping an eye on as DC orders are perceived to inhibit the rights of dog owners.  Whilst many of us support dog fouling or dogs on leads orders we might be less comfortable to find ourselves excluded from all public parks, or favourite forest walks.

Lacy

IOW Dogs on Leads Order May 2008 - applies to "Each and every length of road including adjacent pavements and verges, within the administrative area of the Isle of Wight Council"

I really like the way your council lists dog friendly areas too :)  Most are usually too busy telling you where you aren't welcome!

Many thanks.

>  You are in Somerset aren't you?

I am yes... but googling my local council hasn't come up with anything... or the parish council either (I am not in a town).  I find it hard to believe the Road Traffic Act doesn't cover ALL public highways ALL over the country.

I definitely knew where I stood re my last location. Now it seems to have got a lot more complicated, and not necessarily in my or my dog's favour.

> I thought all dogs had to be on leads on pavements and footways beside public highways anyway?

That was my understanding too, and the notices around here warn of up to £1000 fines.  It is one of my pet hates people walking their dogs off lead near the roads.

Hi Barbara, Bristol City Council introduced their new Dog Control Orders in 2007.  Interestingly they have chosen to apply it across the entire administrative area and list the exceptions, rather than the other way around which seems more usual

How awful toffeecrisp, and it was totally the owner's fault not your hubby. :(

the owner went beserk and threatened to take hubby to court etc.

Silly woman, her negligence killed her dog, no-one else. Hope your hubby is over the shock.

I came from a quiet village in my childhood it was the norm for dogs to walk around off lead. Our RC's were hardly ever on lead, but today even a quiet village is not a quiet village IMO, there are 100% more houses, cars, people, dogs, cats, quiet country lanes can have speeding cars and bicycles just appear, so anything less than rural countryside, parkland etc with no roads, it's a risk to not have a dog on lead.

Common sense should protect your dog, no matter how obedient.

Hubby is ok now, but was very shocked at the time...he did tell his boss just in case there was some comeback and also informed the police, but they said it was the owners fault aswell, they asked to see his tacograph to see what speed he was doing ...he was under the speed limit as it was an area where housing is so he went that bit slower!!
As far as I know there the owner never did anything about it.

I hate to see people walking thier dogs along roads off lead. No road is safe and every dog should be on a lead. I hit and killed a dog (Mongrel) years ago. I was driving at less than 30 in a built up area at dusk and was passing a hedge bordering a playing field. as I got to the end of the hedge to where a footpath joined the pavement at right angles from behind the hedge the dog ran straight of the footpath and hit the car and I never even saw it as it ran into the side of the car and the back wheel ran over it. Th owner stood shouting at me while I sat in the middle of the road cuddling her dying dog! and crying. She threatened me with legal action but if I remember right I threatened her with a counrter claim for emotional distress..and she backed off.
It effected me for a long long time and even now I slow down when passing dogs on the pavement. I never ever wish to have that happen again. Flexi-leads are the bain of my life in the hands of fools who do not know how to use them. On a road/pavement they should be short...and on LOCK.... OH and I were in Wales a few moths ago and driving alon a sraight bit of road watched in horror as an elderly woman with a small dog on a flexi stopped to look at a notice and the dog walked right out infront of a car on the road...she never even noticed it but luckily the driver was able to stop...my heart was in my mouth the driver stopped as did we and her really shouted at her, we did just speke to her once he drove of to make sure she was OK and she was upset but gratefull her dog was safe. She will never do that again!
Aileen.

But the rule/law about dogs on leads has been around 'forever' not just since the control orders of 2007.

>But the rule/law about dogs on leads has been around 'forever' not just since the control orders of 2007.

Well I thought so too but I just cannot find it anywhere in law.    As I mentioned in my OP, this subject came up as a result of a dispute between residents in the village about a loose dog.  Both the police and the dog warden have confirmed that the dogs owners were not breaking the law by walking their dog off lead on the village roads. The requirement to have dogs on a lead is in the Road Traffic Act but only on designated roads, which have to be designated by the Local Authority and many aren't (or weren't until they started to use the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 to implement Dog Control Orders).  Urban areas have always had tighter controls for dogs but even these were often local authority byelaws which have since been replaced by dog control orders.

I'm not supporting either side of the debate in an official capacity - I've not heard the facts from both sides either - but I am surprised to find that the injured party in this case has no support in law to ask that dogs are kept on a lead.  It doesn't seem quite right does it?

Typical of anyone of my age I have forgotten what happened this morning but I have a vague feeling that when I was learning to drive in 1960 it was in the Highway code.

Found it as it is now:

56

Dogs. Do not let a dog out on the road on its own. Keep it on a short lead when walking on the pavement, road or path shared with cyclists or horse riders.

That's useful back up info Nova, thank you

It might not help the individuals concerned but does give some additional weight to the argument that it is a safety issue to have dogs off lead on the road.

...government spokesmen have reiterated the fact that the Highway Code is advisory, rather than legally enforceable
A Dept of transport spokesman also said "It is worth remembering that the Highway Code provides advice on the safest way of using a road; it is not a legal requirement."

I must admit I rather assumed the Highway Code was based on law...

I also assumed the Highway Code was based on law.  I wouldn't dream of taking my lot out near a road without their leads, although there is a man in the village that never uses a lead and he has to cross a busy main road most of the time.

>Can't find much about my local area online

I'm currently checking Dog Control orders and policies in the South West

MsTemeraire if you are in South Somerset your District Council will soon be adopting new powers that apply to dog owners.  These will be up for public consultation later in the year but aren't expected to include a Dogs on Leads order.  You can see more information here

This has been going on for some time and if you are signed up to receive the KC news emails you would see these regularly featured and KCDog is the group you need to get in contact with. Talking to a legal chap I was told that if a county wide control order was put in place (which they have the power to do) saying you can only have two dogs with you at any one time including in your car then you would if travelling through that county have to drive around it or leave one or more dogs at home... makes you wonder how people taking more than one dog to a show would manage.

> MsTemeraire if you are in South Somerset your District Council will soon be adopting new powers that apply to dog owners.

Thank you dogs a babe - I'm in Mendip, and can't find anything on their website about DCOs.

I thought all dogs had to be on leads on pavements and footways beside public highways anyway?

So did I, under the Road Traffic Acts.

It does come under the RTA 88
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/27

Normally a designated road is one which comes under the local authority, so in general most roads we drive on, ones which are tended by the local authority and ones which have speed limits etc.. So basically roads in which the public have access to, not private roads.

HTH

Well then to all intents it covers all public roads, and this means dogs have to be kept on lead on them.

Pretty much Brainless, that does sum it up :-)..

Sue - have a look at this...

Road Traffic act 1988
27 Control of dogs on roads.

(1)A person who causes or permits a dog to be on a designated road without the dog being held on a lead is guilty of an offence.

(2)In this section "designated road" means a length of road specified by an order in that behalf of the local authority in whose area the length of road is situated.

I've highlighted in bold the questionable bit which seems to support the idea that there must be a dog control order in force on that particular named road (or all roads in the administrative area of the local authority) for this to be legally enforcable.  Which is pretty much what the police told the injured party and the witnesses in the event that started all this.

Interesting. As my colleagues who i've questionned this to them before about 'designated roads' they've quoted what i've already put on here. Then again maybe thats around Sussex?
I'll ask tomorrow about that one and see what they say if its something which is set up by the local authority or if its stands by what is around here.. If that makes sense. :-)

Also if a dog causes an accident by running into a road then the owner/carer is then liable for the traffic collision.

>Then again maybe thats around Sussex?

I think Brighton and Hove City Council have a dog control order as follows:
Keeping dogs on a lead:     * on all streets, roads and pavements

So in that administrative area then all roads are 'designated'.  I haven't checked all other Sussex Councils but I know that Mid Sussex DC have specifically not asked for any 'Dogs on Leads' orders but say: there may be certain times where it would be more appropriate for a dog to be on a lead such as along a highway.

Honestly, it's a right buggers muddle! 

Never fails to amaze me the amount of people who let their dog off lead next to roads, there's some idiot jogger who runs through our village right on the busy road with his Lab trotting behind, no lead at all, the pavement is very very narrow, apart from the fact his dog is at risk he could cause a very serious accident, if I see him again this summer I think I'll be reporting him.

Slightly off topic as it wasn't by a road but last week me and mum were walking the dogs and a lady was letting her dogs out to mess and she as she was clearing it up the dog ran at full speed up to us running into one of our boys, I asked her to get the dog and she ignored me and let her dog do whatever it wanted.

The thing is it was in a built up housing estate and Id never in a million years let ours off in the estate what in- case it was a old woman or small child that dog ran into and knocked them over, I was fuming. She is the most irresponsible person I know.. silly woman she even lets it off in her front garden where it lunges for anybody that walks past its really very unpleasant as it a big GSD its made me jump many times.

To note all dogs of any size or breed should be on the lead in build up areas and by roads no matter how well behaved.