Hi ALL

As you know i have got robbie the westie who is now 2 yrs old, my friend has got a westie boy who is 3 and is wanting to get another westie but a little girl this time after the problems i have had with robbie she is going to a show breeder this time as is worried that she may get skin problems as hers has had a few problems but not as bad as i have had, she has been told its  a westie thing and that all westies suffer from itchy skin which is untrue.
She has contacted some breeders that have got pups due and also a couple of the breeders have run on some of the bitches but have now decided to sell them as they haven't met the show standard 2 bitches she has been offered have been 16 and 20 weeks old fully innoculated she asked me what i thought but i haven't got any idea whether this is a good idea or not i know when i was at dog training somebody there was talking about older pups and they said if the pup wasn't socialised properly and housetrained by 16 weeks they would never be clean and that you would always have problems with them being dirty.
Do older pups fit in better with an existing dog or is an 8-10 week old pup better? The breeders have said that an older pup would be better with an exisiting dog and that there have never been problems with them fitting in to another household but thought i would post on here and see different views

It depends so much on the individual dogs plus of course what the breeder has done to socialise. I got my first Cavalier at 14 weeks, he'd been run on by the breeder -he was wonderful, never a problem. When he died after 15 years I contacted the same breeder and as it happened she had a 6 month old pup available. Brought Monty home to my 5 Papillons and within 24 hours it was as if he'd always lived here. One of my Paps, Bobby who had been best friends with Rufus the first Cavalier, took about a week to accept Monty but then he discovered that he had a great new friend.

My Malinois would not accept a 6 month old as easily, so it's definitely a difference between breeds. And some breeds need far more socialisation than others.

not true about an older pup being hard to house train, well not in my case anyway. i got my last at about six months, she'd never been inside a house before and so i had to start toilet training from scratch. we did have a few accidents and weeing on the dog bed but i think that was to mark her place as we have two other dogs. anyway she was pretty easy to toilet train as she could hold herself a lot longer than a puppy. i treated her as if she was only a few weeks old, taking her in the garden every hour, when she woke up and after play etc and she learnt really quickly what to do. the only problems i've had is she missed out on socialisation and although she is a very sweet dog and is good with other others she is nervous of people and strange places. this has improved a lot but she will never be full of confidence, still i love her to bits though. 

> the only problems i've had is she missed out on socialisation and although she is a very sweet dog and is good with other others she is nervous of people and strange places. this has improved a lot but she will never be full of confidence, still i love her to bits though. 

A decent breeder/owner would have socialised her properly,. so it all depends on where the pup comes from as to whether the age matters.

It won't if the dog has been brought up properly for it's age.

The breeder has run 3 little girls on and has decided to let this 1 go as she hasn't reached show potential but for a pet would be perfect, when my friend asked if she was housetrained the breeder said that they are in a puppy run in the utility room at the moment and they do there business on the paper and she cleans it up so she said no she cannot say they are housetrained so not sure whether this would mean it will take longer? She didn't mention to my friend re socialisation so not sure if the pup would have been socialised much.

Well at 16 to 20 weeks I would not want them to be confined to a puppy pen but be going outside to toilet and being actively house-trained, contained at night fine, but not at this age as a matter of course.

Certainly I would be wanting reassurance that pups have been going for walks (individually), been to training classes, be that ring-craft or pet obedience/puppy socialisation.

I kept a puppy from my last litter here to 13 weeks when she was exported to Australia and spent 30 days in Quarantine.  She had been going for walks for the last two weeks before she left, and had been carried about before that.  She has been shown for the last month and a half (they have classes from 3 - 6 months), and just turned 6 months on Friday.

She came out of quarantine with hardly a blip, and her housetraining was well under way.

Basically the pups should have been leading a normal life, not had their lives on 'hold'.

i thought he was a decent breeder as he breed the winner of crufts a few years ago but it seems that doesn't always follow but yes of course your right it does all depend on where the pup comes from. i guess i was unluckly even though i thought i'd done the right thing by going to this breeder, still i'm glad i gave her a home and have the time and patience to give her the best life i can.

That is why you need to look at the life the dogs lead, apart from the show, Obedience, Agility ring, the hill, or the shooting line.

How close is the breeders lifestyle to yours, and if very different are they putting in the work to ensure the pups will fit into a more usual canine lifestyle.

Especially with smaller dogs it is too easy for people to keep more than they can give a full life to, run on several in a litter as they don't take up much space and exercise.

For example I could never cope with the needs of more than one puppy of my breed past 13 to 16 weeks.  I couldn't get away with keeping them in a pen, not taking them for walks and training, but I live in suburbia.

Hamish.
One of ours came to us at 10 months as he hadn't done as well as expected, a lovely beautiful dog who we were to find out after had rarely left his kennel. As a breed that are not the easiest to house train, he was amazing in that he only soiled the house twice in his first day and that in hindsight was probably my fault but after that he would always ask to go out it. As brainless has mentioned a good breeder should socialise their pups but do be aware that this does not always follow. House training a dog what ever the age is something that with thought, consistency & sense of humor is soon achievable but lack of early socialisation leaves lasting effects on some, especialy if early training has been enforced physically. Just make sure you realy know the background, unfortunately some will tell you what you want to hear and you only find out after that it was utter codswallop.