How many of you experienced breeders use CHV vaccines?  I know it is considered a good thing to do, but is it really necessary or is it overkill?

Can anyone give me a good link to read about it?

Thanks!

Never used it.  Sorry. :)

Having lost a litter of 10 to CHV would never breed without using it. Know lots of people who use it every time but others who have never used it.

Never used ti so far, as never had an issue.  The dog I used in USA had only sired two litters previously and was tested for Brucellosis and any other infection as routine when I booked him.

Males in our breed don't get used a lot (and obviously bitches don't have that many litters either) so probably less of an issue re STD's.

Try this link, it's a transcription of a Seminar given by a Merial Vet
http://www.collieclubofnsw.com/CanineHerpesVirusSeminar.pdf

We use it every time and wouldn't not use it.

Is it an STD though, Brainless?  From the little reading I've done, it sounds like it is an infection which can be picked up in many different ways from other dogs, not an STD... 

Will read that link, thanks.  I think we will do it.

You are right, it is not solely a STD.

It's a virus which is transmitted in similar ways as Kennel Cough. Therefore any bitch can be unfortunate and contract CHV1. The really dire consequenses of the disease, when a whole litter is lost, happens when the bitch becomes infected during the second half of pregnancy. She will then not have time to develop enough immunity to pass on to protect her puppies. Plus she infects the puppies as they are born by licking and breathing infected nasal spray on them.

Well I don't vaccinate for KC either, so will bumble along nicely unless I have reason to think I have a chronic infection with my stock.

There are Pro's and Cons to vaccination and I prefer not to do them unless the resulting illness is likely to be life threatening to my dogs (sad as loosing a pregnancy or newborn litter is it is not generally a high risk).

I think I've answered something on these lines on another thread, but I'm going to give my same opinion on this one too! I have a lot of breeding experience - helping to raise 11 litters, however, I have only bred 1 of those litters myself, in my own rights as a 'breeder'. So whether I count in your 'experienced breeders' criteria I don't know. However, I did use the CHV vaccine on my bitch. I have no idea whether she has been exposed to CHV, which as someone else has pointed out is not solely a STD (that is just a very minor way of transmission from what I can make out), it is of a similar form to kennel cough ... and evidence implies that the vast majority of dogs are thought to have been exposed to CHV at some point in their lives.

Something on the lines of a kennel cough type infection caused catastrophic results to my breeding programme the previous year. So when my bitch was mated in 2010 she had the CHV vaccine to ensure that I was doing everything possible to ensure things went well. She went on to produce an extremely fit and healthy litter of 6 pups.

Interestingly, an experienced breeder (of over 40 years experience) also experienced the same infection throughout her dogs the previous year as mine had. She did not give her bitch who also whelped in 2010 the CHV jab as she didn't feel it necessary and she didn't have a rosy birthing. She lost 2 of the pups from her litter, in the first few days. This is the first time she has ever experienced loss of pups, at any time in all those years.

I have absolutely no scientific proof/evidence that this was due to CHV but it is sufficient proof to me that I did absolutely the right thing in safeguarding my litter. We have no experience of CHV, that we know of, in my lines, there have been no fading puppies, but as said, events dictated to me that I would be bonkers not to use this injection. I have another bitch due to be mated this year, she will also be having the CHV jab.

For me I don't have any answers about what has happened, but I do have the ability to safeguard against things going wrong. From what I have read there are no adverse affects to this vaccination.

I do not routinely inject chemicals into my dogs.  If you do a search on this site (in the google box) you will find a lot of information ... this article is particularly good and by someone who has a lot of knowledge on the subject: http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/71220.html

I have to say that I am planning on giving this jab - on the 'better safe than sorry' theory as I have read lots about bitches who have shown no signs becoming 'Stressed' during whelping and developing symptoms of CH and infecting the pups - a breeder said to me its just like humans getting cold sores when they are stressed - we all have it lying 'Dormant' so I dont want to take the risk of this flaring up during a stressful time for my bitch

I have now used the vaccine for about 5 years and will not have a litter without using it.  A well respected kennel in our breed decided not to use it last year and lost the whole litter.
It is not expensive, has no side effects that I know of - so better to be safe than sorry.

When I enquired about possibly using it there seemed to be national problems with supply.

I am still of the opinion that nature has designed our animals to give birth and they should not normally require that much intervention to do so safely.

I have had only the odd stillborn/non thriving pup and one particular litter in 2003 I ended up loosing 4 out of 8 puppies, but all the litters since (8 litters) have been fine, with only two pups lost (one born dead).

It is more than about losing puppies, having now read the literature.  When dams are given the vaccine, it results in larger litter sizes and heavier pups.

As for animals not requiring much intervention to give birth - I agree, in general - when it's about physical breed characteristics and unassisted matings etc.  However, if a mum in whelp got into difficulties, would we not call the vet because we believe that nature should take its course and not require intervention?  As soon as we deliberately select a stud over the crossbreed next door, we are interfering with nature.

Again I have had no issue with litter size ( personally I would hate to have very large litters and am more than happy with the 4 - 7 I usually get) or weight of pups, in fact the pups I have had in the last few years have been heavy for the breed averaging 14 - 18 ounces where the average is 10 - 12 oz.

I do intervene in as much as I worm my bitches in the last 3 weeks of pregnancy and suspect the good weight may be partly due to this and the fact that I have gone generations with bitches who will have very low levels of encysted worm larva to pass on as well as getting rid of it.

Just not happy with the idea of vaccinating against something that may or may not be an issue.

One could argue that by having litters and bitches that do well despite possible challenge by this virus means the ones that survive are fitter?

I don't say I would never use it if I felt I was getting into issues with bitches loosing litters poorly pups etc, but that is not the case.

It's a little like the Antibiotic argument being given as a preventative, ditto flea treatments etc

Hi i use eurican vaccine for CHV as my bitch just kept having phantoms after we had mated her , used differant stud dogs . so we was told by breeder about website   www uk.merial.com have look and read there site we use it as it states & litter pups great hope it helps  

One could argue that by having litters and bitches that do well despite possible challenge by this virus means the ones that survive are fitter?

Its not a vaccine that I would personally consider using either. If I had reason to believe there was a problem in any of my Girls then I'd be questioning my own husbandry methods and working on the restoration of natural health and a strong immune system. It genuinely does worry me that the overuse of some veterinary drugs and vaccines is building up health problems for generations to come...

http://www.canine-health-concern.org.uk/Newsletterarticles.html#Vaccinemutations

Vaccines ALWAYS cause DNA mutations by Dr Patricia Jordan
 
"I would caution that when litters are vaccinated, vaccines ALWAYS cause mutations of the DNA.  Outside of doing our duty to adopt the overproduced animals in the world, we should only obtain naturally reared dogs - non-vaccinated and raw food fed.  They are the ones with the cleanest genetics.  It takes seven generations of no vaccines to clean up the gene pool.  Naturally rearing breeders are the ones that are hopefully maintaining our good genetics - not the puppy mills or even breeders who vaccinate. Vaccine damage is inheritable, passing mutations along to future generations."

By getting into bed with the vaccine industry, the Kennel Club - in our opinion, supported by the scientific evidence - is in danger of perpetuating the ill health of pedigree dogs, and a lucrative veterinary 'healthcare' industry.  It will be interesting to see whether mandatory vaccination is a clause within the Kennel Club's Accredited Breeder's Scheme. 

Of course, Canine Health Concern could always apply to the government to grant us statutory powers to enforce stringent rules and regulations to stop the vaccine industry from inflicting vaccine-induced death and disease on  our dogs . . . but, then, the government also relies upon funding from the Pharma industry.

Power begets power, and anyone who truly loves their dog has the moral responsibility to step into their own power and stop playing victim to those who seek to exploit them.  Our dogs deserve no less.  It's time for dog owners to get a spine and use their brains, and stop relying upon those with the power to make their choices for them.  

>vaccines ALWAYS cause mutations of the DNA. 

LOL! That must be one of the most ridiculous pseudo-science statements I've ever read! Are you telling me people actually believe it?