I have a large breed litter (adult weight 60kg) at 7 days old. There were 13 in the litter but last 2 were sleeping at birth leaving 11. I noticed after 3 hrs that the 3rd born wasn't suckling (even though he had had a few suckles just after birth) and that he was very weak and tongue/gums were quite pale. I expressed mums milk and started to syringe feed him every 15mins as he was so weak he could only take a few drops. Within 24hrs he has regained a bit of strength and colour was fine and started on the bottle. He is now being fed either when he stirs or every half hr, which ever comes first. He is a very fiesty little boy when he wakes up but tires out very quickly and is still, today, only able to take roughly an eighth to a quarter of an ounce per feed. He is only gaining between 10 and 15 grams a day and today weighed 430g whereas most of the others are around 750g and 2 pups are 850g. He can suckle on the bottle ok but cannot latch onto mum. Even when I have removed the other pups so that they don't knock him off and placed his mouth over the teat he has 1 or 2 sucks and falls off and can never find his way back to it. I checked him at birth and the vet checked him at day 3 and there is no sign of a cleft palate. Ideally I want him xrayed but there is no chance he would cope with the sedation although my gut feeling is that something is definately wrong/malformed. It feels like I am pouring water into a bucket with a big hole in it and maybe I am being selfish or too emotional with him and I should let him go but he is such a little character for a few minutes after he wakes up before he gets too tired to move, and Ive completely fallen for him. He is fighting with everything he has and I don't want to give up on him but somebody said to me today that nature is brutal and it is the survival of the fittest and I should let him go. I keep thinking that although he can't suckle off mum, he can lap and once I start weaning, (if he makes it) then he may flourish.

Experiences, advice and honesty please.

I have been breeding for ten years and have tried to save pups in the past. This year however I let a pup go.

In the past I have fed a pup for 10 days before accepting that she would never survive and having her put to sleep. Sounds very much like your situation and I so wanted her to make it as we all do but in my heart I knew she was dying slowly.

This year however I have made the decision very quickly for pups. I had a litter with fading puppy and within hours I made the decision to accept the death of these pups, broke my heart but I knew it was just prolonging it to keep them going. In another litter a pup was 5 days old and started screaming very much in pain and I fed him and cuddled him but I knew something was very wrong and I made peace with the situation and called the vet knowing that I was going to ask the vet to put him to sleep. I think i accepted the situation easily as I was still numb from his mum dying giving birth 5 days before. The vet came and said u could give him a chance with antibiotics but I doubt they would help. I looked at the vet and said please let him go. This decision I think I made as I had no mum for the litter and was totally on my own with 12 puppies to feed. I knew in my heart I didnt have the time to care for a sick puppy who was never going to make it. It surprised me my decision but I still know it was the best thing for my baby.

Only u can make the decision as u have to live with that. What I have found is that I always have to name the pup before they go not sure why I just believe every baby needs a name to go to the bridge with. All breeders hate losing a baby but I think the more experience u have the easier it is to live with your decision.
Good luck with your baby.

i too got a girl to 7days old :( she wouldnt suckle from mum then stopped suckling at all i drove to the vets at 3am in the morning with her knowing i wasnt going to see her again the vet kept her in over night to see what the problem was i got that phone call at 9am to say there was nothing thay could do and she was put to sleep we called her angel and was burried with pups that didnt make it at birth ,we have a wooden bridge at the top of our garden and lots of flowers there ,it our own rainbow bridge.
go with what your heart is saying only you know how this baby is doing ((((hugs)))) its heart breaking to have to decide xxxxx

Hang on in there!!  My runt was the same.  He kind of licked the nipple rather than sucking so wasn't getting the suction not to get pushed off by his bigger siblings.  I took over and topped him up after all the rest had a feed so he was still getting the fight for food but getting nourishment he so needed too.  I used a normal baby bottle as it was a lot more realistic compared to my girls teats and he would suck away.  So much so that as soon as he could 'smell' me, he would root about for the teat!
He is now 31/2 weeks as I've started weaning which is going great.  He is tiny compared to the rest but he is still thriving.

Never gets any easier - the decision to let one go after youve tried everything.

I have kept several going over many years, but now seemed to have realised that if they dont have a hold of life - no matter what you do -they are not meant to be.

In a situation where the puppy is actually trying to survive would give a course of antibiotics and administer  subcutaneous fluids. The fluids must be given very, very gently and warmed to body temperature as the shock alone can be enough to kill if not done carefully.
If by the end of the third day there is no sign of improvement I would feel I had done everything possible and then let the puppy go. If the dam should be distressed by the presence of a sick puppy I would let it go much more quickly.

Like the other poster I have persevered for 11 days with no gains at all before letting go.

I think you have to try unless there is an obvious thing wrong with the pup, though if they fail to make headway with support the only thing to be done is to let them go.

I would have to say hang in there - I know everyone else has more experience than me - but you do hear of some that are written off that do make it ! but i can understand that it must be so tireing and taking all of your energy.Its a tough call.

Mountaindreams - I am so sorry to hear that you lost a bitch during birth - and sorry to go off topic - but this is something I am really worried about.We are about to breed our first litter and I have sepnt the past 3 years with the 'do we dont we' for no other reason than if i lose my bitch doing something that I need not put her through . . . my heart really goes out to you x x x

Hang in there. I had this experience with a litter of 13, all of who survived. One of the pups being born at 170g when normal birth weight is around 380/450g. It took two weeks of constant care and attention 24/7 but little by little he gained weight,  lost less than he gained and then gained again. I sat with him every hour and helped him feed from Mum. I used to put him in my Crocs Mammoth for height so he didnt have to stretch for a teat, for  warmth and so he couldnt roll off the teat. It was an emotional rollercoaster and there were times I wished he would just fade away so I could  give up hope. I even had a blanket by the whelping bed to lay him in when he died. BUT he didnt die.................he is now a strapping 16 month old who is the image of his Grandad. I still get choked when I see him and he has been  my biggest challenge yet as a breeder. I learnt masses from the experience and was very satisfied ( if not heartbroken) when I waved him off to his new home.

its lovely when the ending is this way! xxx

Mountaindreams - I am so sorry to hear that you lost a bitch during birth - and sorry to go off topic - but this is something I am really worried about.We are about to breed our first litter and I have sepnt the past 3 years with the 'do we dont we' for no other reason than if i lose my bitch doing something that I need not put her through . . . my heart really goes out to you x x x .

Thanks Piratebear

I had never ever had a problem before and Taryn had whelped easily twice before but her heart stopped whilst they tried to wake her from the section and they could not restart it. I have 2 of her daughters and a son here to help ease the pain a little. I did think about giving up but I have just mated another girl and whilst I am stressed about it I know the chances are it will never ever happen again.

Good luck with your girl / litter and try not to worry.

I know it is one of those things that can happen - just as easily as one could get run over,just plays on your mind because we all spend so much time crooning over the pro's and cons of breeding a litter - looking into the lines etc.Can't imagine what you went through,must be a great comfort to have her progeny though x

Thanks ladies. He is much stronger and has been taking between a quarter and half an ounce today. I just can't give up on the little guy yet. If he wasn't showing such determination it would be a different matter. He still can't latch onto mum but is fine with the avent baby bottles and size 3 teats. Ive just weighed him and he has put on 30 ounces since yesterday. We are by no means out of the woods yet but as long as he is giving it his all then so will I.

tHATS GREAT NEWS! WHAT A LITTLE FIGHTER! KEEP US POSTED X

>he has put on 30 ounces since yesterday

I hope you mean grams....lol.  Well done, we recently lost a pup at 3 weeks of age, she seemed to be doing well then suddenly went downhill. :-(

It's good that he's fighting, hang in there! And Mountainbear I'm so sorry you lost your girl, it must be the worst thing ever.

D'oh. At least I know you lot will understand any spelling/grammatical errors caused by a new litter, lack of sleep and a cold brewing!!!

Yes grams not ounces.

well heres to your little 1 getting stronger and stronger day by day and week by week!!
im just getting over my chest infection and i feel so tired and my litter arnt on the ground yet! the very best of luck xxx

Just a quick update on my little man.
Well he is certainly a fiesty little character!!! He is back in with mum and litter mates now but still not able to latch onto her for any more than a couple of sucks so I am still bottle feeding him every three quarters of an hr but he is quite violent with the bottle now!!! Little sod!! He has gone from 380g to 515g in 6 days so not an enormous amount but at least he is going in the right direction and slow and steady and is not dehydrated anymore. The biggest 2 pups in the litter are now 1050g so there is a huge difference!!!  I'm still going to persevere with him as they are 11 days old now and re-think things when his eyes are open and he can walk if need be.

im so pleased for you :) :) :)
hes got to this age heres he goes from strenth to strenth xxxx

So pleased he is moving on x

Well after me saying that a couple of hrs ago he has taken a bad turn. He doesn't want the bottle and even after me toileting him and stroking him to liven him up he is showing no interest at all and is hardly moving. He is back on his hot water bottle and wimpering very very quietly. I think he has given up the fight. Bless him, he has fought so hard that if anyone deserves a shot at life its him. I think I am going to lose my little man tonight.

Awww im so sorry to hear this :( fingers crossed its so sad but you know you have tried all you can (((hugs))) xxx

Dare I ask how things have gone since you posted last evening? Best wishes, fingers & paws crossed.

RIP my brave little red boy.  24th December 2010 - 4th January 2011.  You were only 11 days old but you were loved every second of your short life.  You fought so hard with every last bit of strength you had and you were way too good for this crappy world. I love you my baby boy. Run free angel.

So, so sorry. Best wishes, Lacy

So sorry to hear this but you did your very best.  RIP.

so sorry ,r.i.p little one xxxx

oh, so sorry to hear this after you fought so hard together--sleep tight, you have been a much loved little boy xxx

So very sorry rip little one you are a brave  one.xxxx

So sorry, some things are meant to be, no matter how hard we try for them; you did your best.

so sorry you tried so hard RIP little one

So sorry for the loss of this little fighter, you did your very best for him.
RIP lil man. (((Hugs)))

Sadly this is so often the outcome, but we can't help but try, as any underlying abnormality tends to have more effect the older they get.

Concentrate and take pride and joy in the others..