Hi all,

I'm hoping some one can give me a little advice/guidance on a probable heart problem in my dog. I've written an essay on the problem so far below;

He's a 7 year old xbreed (border terrier x ???parsons russel/other terrier type). Has a long history of tummy problems, sensitive digestion, gastritis, blocked anal glands (had them removed Nov 08), dust allergies, hayfever etc.

He collapsed after coming in from a play in the garden on Thursday night, and seemed in a lot of discomfort around his tummy as well as very shallow breathing - I assumed blockage/twisted gut/bloat so we took him to the emergency vets, at which point he perked right up (typical!) - they checked him over thoroughly and sent us home saying all vital signs normal so keep a close eye overnight but get him to your normal vets 1st thing Friday am (out of hours for us are Vets Now - a whole other story!)

Friday am - took him into normal vets, dog subdued and still in obvious discomfort but not at collapsing point any more. Hadn't been for a poo since mid afternoon thurs so I was still thinking a blockage of some sort. The vet diagnosed a large fluid build up in his abdomen so wanted ito investigate further. He had blood tests, an ultrasound scan and a fluid sample taken on Fri and came home in the eve. Blood tests showed nothing unusual, nor did the ultrasound, which they only partially did as he's a wiggly dog and they didn't want to sedate until they had an idea of the prob.Was sent home for the weekend with some Frusemide to help disperse the fluid and make him more comfortable.

Back in Mon for a check, fluid has gone down considerably but he still feels uncomfortable in his tummy, didn't like having it touched at all. Vet decided to x-ray Tues (yesterday) to look into things further. Now suspects possibe tumor/liver damage.

Tues am - Dog in for xrays, wnt to collect him in the afternoon, vet said fluid tests had come back from the lab showing no sign of cancerous cells and hadn't tested positive for anything else they'd looked for. Showed me xrays, nothing out of place in stomach area so had decided to xra chest, and they say it clearly shows his heart is enlarged (I've never seen a xray so have no idea!) - they now suspect mild heart diesease, which doesn't explain the fluid in his abdomen or stomach pain, but as the xray shows an enlarged heart, that's what they'll treat. I came home with 1 week supply of Frusemide to continue to keep the fluid down, and also Vetmedin for his heart.

We have to go in next week for another check up, after which they'll decide if he needs to stay on these tablets permanently.

So, essay over, my first question is; Is it really that 'easy' to diagnose heart diesease, are there definitive tests that can be done?

I'm a little concerned that they've ruled out any stomach prob, as this is where his discomfort is - could this be related to the heart (vets answer 'I suppose so'!)

Finally, money (!!) so far it's cost close to £450 for tests/xrays so far (and OOH vet fee) - I'll sell my soul to keep my dog healthy if needed, but I've been informed that the Vetmedin alone will be at least £25 per month ongoing, plus he's likely to need more tests after next week's check. Vet was very vague about any possible side effects to the meds - where could I find a list of well known ones?

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to skimp on medication or treatment, if he needs it he'll have it, but I'm reluctant to pump him full of tablets for what seems to me, to be a half hearted ('scuse the pun!) diagnosis.

If you've managed to read all of that - well done!!! Any advise/guidance would be very welcome :-)

Claire

Claire, sorry to hear about your poorly dog, I can't help with his diagnoses but can say you can tell I have a heart problem by taking my pulse and heart problems do lead to fluid retention with me it is my feet and legs but it could be the lungs or abdomen. Hope you find the medication helps and you boy is soon feeling better.

So, essay over, my first question is; Is it really that 'easy' to diagnose heart diesease, are there definitive tests that can be done?

I had a Golden, Jesper, who started fainting when he was about 8, and the vet heard noting unusual when listening to his heart. So Jesper was x-rayed and it showed an enlarged heart -cardiomyopathy. He was treated for that and had another 3 years with us. And yes, fluid retention is very common with heart problems.

When Jesper eventually died I bought a Cavalier, Rufus. Cavaliers are prone to a different type of heart problem, and when he aged 7 started to get tired etc I listened to his heart myself with a cheap stethoscope I'd bought off Ebay, heard a loud murmur, took him to the vet and said he has a bad murmur -vet agreed. He was on medication for many years, lived until 15. So yes, heart problems are one of the easier conditions to diagnose. You can of course see a cardiologist and have an ultrasound scan done of the heart but personally I don't see the point (unless it is a dog of a breed that are not known to have heart problems and it would be vital to the line to find out what exact condition it was)-lots of extra expense, same outcome.

Good luck!

Now this is going back a few years, so I may have forgotten things or remembered them incorrectly, so bear with me!

The dog in question was a 7 year old Golden Retriever, who also had a very sensitive digestion (although that didn't have any bearing on her condition). She had recently finished a season and was in good health. Over a week or so she developed a very swollen abdomen and when we took her to the vet he diagnosed a pyo (despite no discharge or raised temperature) and operated immediately. As they opened her up there was an enormous gush as all the fluid was released. Anyway she recovered from the unnecessary emergency spay but within a couple of weeks her abdomen swelled up again.

At that point we were referred to the RVC at Cambridge where they undertook various tests, including an ultrasound of her chest area (and also said we were lucky not to have lost her through the surgery as she should never have been operated on!). They diagnosed a pericardial effusion (sp) where that sack surrounding the heart fills with fluid (the swelling in the abdominal area is a side effect). She was put on diuretics and had the fluid removed from around the heart under GA via a needle. This did sort it out for a couple of months but happened another few times over the next year or so (more drainings under GA), so the specialists decided the best option would be to remove the percardium, which they did. It was pretty major surgery but she recovered well and things were looking up until the abdominal swelling started again and there was nothing else they could do. She was pts shortly after her 9th birthday.

I hope your lad doesn't have the same, but his symptoms do sound quite similar. I think the abdominal swelling often comes with heart problems.

> I've been informed that the Vetmedin alone will be at least £25 per month ongoing

If this is what your vet has quoted then ask for a prescription. Most of the on-line places - vetmedic, hyperdrug etc - will have them and they work out much cheaper unless your vet does a rip-off on writing prescriptions.

My previous GSD 9½yrs was on Vetmedin, Frusemide, Fortecor and something else for about 4 months and price of less than 2 weeks tabs from vet got me a months worth on line.
Chris

Hi .
My OES was diagnosed with an enlarged heart a couple of years ago by my vet( by x rays and ecg) and i was told he had heart disease(DCM). He was put on Vetmedin at £50 a month and i was told he might last 6 months. After a year i started to ask questions but my vet kept saying he must just be doing well on the medication and an enlarged heart  means  he has heart disease.
Luckily my vet left and i joined another practice .When he was due his 6 month  heart check up i walked him in to the practice and  the  vet took one look at him and refered me to a cardio specialist. Anyway to cut a long story short my OES has a very enlarged heart but NO heart disease .It is possible to have a dog with an enlarged heart without the dog having heart disease.I also know of 1 other dog in the same situation.
The moral of the story is :- ask your vet for a referal to a cardio specialist .They are the only people that can do the specific tests that can diagnose heart disease when a dog just has an enlarged and is showing no other symptoms of a bad heart.
I know it means more money (my referral cost 300) but work out how much i had been paying for vetmedin over the 2 year period .

Jules

My 14 year old dog (toy breed) was diagnosed with an enlarged heart about 2 years ago - the only symptom was a persistent cough. The diagnosis was made via stethoscope examination and an x-ray and he is now permanently on Vetmedin. The original dosage was 2 tablets a day but I found this caused  'night wanderings' which meant that I had to get up 3/4 times every night to settle him back down. So I halved the dosage and that side of things has improved. He is certainly no invalid, the speed at which he chases a ball would put most 2 year olds to shame !

Thanks everyone for your replies, and sharing your own stories.

I'm going to see how we get on at the check up next week and for the moment probably won't ask for a referral to a specialist, but may do in the future. I have a lot of faith in our vets, they've been very good in the past - it just seemed to me to be a bit of a quick dignosis.

Lois_vp, my lad coughs a fair bit too, and always has done, the vet did mention this is a common symptom of heart problems.

I'm pleased to say he's perked up considerably in the last day or so, the Frusemide seems to have got rid of all of the fluid build up, which I suppose was causing him quite a bit of discomfort around his middle.

He is only on 1 Vetmedin tablet per day (1/2 morning, 1/2 night) - I'll ask the vet about a prescription if I can source them elsewhere - I'll spend whatever I need to ultimately, but if I can make a saving that would be great, as I literally live month to month and what he's cost in this last week has wiped out what little savings we had set aside.

Claire

Once the vet has settled on the medication best to control your dogs condition they will give you a 6 month prescription and you can but on line, you will get them cheaper but the vet can charge for the prescription if they choose but it should not be too much and it may still work out cheaper for your.