I've just taken my maiden bitch to be mated, and used the qualitative premate tests to help the process, or so I thought...

I tested day 7 (due to bank holiday) and it came back as dark blue, negative
Tested day 11, came back "C2" or light blue I think, so not ready
Tested day 13, again came back as above and 'not ready'.

However, she has been standing and putting her tail over since about day 10-11.

Because I didn't want to run the risk of missing, and because I had a gut feeling that she was 'ready', I took her to the stud dog today, day 13, and she stood willingly and mated, with 15 minute tie.

So, I guess my questions are: how reliable are these tests?  would she have allowed mating if she wasn't ready?  is it too early? or is she just not ovulating this season, but showing all the other signs?

I will take her back to try again on day 15, but that will be it then (I can't see the stud owner allowing us a third mating, so just hope it isn't too early)

I'd be really grateful for any thoughts, thanks.

I recently had a bitch miss when I had had bloods done as well as swabs (just an experiment on my part to see if they agreed).  Bloods said mate Sun/Mon, swabs from Monday onwards.  Took til Tues to get a tie.

She had been standing several days prior to this - spoke to lady who did swabs for me and she said mate her next time as soon as she starts to stand - so perhaps they are a waste of money?

A few years ago I mated a bitch where the studs owner liked you to visit day 12 & 14 - she didn't take.  On a third and final attempt I used bloods - she didn't ovulate until day 17 - and we had a litter of 9.

Every bitch is different, as often are their seasons.  Many will have had good results with tests and I'm sure others have failed or just use their own judgement as to when she's ready.

If you get a good tie on day 15 I would think you should be ok - studs owner may let you return if she is still flagging - no harm in asking.

Good luck

In answer to your question of would she stand and allowed a mating if she wasn't ready - yes, she could have done :)

Is there a reason why the stud dog owner wouldn't allow you to go back again, especially if the blood tests tell you that she will be ovulating late?

Some bitches will stand before they are capable of conceiving (just before ovulation) it takes a further two days after ovulation for the eggs to be fertiliseable.

Some bitches won't stand or some stud dogs won't mate a bitch until this stage.

The in house colour change premate test kits are not as accurate as the quanitive ones done in a lab that come back with the exact concentrations of hormones, but give or take a day should be close enough for natural service.

I would certainly want the bitch mated two days after the first mating and perhaps two days after that to be sure she had gone over.

My youngest bitch was mated on the perfect day according to the progesterone test and missed.  My dog at home (not experienced) was signalling she was ready about 4 days earlier.  I think, in hindsight (wonderful thing) I should have follow what my lad said.  He "agreed" with the blood test on my previous bitch and she took and had 9 puppies.  She was mated however a day before ovulation as stood happily for the dog (bit of a trollop).  She was also mated 48 hours later therefore a day after ovulation. So from my last couple of experiences I have had one success and one miss but it would seem my lad was probably right on both occasions, the blood test perhaps only on one.  If, however you don't have an entire boy to go by or a reliable indicator in the stud dog then the blood test (or ovulation test) may be all you have to go by especially if your girl doesn't give much in the way of flagging.  Like everything it comes down to the indvidual.

Which test kit did you use the quantitative results done by lab or the in-house roughly accurate ones done at the surgery?

Bitches will still occasionally miss regardless.

Thanks guys, I used the qualitative 'Target' ovulation test, done in-house by the vets.

However, I buckled on Friday (the day after the first mating) and sent a blood test off to IDEX.  Got the reading back today, Saturday, and it was 14.92 (taken Friday 4pm), and they said she was just ovulating and to take her for mating on Sunday, which is what I will do. So, fingers crossed for tomorrow.  It would seem that this quantative reading totally backs up the qualitative premate tests, and that what she did on Thursday was rather premature and possibly recreational!!!!....  what a floosy!

Idexx progesterone blood test Brainless.  Just seems strange that my lad "agreed" on one test and not on another  which is when she missed, coincidence maybe, who knows?

Kennelmaiden, as Brainless says I would mate your bitch every other day until she no longer stands. 

Thanks, I don't think the stud owner is going to let us have another mating after this one, seeing as we have already had one with a good tie.  He is quite 'old school' and thinks that all these tests are rubbish, and that the bitch/dog knows..... So, I just hope we can make tomorrow's mating count, and that she stands this time again.

It is 'Old School' to mate until the bitch is no longer standing, as that tells him she has gone over.

i allow my stud to mate from day 9 if bitch is standing and allow 3 matings every other day. he has never missed. i never use tests and neither do the people who bring their bitches to me. just lucky i guess

> what she did on Thursday was rather premature and possibly recreational

ROFL!!

One of my girls flags from day 3 but is most definitely not ready until days 8-10.

Have to say that when I have visiting bitches for my boys, as long as the bitch is receptive, I don't put a limit on the ties.  I feel that it is my duty to give the bitch owner the best chance of getting a wanted litter.

My girl stands and flags from day 4..she is an absolute tramp!!!

i have a girl that stands at our boy with her tail up and shes been spayed 1 year but still does this around the time she would of been in season ,shes a hussy LOL

Good luck today.  Try and ask for another mating, it won't hurt to try.

My girl is behaving very differently this time, she being a bit of a tart.  Normally she's a little princess and tell them off.  This time she flirting and even letting him lick her.  They've been playing also.  Tecnically she's on day 5-6 buti suppose she could be little longer.  The stud owner is letting me use her boy as long as my girl will let him.  Lucky me.

Thanks everyone.  We had another mating today with 20 min tie, so hopefully that has done the trick.  Fingers crossed, and a loooooong 9 week wait now.

Good news. From my limited experience it's been suggested that a longer tie might mean she is going over, so going from 15 to 20 minutes is hopefully a sign that you've caught her ok. Fingers crossed!

LucyDogs - TBH, both ties were pretty much the same time (15-20 mins).  It was hard to be precise as I was trying to sneak a peak at my watch whilst holding her head!! (and didn't want the stud owner to think I was rude or something by clock watching!!! LOL)

Lol, you wouldn't be rude.  When my girl tied before, the stud owner timed it every time.  Don't know the importance if it though.  Maybe that's how long it takes to get all three stages once tied.

If Lucy's idea's right, it would fit with my experience.

similar thing with my girl - bloods still saying not ready,but we took her for a mating yesterday (day 14 ) and had a 50 min (back braking for me!) tie - took bloods to be certain today - but still say not ready  .... now day 15 - so do we keep testing or go back tomorrow as planned?

piratebear - I think you will get a complete variety of answers from here, as we all seem to have had different scenarios (some with success and some with failure...).  I only re-tested for my own sanity and to reassure myself that we had the timings roughly right, and a chance of success.  Your timings sound good to me, and you had a veeeeeerrrry long tie!!!

Incidentally, I watched a programme last night again, which I recorded last year, about Puppies in the Womb.  It goes through the cycle of conception to birth in 3 breeds, plus the wolf.  And on there it said that the sperm from 'early matings' (pre-ovulation) go to where they are going to meet the eggs and attach themselves to the side (of whatever?!) and wait while the eggs mature, and then they go in.  It seemed to think the sperm can last for up to a week like this....  it also said that bitches standing too early was possibly a throwback from wolf/ancient days when they wanted to increase their chances of getting pups, by getting as many males as possible to compete for them, and mate with them. 

Someone said to me, early is better than too late!...

Thanks Kennel Maiden - you know what its like - all the pacing back and forth! now hubby in convinced she must be infertile! I am trying to stay positive - especially as its a 450 mile round trip to stud . . .she was such a good girl yesterday too for a maiden bitch bless her heart!

What were her levels?

If low maybe test wvery other to three days until a closer reading.  They're not cheap to keep doing.

they wont give levels - just a 'not ready yet - but still rising'  . . .grrr ... now on day 15 , started flagging yesterday,so i think we are close.She is obviously just a tart as she stood for him yesterday with a 50 min tie even though she wasnt ready

I read somewhere..not sure if it was here....that if the bitch stands and is mated early in her season then the chances of more girl pups increases.......is this true or just old wives tales?
Last year my girl my girl was mated on day 9..and she was more than ready and she went on to have 3 beautiful bitches...maybe just a coincidence!

i read that on here too my girl stud and day of ovulation 4 girls 5 boys xx

I might get girl then, lol.

She's standing already and flirting, not to mention the hankp panky.  She seems to put up resistence when he get close, I assume to netering.  Never seen her like this before, well not witha male.

Fingers crossed your mating takes.

Can't understand why they're not telling you the results, i knew on every test.  Haven't tested this time but might just to get the whelping date.  Ask them for the levels and watch you girl, you might be able tell next time without them.  When i used them last year, it was 16 0r 19 n/mol (?) and she acted differently then also.