Hope someone can give me some good advice! Lost our two 14 year old Labs this year and got two pups 7 weeks ago. The breeder recommended the BARF diet but our vet didn't and - long story short - they're on Hill's Science Plan. I'm following the feed amounts to the letter and the pups look strong and healthy but I'm concerned that they're very active and they may not be getting enough food. I've only ever had one puppy at a time and two pups together do a lot of tearing around the paddocks and play-fighting with each other - does this change their calorific requirements? The people at Hill's have given me a fairly generalised reply to my enquiry, saying that I'm feeding the correct amount for the pups' age. Also, what to give them to assuage their chewing instincts? They have raw carrot and apple (which they love but I don't want to 'OD' them on) and they're not remotely interested in nylabones. My old dogs loved rawhide and pigs' ears, but I gather that current thinking is against both of these items ...

I sippose I sound like a neurotic 'mum' - and I'm aware that the emphasis now is on avoiding overweight dogs - but I also know that the first 6 months of their lives are critical in establishing their long-term health and I don't want to be making any (unavoidable) mistakes.

I would be far more concered about them tearing around the paddock and playfighting at this stage than feeding (although good feeding is a high priority)   Your pups are more likely to do more damage to their delicate joints if allowed to continue this and could have serious problems, both behavioural and skeletal... Very few breeders would sell 2 Labrador pups into the same home, and most breeders who keep 2 pups from the same litter, seperate them for much of the time, allowing perhaps, 2 or 3 10mins controlled play sessions per day.  Training each pup individually, and then together.  They need to learn to interact with and without each other, and you may also find they will become dependant on each other, and completely ignore you as they get older...

I cannot comment on the Hills, I have never used it.. but I would not take a vets instruction on feeding unless there were good medical reasons.  Raw is perfectly fine for a growing puppy, but most good well balanced commercial feed is acceptable... I have raised 5 litters on raw (changing to kibble for new owners, keeping my own on raw)  I stopped this when both my outside dog freezers blew up last winter  but are still fed a mix of kibble and raw tripe.

The guidelines of any bag of food is simply that, a Guide, some dogs need more, others need less..

Teething might be helped with a freezing a soaked towel, while giving them something to chew, it also helps cool the gums

Hills is a good if expensive food but although I have not fed it for a while I always found it a very palatable Junior and puppy food but I have never fed an adult on it.

Thanks, Kay - but I think I feel more worried now!

Sorry, I didn't mean to worry you.. written word is a bit harsher than the spoken.. and possibly came across a bit scary :-)

All that is needed is a smaller fenced off area for pups to play...   ideally an area large enough for fun and games, but small enough to limit their running speed, and limit the risk of barging into each other with force.. :-)

Thanks again, Kay. I am beginning to think that starting again with pups is a bit like having grandchildren: all the rules have changed since first time around! I do appreciate your advice. We wanted two pups as our last two dogs were only 7 months apart in age and were fantastic companions for each other - and to us - all of their lives. In fairness to the breeder, she was only willing to part with two puppies together as we'd kept Labs previously (and they'd lived to a good old age). We can't change that now and will just have to do our best.

The breeder recommended the BARF diet but our vet didn't and - long story short - they're on Hill's Science Plan.

I'm guessing the vet recommended Hills?! There's a very tasty mark up on it!!

Not a fan of Hills at all!!!
Why were you not keen to follow your breeders advice?

Breeder was wonderful & have every faith in her. However, only one butcher in my area was willing to supply raw bones and my vet (who is also my son-in-law and extremely well qualified with a family history of Lab ownership) pointed out that the bones I was requesting were not - anatomically - the bones I was receiving. He was very unhappy to see puppies eating whole bones. In addition, the butcher in question enquired at the local abattoir about buying in raw green tripe for me and was told that this was now only available to butchers under special license. Also, I have to say I was concerned at my ability to ensure that I got the correct balance of raw food and bones: too much calcium is apparently as detrimental as too little at this stage. Hence the decision to go for a complete balanced food.

(I should also point out that I don't buy my Hill's from a veterinary practice but source it as economically as possible online. My son-in-law had absolutely nothing to gain financially from his recommendation.)

I don't think pups are too fussed about which bones they get to eat.  I buy my bones from the local supermarket and also have a butcher friend who has one of my dogs.  There are also lots of places that supply tripe.  OK, it might not be 'green' but it stinks to high heaven and my lot love it :-) and it comes without too many additives.  I am sure that if you spoke to the breeder she would help in drawing up a balanced diet for your pup.  Anything would be better than complete (Hills or anything else).  Your breeder is the expert here no matter where or what you pay for the complete.

The Dog Food Company supply green tripe along with everything else you'd need for their diet, I agree your breeder would of course help you with this. There are plenty of other online suppliers too if they don't deliver to you.
Not trying to push you, but the problems you express are easily over come. :o)
What I would say though, if you have to feed complete, Hills is not a good choice, IMO.

As you see those who feed raw are some what evangelical and I have to admit in the past I too was enthusiastic until I looked into what constituents a good diet for a canine and decided that I was not able to cope with the stress of preparing a home produced complete diet so I feed complete.

At first I felt guilty when I read others enthusiastic enforcement of feeding raw but I soon got over it and have to say have been feeding complete since the 1970s. My dogs have been long lived (every one) and all have been fit and energetic with very few visits to a vet.

I don't feel guilty now and encourage people to feed as they feel able but also to feed the best they can afford and learn to read the contents label in the same way we do for our own food even that on raw food as that can have been treated with chemicals you would not wish to feed (does not or should not apply to meat sold for human consumption)  but do not forget the diet requirements of the dog is not the same as that of humans.

Good luck with your endeavours to find a suitable food for your new puppy and lucky you having a tame vet with no axe to grind, however do remember that vet do not always know best but yours should explain the reason for his comment if asked which is why you are fortunate.

Jackie, thank you so much for your post! We have cared for many animals (kunekune pigs, sheep, chickens, ducks, cats etc, etc) and I have accessed and contributed to many online discussion groups for support, as well as giving support - in turn - over issues about which I have a lot of experience. One of my daughters pointed out that only those with strong opinions on a topic are more likely to post replies, so I do understand why many people waxed lyrical about their preferred feeding method.

I reached the decison to go down the commercially produced complete feed route having discussed it with the breeder & my son-in-law and investigated the availabilty (and effort required to ensure complete balance) in the raw food diet. I have no regrets about my decision - I was simply hoping for responses from people who fed the diet I had chosen, giving their experiences (hence the post's title). Never having had two pups at the same time (and what a can of worms that opens too!), I wondered how that might impact on calorific requirements. My puppies don't constantly fight & tear around, but I suspect that they are more active than a single pup left to its own devices for longer periods of the day ...

If I'm entirely honest, I haven't really recovered from the loss of my two old girls and it has left me a bit 'low' and lacking in confidence over many things. Total responsibility for two new little lives can sometimes feel quite overwhelming!

Thanks again for taking the time to give your comments.

Sorry for butting in lol But it blows my mind how vets always reccomend Hills over other diets. I would be asking my vet their opinion on the carcinogenic chemicals Butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA) and butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT) used in Hills. I by no means think raw is the only way to feed a dog, and do give mine dry from time to time, but never Hills.

Good luck and I hope you find the answers you're looking for. :o)

There are many a topic about feeding dry foods and the reason why some of us feed certain brands over others. It maybe worth having a read through them to see why some complete foods are much better than others. Looking at grain or no grain content, meat or fish content etc. Other ingredients, are they really necessary. Its an interesting subject and not are we all different in our way of thinking but what is seen as a great food may actually not suit another one.

It be looking at the output of the pups and making sure its firm and also not pooing excessive amounts, if they are then maybe you need to be looking at another food.

Good luck :-)

Everyone has their own opinion on feeding, some won't touch for example Burns, others swear by it.  We feed Royal Canin to all of our Frenchies and to one of the old Boxers (she's now just turned 13).  We feed Hills Nature's Best to the other Boxer oldie (9 yrs) he's in fantastic condition and most importantly he loves it. 

If they're doing well on Hills I would leave them on it, if you feel they need a little bit more food then try them with a little more.  We popped in to see one of the puppies from our last litter in his new home a couple of weeks ago and he doesn't eat as much as our two who play together and are far more active.

Thanks for these really helpful & reassuring responses! The pups look to be in tip top condition, produce healthy poohs and love the food, so I think I'll stick with what I'm doing, in the knowledge that I have some leeway in the amount I'm feeding them if I consider they could take a little more.