We recently took on  3 year old neutered male who was looking for a new home. We have had him since August and he has settled in very well and been no bother at all until the past couple of days.

As we now have 4 dogs I choose to walk them 2 at a time. Our new dog goes in the second 2 and always has done although I do vary which dog he goes with. A couple of days ago I got the first 2 ready and set off, leaving the other 2 behind. I hadn't even got up the garden path and there was the loudest barking coming from him that I have ever heard almost like he was having a temper tantrum about being left behind. I decided on that morning to ignore it as it wasn't that early.

The same thing hppened again this morning only it was much earlier so I couldn't ignore it, I quickly 'burst' through the front door and told him to shut up and it seemed to shock him enough to stop it as I waited accross the road for a while before setting off to check it didn't hapen again.

I know it is a new thing to be happening as my neighbour who complains at the slightest thing would have moaned by now if it had always happened.

Really i'm just after some advice as to how to stop it as I dont intend on giving in and taking him first!

Sorry to say its no good shouting at him, you've given him a reaction for his behaviour.  Better to come in and ignore totally, don't even look at him at least until you've walked past and taken your coat off.  don't let it last longer than that; i don't believe in make a coffee blah blah first, thats just cruel.

Could you take him with you first, swap the order around who goes when.  Has it co insided withv the fireworks making him a little anxious.

Maybe start back to basics with him, leave for a few seconds and build it up over a few days to reasure him.

Hope it helps until someone else could offer anything further to help him.

It's not a temper tantrum. 

I can see why your instinct might be to put him in the 2nd two, as he's the new boy, but you probably need to be more flexible.  What happens if you do take him first?  If he's had his walk will he just settle down for a snooze whilst you take the next two out or is he still shouting at you?  If it's the latter he may be developing a bit of anxiety about being left and you'll need to tackle that in small steps.

We have recently got a new puppy so my middle boy is having to make adjustments based on the fact that the pup needs quite a bit of attention at the moment.  He gets a bit anxious if he thinks there's a walk/ride in the car happening that he isn't included in so I have to take steps to meet his needs first OR find ways of fooling him into thinking the pup and I aren't actually going anywhere interesting!!

It's not about letting one dog rule the roost but making sure you work with their needs and preferences as much as it's practical to do so.  I sometimes feel my older dog misses out on being 'first' but he genuinely has no need of that position and those are my feelings not his :)

Really if he's been fine since August then not sure why your instincts would be that he's having a temper tantrum - maybe something stressed him while you were out?  It isn' the best idea to try and shock him into not barking, but rather better to deal with the underlying problem.  If he's getting worked up because he wants to be coming out with you then how about givin the two that re left behind a stuffed kong to keep them occupied while you set off with the first two?  That way they have something high value to focus on while the others are getting to go out and you are setting him up to succeed rathern than telkling him off for something :-)

As you have had him for a few months he has probably just realised that he is in his forever home, and doesn't want to lose you. I have to go back to my lot sometimes when they start barking for no real reason (to me anyway ;-) ) and shout at them to shut up. Ignoring them didn't work, they would just get more wound up. I have a friend who has a small back of coins that she throws in the general direction of the dog that barks. It is just enough to startle the dog who then realises that barking isn't going to get the attention he wants. Some dogs would be far more upset by this kind of treatment though, so you need to know the temperament of the dog really well.

> I have to go back to my lot sometimes when they start barking for no real reason (to me anyway ;-) ) and shout at them to shut up.......I have a friend who has a small back of coins that she throws in the general direction of the dog that barks.

I think this is a perfect example of why aversives should not be used - they don't actually teach the dog anything - if they did, there would be no need use them again as 'inapropriate' barking would not be happening.
I agree with karenclynes  and dogsababe - work on the underlying cause, set the dog up for sucess.

> It is just enough to startle the dog who then realises that barking isn't going to get the attention he wants.

But it's obvious the 'startle' effect is not teaching a lesson, it's merely startling the dog into silence for that instance...........

> Has it co insided withv the fireworks making him a little anxious.
>

Good point.

has it been the same dog you leave him behind with ...or are they separated ..if left together maybe one is giving the other the eye..just a thought.

I dont think something in the house can be spooking him as on both occasions I haven't been outside the front door for more than 10 seconds. As for the fireworks, he doesn't seem the least bit bothered by them at all. I do usally leave him in the same rooms as the dog he is left with, on both occasions it has been the dog who he has most developed a friendship with (they constantly play togetehr and love to chase each other round) and he has never shown any problems with her.

He is a very sensitive boy and doesn't like to get in trouble which is why I don't really want to be shouting at him but it's not something I can ignore as sometimes I have to walk them around 6am before work and I can't have him barking the house down at that time!

I do always leave the TV for them and they have stuffed kong when I go to work so didn't really want to 'over do-it' with them as they may lose their attractiveness if they get them all the time. I think over the next few days i'll leave him for short periods with 1 other dog and video whats going on and causing the barking. I have popped out a couple of times today and left all 4 together and not heard a peep from any of them.

> I have to go back to my lot sometimes when they start barking for no real reason (to me anyway ;-) ) and shout at them to shut up. Ignoring them didn't work, they would just get more wound up. I have a friend who has a small back of coins that she throws in the general direction of the dog that barks. It is just enough to startle the dog who then realises that barking isn't going to get the attention he wants.

Please don't do this.

He might be ok with 'mum' around and the fireworks going off but if your not there he could have a whole new strategy of what could happen.  You say its only just started the last few days, so have lots of bangs and pops.

Could you take him on the first walk?

I do always leave the TV for them and they have stuffed kong when I go to work so didn't really want to 'over do-it' with them as they may lose their attractiveness if they get them all the time. I think over the next few days i'll leave him for short periods with 1 other dog and video whats going on and causing the barking. I have popped out a couple of times today and left all 4 together and not heard a peep from any of them.

You could fill one with spreading cheese and one with pate, they are high value which is the point of them, it really isn't going to over do it to give them two kongs a day and will likely help relieve that initial problem if it just you getting out the door with the other dogs.  If you don't went to do two kongs then do a differnt ype of interactive toy that can be stuffed with something speical.  If he's a sensitive lad it is much better than shouting at him and his sensitivity may well be what is causing the barking inthe first place! :-)

I have worked with two of my own dogs that came to me with SA nad countelss others that had some worries or insecuritites about people going out. Really you don't overdo it by giving them high value things when you go out, it just builds a stronger association.  However if he does start worrying about you going out and you don;t find a wqay of dealing with it now then you could find it progresses quickly.  I would start making any time you go out an association with something good happening, whether that is used as a distraction or whehter it is because he is worried aobut you going out, it will help either way.

Just do not believe the Temper Tantrum, dogs do not do temper and it is far more likely to be stress. Would it not be easier to take him first to save him and you stress.

> on both occasions it has been the dog who he has most developed a friendship with

But on your first post, you say that you "vary" the dog he goes with.  Which would say that the one he stays at home with changes too.  I'm puzzled 

Agree with Nova, dogs don't do temper tantrums.  I feel that you are setting him up to fail.  I don't understand why he can't sometimes be in the first set of walkies.  Do you feel that you are "putting him in his place" by making him wait?

I do vary the dog he goes with but on both occasions when it has happened (it has only happened twice) I have left him home with his 'favorite' one as walked them together, not for any particular reason its just the way it worked out on those days.

>Really i'm just after some advice as to how to stop it as I dont intend on giving in and taking him first!

If you rotate the other dogs why are you so set against taking this lad first sometimes? 

(It's not giving in! It's giving him what he may need :) )

You might find it better to stick to a routine and take the same dogs out each time. I had to do this with my dogs as I found when I swapped and changed  they would all get wound up and excited about both walks as they never knew whether they would be going out first or second and the dogs that went out second would bark when left.
For the last few months I have taken the same dogs out together  in the same order and that has worked much better. The first dogs are up and excited for their walk and the second dogs barely lift their heads when I go out and stay snoozing until I get back. Then the first dogs settle down for their snooze while I take the second dogs out. Both groups of dogs are much happier knowing exactly when they will get their walk

> Both groups of dogs are much happier knowing exactly when they will get their walk

Yes they are definitely creatures of habit - mine make a fuss when I put on a particular coat and shoes that I usually walk them in but never fuss when I'm in my work clothes. They also make a fuss if I or OH takes one out as we normally take all three but never whimper when my dad takes them out singly!

Jumping in late here, but as you have the same breed as me I'd actually say you have a breed specific behaviour here. Malinois scream, they sing, they are impatient, they hate it when somebody gets to go for a walk which isn't them. Every time I leave the house with some dogs the others will bark and bark, wanting to come. It's the way they are. Just like how they often sing for the first few minutes of a walk, often until they are let off the lead (impatience again), and do the same in the car for the first few minutes. I know a lot do it as I get told the same story over and over by friends and puppy buyers. "Singing" is being generous anyway, it's more demented seagull noise LOL.

I'd never, ever use any aversive methods on this breed. If I was you I'd take your new boy first every time, and if that was impossible, leave a big juicy meaty bone at home for him -I don't think a stuffed Kong would be interesting enough for a Malinois. Most of the time the wish to be with the owner outweighs absolutely everything else. I've even seen a male Malinois take more interest in his owner than a bitch in season ready for him -to the point that he would not even mate.

Thanks Marianne, its good to get a reply from someone who knows the breed. Both of the other 2 Mali's scream and make 'chimp' noises when someone else is doing something they want to be doing (particularly if 1 is doing clicker training in the garden or agility at the field and the other is in the van), I guess because he has been so quiet until now I hadn't expected it from him and rather than scream he just barks!

I took all 4 together today so didn't have an issue but I will try taking him first with Megan (his favorite), only thing is I can bet as Heidi will be left with the other dog she will then start too! I'll try the bone and kong stuff too but i'm not holding my breath on that one!

I have/have had Belgian Tervs, and I find the one thing that they find very hard to cope with is a dashing of expectations and being left when they expect to be able to come (hence i try to always ensure they are expecting the right thing, if you see what I mean).
My current girl can be left with no problems when we are out - but if she thought she was going for a walk (for example) andthen was not, she'd have a pure emotional reaction.

She's had them before when greeting friends when out - if something thwarts her, say if friend has a new dog she's not met, she gets deeply upset and seems in deep conflict. During life training, I've made it a priority to teach them to cope better with frustration etc and do this gently using clicker, and various self control exercises.

They are sensitive souls :)

Lindsay
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