I dont know when I have been more angry
I have just come off the pone from a man looking to mate his bitch
She will he says be in season next week and as he moved house he had not a dog lined up for her
He asked me if i can help him find a red dog
He said he met me at a show and did I remember his bitch
I did actually and said oh yes the little red bitch
So I asked him did he ever breed
no
does he know anything about breeding no
why does he want to breed
To get pups for free for family and friends
I try to be calm and I say I will always help someone out if I can but I n
to be sure they would do all the necessary things etc
Iwould point him to a dog that suited his bitch if he told me how it was bred etc said if was going to do it he may as well do it properly for the protecton of the breed and as i knew all the lines in the country I could do that for him .
He went on then to tell me his bitch had a type of pointy face and he was
looking for a dog with a pointy face.
He preferred that to the proper face
I patiently tried to tell him this was a fault and he should try to breed it out he then said that he preferred his bitch and was looking for a similar type face as his friends preferred his bitch and they wanted to have a puppy like her as she was
nicer then the proper ones.
I tried again to explain to him patiently how he should try to help maintain the standards of the breed not ruin them
I went to explain again in detail how he should go about it .
I am simply trying here to see if I can at least salvage the litter from more fault
As he is going for it with or without my help .
I then asked him did he realise the stud fee usually costs a thousand euros and sometimes a puppy .
how he needed to have vet lined up also outlay etc
He said surely the bitch will look after all that so I said she may not raise them or need loads of help
He said survival of the fittest
that is when I lost it and told him he was not getting any information from me
and I was ringing around to see he got no information from the club .
I am furious .

Oh Mari, I dont know how you kept your temper, or kept your hands off .No wonder you are so furious.

It must be so difficult to deal with people who don't have a clue and aren't interested in learning. He'll maybe manage to get a stud somewhere but make sure you've called everyone you can to warn them. :(
Dot

Mari
Some people are just sooooooo maddening
I think you did the right thing, I mean it's bad enough that he knows jack s**t about breeding and thinks of it as an exercise in providing freebies for friends & family but to compound it by describing a breed fault and wanting to breed towards it is beyond belief!
Nicky

Marie, breeding with little or no knowledge is what I call puppy farming, and there's a lot of it about!!

You're more patient than me - well done!

I know exactly where you are coming from on this. Some people seem so mad and just do not care. I had someone ring me up to use my Weimaraner at stud last year. They owned a Rhodesian Ridgeback and wanted it mated by a Weimaraner as they had heard it made a better dog. I told the lady under no circumstances was my dog mating her bitch. She just could not understand why.
Nutkin

Hi Val . Yes I am a weeny bit more patient . just a weeny bit . but that is behind all the f!!! and damns under the breath
So it is the big breath as I feel if I can hold them I may be able to make a difference. :( but not today I lost my head.
It was the survival of the fittest got me
as if the poor pups were spartans .
I can not use the mouthful He got . I would be banned
but I did make phone calls to all I knew and then some. He will not be getting a service in a hurry as I have called so many he will have a hard time finding someone .
So fingers crossed for the bullies and all other breeds that may be put at risk by those idiots.
Mari

Even im not clueless on breeding I know everyones had a dig at me today because I want to start to breed but that man is stupid whats attractive about a dog wiyh a pointed face the mind boggles

Dogs, have the decency to be honest.
The reason for the "digs" is not because you want to start breeding. It's because of your rude behavior and unfounded accusations. Which YOU gleefully started. Boardmembers didn't goad you into your rude postings... we didn't know you existed to do so. This is ALL on your shoulders.
toodles

if you had only seen the digs I recieved earlier maybe that would change your mind I came onto this page trying to find some answers to my questions And all I have found is alot of people who love to put you down

So, if thats the case, why do you keep replying?

surely theres afew good ones out there I have chatted to a few nice ladies

I know I'm a new breeder but i spent 2 years doing research before i bred my dog and i know people who have helped me with the standards and the dogs,,,,,, I can't believe people breed just for the sake of it,,,,,,,,it isnt rite,,,,,,,,, I dont show at the moment but thats what i aim for,,,,,

Hi Mari,
Just read your post, No one has pointed out that this call could be a wind up.....I have in the past had calls from people saying the stupidist of things, such as your call, to purposely wind you up, usually someone in the dog world. Did you check on 1471, that is if you are in the UK.

It was no wind up Charm believe me . the person has since managed to get a mating for the bitch from a person that has come into ownership of a dog I bred .I did not know he was sold on and owner left country.
and there is nothing I can do. Mari

Hi Mari

It is things like that that prompt breeders to put breeding restrictions on all the pups they sell :(

Christine

Christine . the contract does not cover new ownership .
not sure how to work around it but Iam looking into it. in this case it is too late.
Mari

Hi Mari

If you put breeding restrictions (progeny not for registration) on the original registration this still applies even if he has been sold on - this was something that concerned me a while ago so I checked on it.

Christine

I Bet that this chap is not interested in getting kc reg for these pups , as you the poster said he just wants freebies for friends and family, so the restriction would make no diffrence anyway.

Sam

Thats true Sam , But at least if they are not registered then those dogs wont be down to my breed.
Mari

Cristine .
I had a contract drawn up to say the dog would be returned to me should anything go wrong and if used at stud to approved bitches only. The new owner is a good person and is upset for not knowing about the contract .
The person who sold the dog has gone to australia . I have written to K.C to block registration . Will let you know how it goes .
Mari

After seeing your letters about a litter for friends and family that is what i am wanting to do

I had a little cocker spaniel pup he was 12 weeks old when we got him He was last onefrom the litter the lady said she would save her for a couple of days untill we could get there
which when we arived he was in a cage in the front room.Ifell in love with him straight away.

We only had him just over 6 weeks he was everything we ever wanted in a dog.(i've always had springers in the past and when i was at home my parents had them aswell)
Up till the night we took him to the vets he wasnt poorly or didn't seem it or i would have taken him earlier.
That night we had been out only for a couple of hours,and when we got back he came and greeted us but then we relised he was not his usual self so we kept our eye on him, but as it got later he went down hill really fast. he started been sick but it was clear thickish stuff that was coming out of his mouth, every time he had a drink within minuets he had brought it back up.
We took him to the vets at 2.30am and we left him there telling him we would see him in a couple of hours and he'd be alright.
Later that morning the vet phoned saying they were going to do some blood tests, so we said fine,10 minuets later they phoned back saying he had just died, i was so upset my mum had to ask all the questions,eg. what was wrong, could we have saved him if we had taken him earlier, etc
For weeks and weeks we were trying to think if we could have done any thing different, the vet said there was nothing we could have done it was his imunsystem.
We will never beable to replace TRIGGER or ever want to he was THE BEST.

But now we have decided after woundering if it would happen again we have found a lovely couple who have saved us a pup since she was 3 weeks old. we don't pick her up till 5 of november though.
i am so excited i carn't wait.
But to keep going and making sure i always have one. i carn't live with out one.
i ame getting a bitch so i can breed if just the once and i am wanting to make sure they go to good homes so i can see them all the time and as my parents dogs getting old i have them in mind and also my brother and close friends. but also keek one myself but then i know none of the family are wanting to breed they just want a dog to share there love and life with.

Sorry for going on but there's my life story
Thankyou

KELLY

Very sorry to hear of your little one, I hope the next one can bring you as much joy and more.

Hi Kelly
I'm truly sorry you lost your boy. :(
And I hope your new dog turns out to be everything you want, but please think very hard before you decide to mate her.
Breeding a litter is a big commitment. Health checks should be done on all dogs intended for breeding use and it is not just simply a matter of finding someone down the road or in the next town who has a dog and is willing to let it mate your bitch. PLEASE tell your bitch's breeder what you intend to do and ask for advice about suitable stud dogs, compatible lines, health checks etc. And remember that you shouldn't be thinking of breeding until she is at least 2 or 3 years old so you have plenty of time to research the subject and make sure you do it right.
Nicky

HI
Very sorry to hear of your sad loss:( But I think Nicky has gave you good advice about the breeding side of things. You must not decide to start breeding just because you wan't to carry your dogs on for further generations. Worse case could lead to bitch dieing and loseing all your pups, that would be very upsetting.

I don't wan't to put a dampner on you but sometimes you only realise how much of a mistake you are making when someone else points it out for you.

Enjoy your dog for what it is a companion and a pet, hope you have many happy years with your little girl

DOGS

Wow Heidi! You've come a long way. :)

THANKYOU FOR REPLYING.
Since loosing Trigger we all have thought hard about getting another dog,
We thought we would have him for a very long time, we went out and bought a touring caravan so even when we went away he could still be with us he came every where with us he loved to go in the car or just play in the back garden,so now it just so lonley with out him.

Since we took a lot of thought and time on doing reserch on cockers and spending weeks going through web sites looking for the right one, i even visited som kennels but i didn't like what is saw, some dogs haden't been cleaned out and they knew we were coming this was at dinner time aswell, and they had runns but they were lovely little things.

Before we do breed her we are going to take time to make sure we can do every thing right and hopefully learn even more than we do now, even though you learn new things everyday.

I'm going to wait till shes at least 2 or3 years of age and the breeder knows what were planning and she has given us a lot of advice which we were greatfull for and they told us of a great old lady of 80 years old who could probley help us out but were going to keep the standards up and all we can for there health.
I dont want to be a breeder its jus for myself and children to love and cherish...

THANKS AGAIN KELLY

Hi Kelly,
One more thing to consider perhaps...?

All reputable breeders provide lifetime advice to the new owners. Do you have the experience to answer any and all questions directed your way? It really is a lifetime commitment. All reputable breeders also tell their new puppies owners to return the dog to them if there ever comes a time when they are unable to keep it. Are you prepared to take back those puppies?

Here are two questions for all the breeders who read this thread.
1. How many pups have you had returned to you over the years?
2. What sort of contact have you had with your puppies owners over the dogs lifetime?

Hi, I have had two dogs ( not puppies) returned over the years. The first was a marriage break up, and the second was a case of owners elderley dad died, elderley mum went to live withthem, young boisterous wolfhound knocked her over, so returned to me. Over the years, I have had one owner who didnt keep in touch after the first few weeks. All the others send pictures every year,phone occasionally, and always send a Xmas card. Some are on the third wolfhound from me.

Kelly

When you say you are going to do everything right before you breed does this mean you are going to show your dog and see if it breed standerd, or are you going to just learn what you can from books and other peoples knowledge, Not being nasty just nosey

Talking for my sister, she had 2 returned (Newfoundlands) from the same litter both at 2 years. One a bitch because of domestic violence when one partner was in hospital and the other in jail, and the other, a dog, because of marriage brakedown. Both dogs were so traumertised they could not be rehomed so she had to keep them herself. This was bad enough but the dog came with a companion, not of her breeding, who because of his condition she kept too, how many of us could take 3 Newfoundlands into our home at a moments notice. She couldn't really but felt she had no choice. Jackie

Jackie
She is obviously is a very nice caring lady, pity there is not more people like that out there. :)

If you had seen the vets bills, over £200 per month, I think you would have called her stupid as well as careing. She no longer breeds, she can't afford to. And yes she is a special person. Jackie

Hi Hiedi
I can hardly believe it's you posting! :D
You have taken so much in in such a short time, I'm sorry I doubted you at first. :rolleyes:
But now you are *one of us* ;) reading these sort of posts, I hope you can see why we all went off on one at you in the begining! :D
Nicky

oooh that was a big piece of pie ;) :D :D
liz

Yeah Liz it was wasn't it? ;)
But worth pointing out I think don't you?
Thing is it makes all our postings worthwhile if we can help people to get it right. :D
Nicky

It was very worth pointing out and very good of you to say it :) ;)
Liz

:D
Nicky

Thanks Nicky :)

You have made me seen the light :) Thanks for being so hard on me lets just hope Kelly sees the way I do soon before she makes any mistakes ;)

For Heidi {{{ hugs }}}. Well done you .

Mari :) :) :) :) :) :) thanx xxx

Hello
When is said i want to get everything right i mean that i want to take time to learn all about everything i can about anything and everything.

this new pup is so special especialy to me and to my girls, even if i did breed i have thought about what if the dogs need to come back for any reason.I though that isn't a problem i have the room and i wouldn't think twice of not taking them back, i would let everyone know if they had any problems just to give me a call and i will do my best to help them out.

Over the years i have had all different kinds of dogs thit i rehomed because people haven't been able to look after them for different reasons and every one of them i know where they are and how there doing, its great to see how there doing.

We started off with a alsation who was lovely we got him from a dogs home and he had been so badley treated it took months to get through to him but after years of having him and everone saw how he changed he was lovely and i said from then on if i could help a dog i would.(i'm not to bothered about cats though but i would still never see one come to any harm) weve had staffies to little scruffy things which my mum has had for seven years now called turbo his owners said he was causing too much damage but he was only 10 weeks old but covered in flees, they'd had him looked in a coal house since he was 6 weeks old.

Like i've said before i've had springer spaniels all my life and now i had my little trigger i want to carry on with cockers.

But thank you once again for replying
and thanks to everyone else as well!!!!

Best of luck to you then Kelly. Hope everything turns out well. :)

If I were thinking of doing something similar, I would find a very knowledgeable, reputable breeder of my chosen breed and use them as my mentor. Preferably someone who is familiar with my bitches lines that can advise when choosing the best stud.

Thank You Quinn.

When we went to see the people who were getting our next pup off they were so friendly and full of advice it was so nice to meet people like this and they couldn't do enough to help so were going to stay intouch,and they said they would help us find a good breeder if needed.

When we got trigger his owners were ok but not much help i think they were doing it for the money because they had 6 cockers all who were mostly in cages in the kitchen and also after seeing our pups parents he was quite big for a cocker, who was only 12 weeks old but they never gave us a history sheet of his family she said she would send it throug the post, which we never got.
These new people couldn't do enough they were shoeing us photos and history from each of her litters and there were loads i couldn't beleve it and she even got books out and showed us pictures of here family back ground.
So when i got trigger he was my first ever cocker and i think he could have been a money making thing but still i would never have changed him for the world.
The breeders of the pup said i bet she was inter breeding them because she had 4 bitches and 2 dogs but this carn't have been any good for the dogs,thats why im trying to find out as much as posible and not go for people like her. but most of the cocker breeders i have phoned and talked to couldn't do enough to help they were giving me loads of peoples phone numbers for if i needed to talk or needed help and people who live near me it was brillient to find so many people wanting to help.

Thanks once again kelly

I have been completely "ripped off" by a so called breeder who advertised in the Bristol Evening Post the breeder never supplied a pedigree she made excuse after excuse lost in the post etc.etc when i eventually threatened legal action the cow had the cheek to offer me my money back if I returned my beloved Enya! How do people like that keep getting away with it?

Because people keep buying pups without checking out the breeder first :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, it must be awful for you Carrie. These people know the new owner's not likely to return a pup once they've fallen for it :( They make me mad. I'm just lucky that I was always brought up with dogs and taught how to find a reputable breeder. Not everyone's as lucky. If only there was some way that every pup could only be bought from reputable breeders. I've just no idea how it could be enforced.

I'm sorry about Enya. I'm sure you love her just as much. Was she advertised as KC reg? If so, can you not contact trading standards or the newspaper for false advertising? I know it won't change what's happened to you but perhaps it could stop it happening to someone else.
Dot