Just had a very nasty experience with my pup Eddie on our walk this morning :-(

We approached the field and he was greeted by a terrier type dog who wanted to chase... not a problem really, he approached us, so my dogs went off for the chase.  Then this dog's person came into view, with 6 or more other dogs... some on a lead.  As my dogs were chasing, they approached this group, and suddenly a staffie (one of hers, off lead) pinned 6 month old Eddie.  Now I know dogs can play rough, but the squealing coming from Eddie made me think it wasn't play.  So the woman was doing nothing, just watching with her other dogs on lead.  So in I ran, and I have no idea what I was thinking, but I lifted this Staffie's back legs off the ground (Caesar Milan stylee... I know, I know... maybe not the best thing, but I couldn't get his jaws off Eddie's neck!)  Anyway, eventually the staffie let go and Eddie ran off.

I told the woman that this dog should have been on a lead... she then told me that I needed to control my dogs and that I didn't understand dog dominance or behaviour.  That may be so, but my dog was terrified!  My dogs aren't angels, but they don't fight and have good recall.  99% of the time they don't approach other dogs, but will happily play if approached themselves.  So she stood watching me trying to get my poor Eddie back, saying how awful his training was etc etc.  Eddie was terrified!  He's only just let me touch him, and this happened over an hour ago.  It took a long time to get him back on his lead because he was all a dither. 

He has 2 puncture wounds on his neck.  They don't look particularly serious, but that's not the point.

This woman was walking other people's dogs for them, and is paid for her 'services'.  I've seen her regularly and have had a few iffy moments with some of her dogs, never like this though... just noise really.  She struggles to get them under control and doesn't pick up their poo.

In light of this morning's events, I was wondering if there is anything I can do... especially as she's supposed to be doing this proffessionally??

Thanks... and sorry for the rant, I was quite upset :-(

Clare

Report to local dog warden?? Sorry for Eddie's fright

Hope he's ok now.

As said by Cava!una and maybe can you see where she takes any of the dogs back home.  i'd knock on their door or pop a note through.  Doesn't sound like she's very responsible for dog supervision.

I would contact the local dog warden.  I had a similar experience some years back. My 12 year old dogl was surrounded by half a dozen loose dogs which had just been let out of the dog walkers van.  Not a lead in sight and within 25 yards of a local bus route.  The woman made no attempt to recall the dogs, just walked off up the lane with the one dog that she had on a lead.  Luckily, apart from a bit of growling, no physical harm was done to my old girl but I made a note of the registration number of the van and rang the dog warden when I got home.  She knew who this woman was immediately as she had received previous complaints about her irresponsible behaviour. You may not be the first person to suffer.  If no-one complains, she will keep getting away with it.

Clare. So sorry for Eddie and yourself, as others have said I would report to the dog warden. If you know where she lives I'd write to her saying that if treatment required for bites, that you will be sending her the bill.
Changing subject slightly, met a friend the other day who had seen a someone excercising three Labs close to the cliffs not far away and she was throwing their ball over a 2/3 foot fissure for them to collect, the drop is well over 60 feet! Yelled at her to stop and what the hell was she doing, brushed it aside and said ' not to worry their not my dogs, I'm just the dog walker!'.  She was reported to the Dog warden.

I believe that if she was walking more than 4 dogs at a time she is breaking the law.

It is worrying how many novices are presenting themselves as dog experts and spouting nonsense about dominance etc..  You should report her to the dog warden and if she works for a company report her to them too. If she works for herself is she properly insured etc..? She should be.

I would add that if your dog has puncture wounds to the neck, no matter how innocuous looking, please get him checked by a vet asap. Serious, deep wounds can often look nothing. Better to err on the side of caution. Pass the vet bill on to this woman or to her company.

Contact the Local authority as if this is being done professionally I believe she would need to be Licensed.

Also she should be insured and you should claim for Eddies injuries, as a trip to the vet may well be needed with puncture wounds.

If there were no wounds then perhaps her excuse might hold some weight, but not if actual damage was done, this is far more than an older dog telling a youngster off for impertinence.

I don't have anything to add re: Warden and local authority, But, if you haven't already, please take Eddie to the vet. Whether his wounds are serious or not, have his injury recorded.   I do hope he is OK and recovers mentally quickly

Dog warden and if you can find out who she is insured with, you can find out how many dogs she is allowed to walk at once. there are restrictions.

Thanks Kay, he's off to the vet this afternoon.  Thanks everyone for the good advice!

I have a good idea who it is now, and I will be taking it further, but will make 100% certain that I have the right dog walker before doing anything!

I'll have to give him lots of nice doggy experiences now to make up for it... LKA at the weekend will be a good venue for it :-D

these dog walkers (not all of them) are becoming a complete nightmare. We have one in my area who walks up tp eight dog all off lead. My dog was attacked by them and she said it was my fault for having mine on the lead.
I run training classes and this womans name often comes up as people dread meeting her.
I met her again at the weekend with only two dogs, she waited for me so I walked with her, she began to tell me about all the abuse she gets when her out of control dogs interverer with on lead dogs. She had even had her van vadelised for it.
I tryed my best to make her see it from the other dog walkers point of view, I told her that people have thier dogs on the lead for very good reasons, and that what she is doing is totaly out of order. I was very nice about it but she still thinks she is right. Oh! and she asked me why dogs dont like other dogs when they are on the lead! She such know that. 
this woman does doggy home boarding and day care. My message to anyone thinking of handing thier dog over to such a person to be very very carefull. I dont think her customers have a clue what is happening.
I think there such be some sort of legeslation for dog walkers and home boarders, and be restricted to the number they can walk at one time.

Well I've been doing a bit of digging and it seems this woman is the same... lots of bad experiences, notoriously irresponsible, etc etc.  I do feel for the people who are entrusting her with their doglets :-(

I'd find out if it was her business or she works for someone then complain and i would also send her the vets bill and hope it bumps up her premiums!! My dog walkers insurance covers me for 6 dogs at a time (i won't walk that many!) the national association of pet sitters insures you for 8 dogs as does i 'think' Cliverton.
Maybe its because i have experience of my breed constantly getting attacked by other dogs so i'm well aware the responsibility i have on me so i won't walk more than 1 dog at a time (2 from the same household) I thought ahead and knew i could NOT in no uncertain terms look after 4 or more dogs if one was confronted and injured, what do you do with the other dogs?
Bearing in mind for some reason i only get to walk big dogs haha they must see my website and think ahhh big dog lady , i can sustain a reasonable living on walking the 6 dogs i have per day (2 from same house = 5hrs per day). I met another dog walker a while ago in the car park of the park thankfully she was leaving and she had about 9 dogs with her i said how on earth do you get them all in the car without any arguments between them, she waved a pet corrector spray at me and said voila!!!! Stupidity at its best.
Its such a shame but then surely when people are looking for a dog walker they must let common sense prevail and realistically think how can the dog walker handle 6 dogs plus my 'toby' (for instance), i only advertised twice in the local paper i've got the rest by word of mouth, being on my own i won't walk more than 5hrs per day but i have on average 2 enquiries a week which i have to turn down all by recommendation as people like the way i work (1 dog) i won't even walk my own dogs with clients so i have to add on another hour per day to walk my own lol

Oh Clare, what a shame for Eddie, he is a lovely sweet boy. You are quite right to be upset. Quite apart from your local dog warden, see if you can get a photo of her not picking up after the dogs in her care--environmental health officers will be happy to prosecute her. And it might be worth having a word with the local press--the story could well rings some bells with others who may have had similar experiences, or worse still be paying this idiot to look after their dogs. She needs stopping.

I hope you both are ok--it's horrible when you see and hear your own dog being terrorised--Bean had this treatment from an Akita (the very well dressed owners took off without a word of "is he all right") and it's taken months for him to get used to being in with big dogs again.

she waved a pet corrector spray at me and said voila!!!!

And people ask me why I don't trust my dogs to anyone else!!! I'd love to find a responsible dog walker in my area but am frightened of what treatment my dogs might get--a remote chance, I know, but I just won't take it. Needless to say my clients and family all think I am mad, although my son wasn't complaining when I offered him 50% above his wage to dogsit for a week while I went on holiday :)

I hate to say this but I don't remember being this worried about leaving my children at nursery when they were small.

good luck with Eddie at LKA!

Thanks :-)

Just been to vet, the puncture wounds were deeper than they looked, but still not too bad.  Vet said that she was surprised that there wasn't any surrounding tissue damage, but the dog obviously didn't get an opportunity to shake.  So, just got to stake out the carpark tomorrow morning to make sure I've got the right details... and she can be reported to dog warden and the professional body she's registered with...and sent the bill!

Thanks for the advice everyone!!

Good for you i hope she pays up and is taught a lesson to be more responsible in future

Please let us know how you get on with all this.  And best of luck with it.  Also hugs to Eddie.

> And people ask me why I don't trust my dogs to anyone else!!! I'd love to find a responsible dog walker in my area but am frightened of what treatment my dogs might get--a remote chance,

I have to say, I agree.  I don't think there is a dog walker around Dundee I would trust my dog's with.   I say this, as I work as one and I provide the service I WOULD WANT from a dog walker but I know no-one else offers this! They cram as many as they can into their vans, take them to a small wood, let them out in batches and then the others have to sit in a dark cold van.  The owners think they have been away for hour's when in fact, the dog has had 30 minutes walking at the most.   Compare that to the 2-3 hours I give the dogs I walk!

Good for you Claire and lets hope there is no last damage to poor Eddie..

When I go out walking I often find myself in the same place as some of these 'professional' dog walkers. Most have up to 10 dogs each and they all seems to walk together. So you think, 3 walkers, around 30 dogs.. What happens when one of these dogs ends up in a fight? Most of the dogs would get involved(pack mentality) and having only 3 handlers there is not enough.

Someone said to me, when you walk your dogs you've got to think, if a dog gets injured/becomes ill and you need to rush it to the vets, the last thing you need to be worrying about is a whole pack of dogs you need to round up.. Can you cope with the numbers you have if a problem arose and in the above case and in most dog walker's cases its got to be no..

Hello all,

I've had some major success with finding the details of the dog walker who's dog bit Eddie yesterday. I have her name and the street she lives in. She was prosecuted a few months ago for not cleaning up after her dogs!

Anyway, the dog warden can't open up past reports due to data protection so ideally needs a house number, not just the street she lives in. Anyone know how I can find this without spending a fortune registering on various websites?  Worst case scenario, I'll drive along her street and look for her van... but it'd be nice to avoid that!

Thanks,

Clare

>> I have to say, I agree.  I don't think there is a dog walker around Dundee I would trust my dog's with.   I say this, as I work as one and I provide the service I WOULD WANT from a dog walker but I know no-one else offers this!

That's not true of all of them.  Mine only has 4 dogs and they are all walked together.  the ones that need to stay on the lead are kept on the lead and the others trot along beside her.  On days when I have been off work I often go down and meet her in the park and walk with her so I know they do get a decent walk.  They aren't all bad.

A friend of mine is a 'professional' dog walker, and much as I like her I wouldn't trust her with my dogs. She loves dogs and does treat them the same as her own dogs. They all get walked together for several hours a day but twice now she has forgotten a dog and left one behind at the park!!

can you check online directory enquiries by using a name and a street?  Or the electoral register will be online, or yell.com or the yellow pages if she advertises as a dog walker.  Or you could check facebook and see if she has a page that has info about her.  If you have her full name you could go on pipl.com and see what online presence she has and this will give you additional info about her.

Try this http://www.btexchanges.com/  just put in the surname and town and it gives you addresses (as long as they arent x-directory)

Cliverton insurance covers 6 dogs.

Well, it's all reported to the dog warden... This woman is well known to them!  Unfortunately though there is nothing they can do about a dog attacking another dog!!!  They're bringing in control orders next year to allow any one person to exercise a maximum of 6 dogs at a time... she would be in breach of this, but it hasn't started yet :-(  The dog warden did suggest taking it to a small claims court.  Does anyone have any experience of this or advice on how I should proceed?  The vet bill was £80, which isn't as bad as it could have been, but I feel it's more the principle now!!!

Can you not send her a photocopy of the vets bill with a politely but straight to the point worded letter and explain if the matter is not resolved you will take it to the small claims court? (send it signed for delivery) if she's that defiant she probably won't pay but it may harm her business if she doesn't, does your local paper have a readers letters page? obviously you don't need to name names but say a brief rant on the incident :D (I would!)
Would the police not do anything? or at least if you report it you will get a crime reference number which i imagine would aid any future claim against her.

Good luck i would aim to do it on principle too, it really gets my goat that there are responsible dog walkers out there (like myself :) ) that lose possible business because of shocking stories like this that put potential clients off!

Yes I would report her to the police and make sure you quote the reference when you send her the letter.

I would also suggest you ask for her insurance details ( name of company and the policy number of her public liablity insurance) as your legal advisor will also be writing a letter to her insurers ;-) That will probably put her in  apanic as if she hasn't got any she will be in even more trouble that she could possibily be now.

If she does provide it ( you never know she might have it ! ) you can then write a letter to them directly with the costs of the vets bills and see if you can get them to sort it out with her.

Try this:

http://www.epeoplesearch.co.uk

I don't know if this is the same as PIPL but you may find an earlier thread about this

good luck!

i had to deal with a dog on dog attack a few weeks ago, the police where so unhelpfull to start with but i went onto the defra website and there is information on there about dogs being out of control in a public place and i went with all the info down to the police and this time they took me seriously and went to warn the owner of the dog that had attacked mine,
but i was lucky my dog had no injuries but if it had i would of had to go to the small claims court.

you could also write a letter to the local paper on their letters page and let people know when and where it happened you may then get others come forward to also complain about the person, you do not have to use names but just where it was and when etc,also mention that it is a proffesional dog walker and you would hate to think that someones dog could attack another dog and may eventually be put to sleep due to the proffesional dog walker letting someone else dog who she is in charge of attack another dog etc.

hope you have luck

I too would want to follow it up, on principle. Yes contact the police, but from experience I found them to be unhelpful.  After six calls, every time being told I would get a call back with an incident number they have never contacted me (Dog was known to have attacked over 12 other dogs and no action was taken as 'not' enough people had come forward!)  So suggest that when you do that you also send/hand them a letter detailing the incident. Good luck, as for small claims, ring your local court and they will send you the forms.

> you could also write a letter to the local paper on their letters page and let people know when and where it happened you may then get others come forward to also complain about the person, you do not have to use names but just where it was and when etc,also mention that it is a proffesional dog walker

Sounds like a good idea in principle, BUT is that fair to other, reputable dog walkers in the area? Their reputations might suffer if rumours got about and it might be hard for them to prove their innocence to their clients.

Good luck, as for small claims, ring your local court and they will send you the forms.

you can do it all online as well

Well I wrote her a letter, giving her 14 days to reply.  I sent a copy of the vet bill and quoted my dog warden reference number and asked for details of her insurers.  I've had no response :-(  I'm unsure whether I 'technically' have a leg to stand on if I take it to small claims?  Police have said that if both dogs were off lead there is nothing they can do.  What does everyone think?  Eddie is 100% recovered and doesn't seem to be psychologically damaged from it, we have been very lucky.  If this lady wasn't a professional dog walker, I think I'd just let it go....  What does everyone think I should do?
Thanks,
Clare

I think you should try and follow it up. The owners of the dogs being walked are probably unaware of whats going on.

Today I was told of a dog walker with 8 dogs, some running free, and one of the dogs came up to a friend's dog teeth bared. The dog walker admitted the dog was vicious but said "it's not my dog" as if that relinquished all responsibilty. She is never seen to pick up poo either.

How about a letter to the local newspaper, you don't have to give details, just ask people who use these services to check them out thoroughly.

Did you do it via recorded delivery ?

> Police have said that if both dogs were off lead there is nothing they can do.

Clare, So good to hear that Eddie is well. I don't understand that both dogs being off lead has anything to do with it, a dog has to be under control. As I said earlier I have found the police to be unhelpful to the point of disinterest but having had one of ours paralised (for a while & large vet bills) from an attack it's left me believing that people should/must be accountable for their dogs behaviour and cover costs. Best wishes.

Glad Eddie seems to have out of it OK. I appreciate there will be some responsible professional dog walkers, but I don't see how any one person can control this number of dogs. It is different if they are on their own land, but I don't agree with it on public land.

My friend and I always have a walk on the beach on a Friday and we often encounter a dog walker with anything between 8 - 10 dogs, the majority of which are running free. One of my friends boys does not like to be rushed at or crowded by unknown males, yet no matter how much space we give the lady, she seems to follow us and does nothing whatsoever to call the dogs back when they rush over. Last week a very large chocolate lab did a mock charge with teeth clacking, and she simply laughed. I think if we see her tomorrow and the wardens are on the beach I might have a word.
 

ChristineW - That is EXACTLY what our local dog walker does, I see his van with dogs barking away, every day.

Yes, recorded, so definitely received! 

CVL, I hope you can follow this up, so this woman will realish the damage she is doing, and that you get your vet bill paid.

This is becoming a big problum as more people are becoming dog walkers as other jobs are scarce, I suppose they exercise them all at once because its more cost effertive to do that, its saves times and there is only one jouney.
It causes behavioural problums for other dogs haveing so many dogs rushing up to them than they can cope with, its so unfair and selfish.
I would never ever let my dog go with people like this, I would rather leave him in on his own all day, at least he is safe there. (never do though but things change)
In some areas councils have made a law restricting people to only walk four dogs at once. I think that is too many with dogs that are not your own.
When I first heard that I though it was very unfair especially if walking with friends you can easily have four or more. Unless its four per person, I'm sure someone will know.
However I tend to think this maybe a good idea after all, or for the council to restrict dog walkers to four or less at once.

What do others think?

Must say that not all dog walkers are the same, I have a friend who is a good one, and if well organished can  good and valuable service.

> Police have said that if both dogs were off lead there is nothing they can do.  What does everyone think? 

In the case of Briscoe -v- Shattock QBD 12 October 1998 (dogs killed a dog):

35......Accordingly I would answer the second question by the Justices:

"Whether the Dogs Act 1871, as amended and applied, permitted a finding that a dog was dangerous and not under proper control when only a fight between dogs took place and no person or other animal was endangered or injured."

with the answer "yes".

"65. MR JUSTICE SEDLEY: The word "dangerous" in section 2 of the Dogs Act 1871 is not a term of legal art. In my judgment a dog is shown to be dangerous by evidence which satisfies the Justices that the description applies to it within the ordinary limits of the English language. The meaning of the word has not changed appreciably since 1871. What will have changed, as society has changed, are the circumstances in which a dog may be a source of danger. The contrasting language of the preceding section of the 1871 Act, now repealed, by employing the phrase "savage or dangerous" in relation to straying dogs on the highway, disposes of any argument that in section 2 Parliament meant the material danger to be restricted to danger to human beings. The latter is a purpose to which the word "savage" would, if anything, have been more appropriate."
The above is taken from here

To sum up, as the above case shows, dog that has attacked another dog can be deemd 'dangerous' or  'dangerously out of control' by a court.

From the DDA:

5)It is hereby declared for the avoidance of doubt that an order under section 2 of the M1Dogs Act 1871 (order on complaint that dog is dangerous and not kept under proper control)--
(a)may be made whether or not the dog is shown to have injured any person

I think the police are not doing there job proerly. What is the point in laws if the policemen don't ever bring anybody to court for them?

ETA, if the police were enforcing this act properly, us responsible owners would have less to fear when walking our dogs, as the irresponsible planks would be forced to keep control of thier dogs.

I think you should push for something to be done, the authorities can sometimes be very slow to act, but everyone is entitled to use public spaces without fear from out of control dogs. I think the point of both dogs  being off lead is because it would be difficult, with only you as a witness, to lay blame on who was at fault, although clearly the dog walker was, the law needs proof to do anything. If it happens again you should say you were in fear of your own safety and quote section 3 of the DDA where it's an offence to allow your dog to cause actual harm or cause alarm, then they might take some notice.
Hope Eddie's ok, it's just such an incident ( and subsequent ones ) that made one of my Staffies very fear aggressive towards small dogs ( fine with big ones ) she used to be incredibly friendly too.

As it happens, I'm in contact with another person who's dog was attacked that same morning.  I also know other dog walkers heard the commotion... don't know if that is as good as 'witnesses' though.  I wish I had said I was worried about my own safety, and perhaps I would have been if I'd had time to think... I just had to get it off Eddie :-(

I wonder if you can approach this from a slightly different direction? If the dog walker doesn't respond, how about a letter, or even an advert in the local paper, describing the dog and asking for the owner to get in touch as you are considering a prosecution under the dangerous dogs act? ;)

Might make the owner panic a bit and at least question the way in which this person exercises the dogs in her care!

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/wirral/countycourtindex.htm#letter

Claire why not fill out the intention form (second stage) and send a copy via recored again and say that it is your intention to submit the N1 Summons form . Say that you would like to settle this out of court and feel giving them time to consider and take responsibilty for their actions and keep it out of court ( maybe mention the press as well ;-) would be for everybodies benefit.

It will be difficult for her to get any counter claim as you have vets bills to prove injury ( I assume Eddie didn't retaliate at all in self defense and cause any injury) then she will have nothing to bring to her defense at all. If the other person who is also willing to be a witness for you can then also mention this as it proves that there were two incidents in one day
only strengthening your case.

I personally would persue this but be prepared for a lot of stress and if it actually goes to court it is a very daunting experience ! I have been through this myself for another matter and I represented myself plus brought some expert witnesses along and I won ! It was a great feeling afterwards and I big sigh of relief when i walked out of the court but well worth proving my point to stop the person doing the same thing again. ( I wasn't the first person for the incident to happen to but the first one to take the person to court for it !! :-)

My husband is a dog walker, he only walks the dogs of one customer at a time. Yes he could make a lot more money walking multiple dogs but I wouldn't allow him! He's CRB checked, insured through a specialist company and has attended an animal first aid course.

I can't see how one person can guarantee the safety of the dogs they're walking and the public if they're walking large numbers. I walk my own dogs together, I have 5 small and 1 large, and know how they are going to react because they're mine, I don't see how you can have that understanding with other people's dogs.

I would have thought that this dog walker should have public liability insurance which the OP could claim on.

he only walks the dogs of one customer at a time. Yes he could make a lot more money walking multiple dogs but I wouldn't allow him!

That's the only sort of dog walker that I would consider responsible!

I don't see how one person can control 4-6 dogs from different homes when they all have their own words of command and different abilities of obedience.

I could control all of mine because I'd trained them from puppies and knew their limitations and differences.