Ok, sorry if this is a boring post but what are your opinoins on the above foods, which is nutritionally better and which provides better value for money

The reason I am asking is that I have 2 small boys, one of which seems to have itchy skin and wasn't suited on JWB, I have tried samples of Simpsons, Burns and both lseem to like them but I want a food that suits them both and is right for them both

JMO but different food suit different dogs and you may have to try a food for at least 6 weeks to know how a particular dog will do on it. I only have personal experience of Fish4dogs and Arden Grange both of which are good foods

> but I want a food that suits them both and is right for them both

You may well find that what suits one won't necessarily suit the other and you would need to feed them longer than a small sample bag would last to get the full benefits/effects from the food.

My personal choice from your list would be Acana as I prefer a grain-free food. Acana is available in 3 varieties which I also like (they say variety is the spice of life!).

You obviously type faster than me Nova!

Hi Pedlee

Is there a reason why grain free is better, I thought Brown Rice was ok for dogs?

Personal preference I suppose. But my way of thinking is that a dog in the wild wouldn't eat cooked rice, or any other grain for that matter, and I know a number of dogs that do much better on a grain-free diet. I feel it is more appropriate to feed a high protein, low carbohydrate diet. With any kibble, some carbohydrate is needed to ensure the kibble keeps it's shape - Acana/Orijen use potato/sweet potato but their kibble is mainly meat unlike a lot of others which are predominantly grain - very unnatural IMO. I feed a predominantly raw diet but do add a small handful of complete as a topper to some meals (I have large dogs).

Thanks Pedlee, I see your point and its very valid

Burns do a Pork and Potato their nutriorition analysis is as follows;

Potato (min 35%)
Pork meat meal (min 29%)
Maize
Peas
Pork fat
Seaweed
Minerals & Vitamins

Also would you class Maize as a grain, as I know there are some varietys out there which contain maize instead of rice

I personally would find a complete food which has the highest content being meat or fish and not meat meal.
I currently feed AG, not tried Acana but if like Orijen which is great then try that.
Fish4Dogs is another I'd also consider

What you feed is a personal choice, many try to feed what they feel is available in the wild but our dogs a far removed from the wild almost as much as we are so if it pleases you to feed whole carcase along with some wild berries and roots that is fine if the dog is doing well but if on the  other hand you are more confident feeding something that is scientific produced to contain the dietary requirements of the domestic dog then you will feed the best you can afford again if you are happy with your dogs condition.

Different methods of feeding rouses strong feeling but all people and dogs are different so we have to do the best we can that will give our dogs a balanced and healthy diet. Some are confident enough to feed a diet they make up themselves other like me rely on ready made, dogs in general manage to lead healthy lives no matter what they are fed.

> Also would you class Maize as a grain, as I know there are some varietys out there which contain maize instead of rice

Yes, I would class maize as a grain.

IMO a diet containing only 29% meat isn't suitable for a creature that is basically a carnivore. If I were to only feed a kibble I'd go for Orijen (70% meat/fish, 30% veg/herbs, 0% grain).

I agree with Nova, whatever you feed your dogs is down to personal preference at the end of the day.

Thanks for all your help, i'll have a look into Acana or perhaps Fish4dogs

I feed one dry complete int he morning and 1 wet complete in the afternoon/evening (Nature Diet or Fish4Dogs Salmon Mousse)

Apart from Acana, Orijen and Fish4Dogs are there any other complete foods with a higher meat content (obviously ones I can buy in the UK

We use a food called Symply which is made in UK and has good ingredients list. We have been using it for 4 months on our girl who had dull itchy coat and sensitive tummy and she now looks fab! They also do money back if your not 100% happy.

Applaws is another high meat complete and is made in the UK (http://mpmproducts.co.uk/applaws_dry_dog_food.asp?in_section=applaws). They also do tinned food. (There is also a thread running on this at the moment)

There is also Ziwipeak which is an air-dried food, not a kibble. They also do tinned food. Details can be found here: http://www.bernpetfoods.co.uk/acatalog/ZiwiPeak_Daily_Dog_Cuisine.html

Bern also supply Orijen and Acana so you can find out about them on the same site.

I have just swapped my 2 onto Fish4Dogs, Mia's on sardine & Curtis is on white fish.  They weren't overly enthusiastic about it to begin with but both are now clearing their bowls and I am adding some of F4D salmon oil to the dogs' dinners too.   Their toilet is a lot firmer, first poo's of the morning are like stones!

What are peoples thoughts on Barking Heads?

Ok so in terms of meat content, taste of the wild, acana, orijen, applaws and fish4dogs look pretty good

However, they are quite high in protein and fat, is this safe?

I'd suggest you have a look at the Orijen Q&As and make up your own mind. It makes more sense to me to feed a high protein/fat diet to a species which has evolved to do just that, than a diet loaded with grains and low in protein.

The link is: http://www.bernpetfoods.co.uk/acatalog/faqs.html#qoh_promote

Thanks Pedlee, its vey informative an reassuring

Think I will try and stick to a high protein and meat content diet

Is 50g of dry on a morning and 1/4 tray of Naturediet on an evening enough for them both? they both weigh between 6.5 - 8kg

I also give them a dentastix or bulls pizzle daily

If they are looking OK on that amount it should be fine. If they look a bit roly-poly cut it down, if you can easily feel their ribs and they are prominent, up the amount.

> There is also Ziwipeak which is an air-dried food, not a kibble. They also do tinned food. Details can be found here: [url=http://www.bernpetfoods.co.uk/acatalog/ZiwiPeak_Daily_Dog_Cuisine.html" rel=nofollow]http://www.bernpetfoods.co.uk/acatalog/ZiwiPeak_Daily_Dog_Cuisine.html[/url]
>

I've been looking at these and a silimal one, I like the idea as I thought of doing this at home.  I already dry my freash meat for them (amazing how it goes down).  I've thought about trying to do the veggies with it bu this would save me the trouble.

Do you think mine will be getting the same benefits from the dried meat as if they had it fresh.  Its meant to keep all the nourishment.

> Do you think mine will be getting the same benefits from the dried meat as if they had it fresh.  Its meant to keep all the nourishment.

I would say the most natural way would be to feed it raw. As soon as anything is cooked some of the nutrients are lost. IMO air-dried would be better than cooked but not as good as raw. For convenience the air-dried would certainly be easier.

Thanks Pedlee.

I've put a new post up.  I do a little of both with some other concerns.

Its hard work getting them a balanced diet lol.

One things i've noticed before, its on the subject of complete meals, is that dogs fed on really cheap meals have beautiful glossy coats and have no trouble being of a correct weight.

Makes you wonder sometimes if we're mad to care so much.  i took mine off Eukanuba incase the roumours were true, i found nothing to counteract the allegations.  My girls coats were fantastic on it and a good weight.  I though i was giving them a good food.

Now I'm really picky what i buy them and i'm paying the price with their weight and coat.

I tried feeding them the same and ended up with wall to wall pooh.

I feed Jake Border Collie Beta he has had the same since weaning!!

Whistler has settled finally on Science Plan (Hills) Cocker Spaniel.

Whistler's is dearer but he eats less and both have lovely coats amd wet noses and firm pooh!!

I think that the glossy coats are down to the oil content of such food. I had to take our dogs off one type of food (can't remember which as we tried so many with our first & fussiest dog, all our fault of course) as they are rough-coated and he was developing a lovely shiny coat but not the required undercoat...
We tried a wide range (including BARF, which they loved but I ended up getting salmonella from the raw chicken wings even though I constantly washed my hands) and have eventually settled for Burns Canine Alert. It keeps them all at the right weight and feeling full, plus they are calm and sensible on it. Can't recommend it enough, as all four of ours love it and it's given them good, correct coats. Plus, I also rate Dorwest Keeper's Mix.

i have just moved mine to Omnipro complete, and all including those with allergies and coat problems  have all been fab on it, been using for over a month now and so far im very impressed

Hi all!

I dont know if someone has mentioned it but Barking Heads is what I feed my pup! They are 100% natural. Check out the link:

http://www.barkingheads.co.uk

Below is what is in the Puppy food.
Ingredients:

Fresh British Chicken (min 22%), Dried Chicken (min 21%), Brown Rice (min 21%), Ground Oats, Dried Salmon (min 10%), Potato, Chicken Fat, Sunflower Oil, Dried Egg, Salmon Oil, Minerals, Dried Tomato, Dried Carrot, Natural Seaweed, Vitamins, Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM



Typical Analysis:

Protein 28%, Fat 18%, Fibre 2.5%, Ash 8%, Moisture 8%, Vitamin A 20000 iu/kg, Vit D3 1800 iu/kg, Vit E (Tocopherols) 690 iu/kg, Copper 11 mg/kg, Omega 6 (linoleic acid) 4.4%, Omega 3 (linolenic acid) 1%

>>> We use a food called Symply which is made in UK and has good ingredients list. We have been using it for 4 months on our girl who had dull itchy coat and sensitive tummy and she now looks fab! They also do money back if your not 100% happy.

We have had excellent results with this food, although I have to drive 20 miles to get it as not many pet stores seem to stock it.

I am glad to hear from somebody else who uses this food as most people tend not to of heard of it, but our girl looks fab on it and I think it has very good ingredients. Not easy to get hold of, but luckily our pet shop sells it only 5 mins away!

i was thinking of buying symply dog food but it has corn gluten.
Corn causes hyperactivity in dogs according the the dog trainer Victoria Stilwell.
Corn gluten is added to pet food to slow down the transition of rancid animal fats, to slow down the rotting process. i don;t think it's healthy if a dog eats a high percentage of corn gluten.

my dogs eat fish4dogs. i'm interested in the barking heads as well.

Symply certainly didn't cause hyper in my dog Pro Plan has but Symply doesn't  contain high enough fat to put body on and they do not state how much calcium is in it and when you ring they cannot tell you.

The Salmon and Potato is very similar to Symply even to the brake down. What is Dicaicium phosphate is that different to just calcium which others state.

I've found this site [url=][http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main/url] to be invaluable,it is an American site so it's not all relative to us, but it is an independent site so not trying to push any one food and might put your mind at ease on the topic of high protein. I was paranoid as hell when I first started using Orijen, which I did about 3 years ago, but the difference in the dogs was amazing ( previously fed JWB) I now feed raw.

> i was thinking of buying symply dog food but it has corn gluten. Corn causes hyperactivity in dogs according the the dog trainer Victoria Stilwell. Corn gluten is added to pet food to slow down the transition of rancid animal fats, to slow down the rotting process. i don;t think it's healthy if a dog eats a high percentage of corn gluten.

OK - i've only just noticed this.
Are we talking Wheat gluten here, or Maize?
Gluten is wheat protein & comes from Wheat, which we call corn in the UK.
It's called something else (name escapes me!) when it's from Maize, which is what Americans call Corn....
(confused? you will be!). So it depends on WHERE Victoria Stillwell was living or broadcasting when she said that, and whether she was precise about it being Gluten (wheat) or Maize.

Hallo Champdogs
There seems to be a little confusion regarding corn, so hopefully I can help a little.
Firstly - corn is also known as maize as Ms T says.
Wheat is a different crop to corn/maize. There are sub-species of wheat such as spelt, and it can also be used to make hybrid crop plants.

It is the glutenin and gliadin in wheat (the storage proteins) which create gluten. However, the storage proteins of other grains (particularly those with high levels - rye, oats and barley) are often also referred to as gluten as an umbrella term, although technically this isn't entirely true. All grains have a protein fraction (which enables reproduction when growing in the wild), and the storage proteins (prolamins) within rye, barley and oats are all quite similar to those in wheat which is why most human coeliacs have to avoid them as well.

"Corn gluten" is a manufactured rather than natural ingredient (it's a by-product of whole-grain corn/maize) which is typically used as a protein source in animal feed (not as an antioxidant). Whilst the majority of us prefer our dogs to eat high quality proteins from animal sources rather than plant, the prolamin in corn does differ in a significant way to that of wheat; so it is safe for most coeliac humans and animals. Corn gluten - being extracted cereal protein - however, does have greater potential to be a dietary allergen. Whole grain corn is less provocative since the protein content is much lower because the carbohyrate/fibre is also utilised.

Forgot to add; not all allergies are threshold based though. This is often misinterpreted to mean that low protein diets are less allergenic. This is not necessarily the case; so much depends on the individual dog and the specific allergen/s he reacts to.

i am currently using Barking Heads for my puppy....it one of the only complete dry foods that contain MSM, Glucosmaine & chondrotin in evey catagory they make. Woody loves it. Barking Heads was brought out after Nutro went bankrupt. A couple of the Nutro workers got together and it resulted in Barking Heads. I used Nutro for Alfy and it was great for him, so i have every confidence that Barking Heads is just as good. And it came highlt recommeded.

I would never use Pedigree Chum Or Bakers..........full of rubbish.

Packaging that says, for example just 'Chicken and/with rice' is alot better than one that says rich in or with chicken and rice, beef, duck or whatever.
The ones that just Chicken and rice or duck etc have a higher meat content and alot less if an rubbish in.

I have been told the above by Hill's, Iams, Eukanuba, Canine and James Welbeloved Reps. I dont often see reps for Pedigre chum?.....wonder why? haha.

I have very happily used Burns & would do again - don't use it now due to cost with number of dogs. I currently use Ag & my dogs do very well on it & have no hesitance in recommending it. I also raised a fab litter of pups on AG puppy food. Am adding some Fish4Dogs to the AG for my next litter as I believe that to be a good food. Sadly TOTW is well beyond my means :-( so can't comment on that one.

Right we've tried Acana now and it went down well after winning it at a show last year, but even so with the price i'm still happy with AG, the products and service I get there I won't be going anywhere..

We use Arden Grange mostly although my old girl has and prefers Orijen.

They also have lots of raw fruit and veg on a weekly basis.

I have used:

Royal canin.
Fish4dogs.
Simpsons.
JWB.
Burns.
CSJ.

I have found for half of my dogs royal canin is best and the other half Fish4dogs and JWB mixed works best.

In choosing a dog food for my dogs I always look at the people who make it to find out their policy , I use the good shopping guide http://www.ethical-company-organisation.org/ They list  these approved  companies , Burns , Europa , lilys Kitchen , Organi pets , Trophy Pet foods and Yarrah  all carry the Ethical tick .

They also have a list of companies who don't measure up to ethical practises and they get a cross, Bakers, Eukanuba, Iams, Pedigree and Hills.

I use Trophy as direct result of this book and have nothing but praise for their product, they way it's made, they way they list ingredients and the fact it's made in the UK supporting UK farming in the process. But most importantly the dogs thrive on it.

I know its politically incorrect but I cant see the point in buying any dog food that's made in other countries , shipped half way round the world  (and you have to pay  for that )  when here in the UK we have companies who will provide excellent food .    

Most of the companies listed as approved are small independent companies. Who when you look closely are more likely to promote their products with the best interest of their customers and pets rather than for  massive profits.   

I feed Simpsons "cereal free" Lamb and Potatoe and find this food excellent quality and at breeder prices you really can't grumble.  45% meat content..!

I'd suggest you have a look at the Orijen Q&As and make up your own mind. It makes more sense to me to feed a high protein/fat diet to a species which has evolved to do just that, than a diet loaded with grains and low in protein.

I totally agree with this..

I cannot see the need/point in filling our dogs with rice and grains..  vegetables, yes..

I am thinking of swapping mine onto Orijen. 

Acana is made by the same company who make Orijen,slightly cheaper than Orijen,but an excellent food.

I have swapped onto this and am thrilled with it.

Dogs are meant to eat protein, not grains. I know it is expensive and their marketing is excellent, so very well presented but my dogs love it and I do feel that it is a quality food.

I have always wondered why so many are frightened to feed a high protein diet. Dogs are meant to eat protein, it is high calcium levels that i would worry about and these are found in the foods that grind bones (meal) to add to the meat content.. Orijen use quality meats...

As it is a wee bit expensive we are all now on Beans on Toast...lol

> As it is a wee bit expensive we are all now on Beans on Toast...lol

...and with their new food you won't be able to blame the excess wind on the dogs  :)

Hi we have just got another dog a Frenchie,she came with a bag of Fish4Dogs as Frenchies can suffer with the dreaded itches so they have found out by the long way that if they wean their litters on to this they tend not to be itchy,she also has the Fish4Dogs salmon mousse. Our boxer and Boston are both on Arden Grange and are doing really well with no adverse reactions,we did try Orijen on the boxer but she was so I'll on it she had to be put on a drip and yes it was introduced very slowly over 6 weeks so she went back on Arden Grange and never looked back.

Hi.
I tried quite a few brands from all price shelves.
I wanted to provide my dogs with best complete food possible and after reading loads of reviews I went for Orijen (quite interesting comparison website: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showcat.php/cat/8/page/2)
My 4yo rottweiler was ok but to be honest she could eat stones and thrive on it! During three or four weeks of Orijen feeding I have not found one single solid poop from my younger one.
I spent more money on disinfectants to clean up the garden than on food itself.
Then we tried Royal Canin, Iams, ProPlan and some cheap Supermarket food. The lower price bracket we went, the better visuals I had in the garden. (sic!)
Thanks to Champdogs forum I found CSJ. Never heard of them before and I was disappointed with nasty white and green bags.
To cut the long story short, I am very happy with my dogs shovelling this food and even more with the "outcome". Although MAIZE, WHEAT and PRAIRE MEAL in their ingredients chart makes my skin crawl, I think we have found an optimum and ultimate diet.
And please believe me, it wasn't financial reasons for change. I like my dogs to actually eat the food and even better, to profit from eating it.

Thanks all for the really helpful and enlightening comments here.
Have a 2 yo Italian Spinone boy who has repeated intermittent bouts of diarrhoea (about once a fortnight) - he's not a scavenger and as it's intermittent and had vet check (who pronounced all well) I'm assuming it might be reservoir water, where he's walked daily, causing the problem??
Have tried him on a variety of foods - he can be quite picky and hated fish4dogs!  Usually feed good quality (James Wellbeloved) complete in the morning with 1/4 tray Nature's Diet to make it palatable; and raw meat (breast of lamb/scrag end of neck) in the eve, sometimes with Fold Hill plain mixer and Keepers Mix for the vits/mins.

I did find that reducing meal size and feeding him 3 x daily + NOT adding any water at all when feeding the complete helped a lot (he glugs down water 10 mins later but that seems fine) - but still he gets these regular bouts.  Pro-kolin stops it but I don't wanna go thru 2 tubes a week at a tenner each!

Have just ordered a 12Kg bag of Simpson's Chicken and Potato after successfully trialling him on their stuff from free samples, but does anyone have any other ideas?  Cheers

I have a new pup who was on Burns, but she just didn't gain any weight, no matter how much of it I fed her.  Really thin.  so changed her onto naturediet as that is what my other dog is on.  What a difference in one week!