Hi

I wonder if anyone can help my with a query on KCGCDS rules?

I have a dog who has a medical condition.  It is not obvious to the eye but if he were to get loose and lost he would be exremely vulnerable until found.

When he was a puppy I bought an adjustable high viz, reflective collar from Orvis who agreed to personalise this collar with an alert warning of his disability plus our phone number instead of their usual personailsed dog's name.  This collar was not cheap £25 plus pp = £30.  He wears this collar ALL the time.

Obviously, as this was expensive I wanted it to last so instead of using this collar to clip his lead to I add a half check for training and going out for walks and clip his lead to this.

We have been attending classes since he was a pup.  In May my instructor thought he was ready for his Bronze.  I wasn't quite sure as sometimes he ws not as attentive as I would like when weaving through people and dogs exercise.  I chose to put off the Bronze till the next test date.  In the meantime we progressed to working all the Silver exercises and did more work on the Bronze weaving bit.

In August my instructor advised she had set a new test date of 18 Sept. Not only is my instructor happy that he is ready for these tests but so am i.  She said then that the assessor had said there is a rule that dogs can't wear 2 collars.  Historically dogs have often worn 2 collars.   I have been an instructor for Good Citz for years before I retired and was also an Assessor.  I had never heard this rule before.

I spoke to an experienced, long-standing staff at KC and was told the exercises are not about the number of collars a dog wears but about suitability, size and condition for the dog and purpose.  She said 2 collars were fine providing neither ws a training aid (ecollar, citronella etc) and to tell my instructor to clear this up with the assessor before the test date.  I did and carried on working for the test.

Last week in class it transpired my instructor had not yet done this so she contacted the KC, spoke to another member of staff who agreed with the assessor and said a dog can only wear one collar.  My instructor then referred back to the assessor telling him we now had 2 versions of this 2 collar rule.

My instructor and I have both asked where is this 'only one collar'/can't be 2 collar' rule is written and no-one can/will answer us.  We have gone through all the Handbook and all the specification sheets and can't find where there has been a change from it being acceptable for dogs to wear 2 collars to being able to wear only one.

My own instructor took all of her tests with her dog wearing 2 collars, a flat and half check and nothing was said by any of the assessors.

The first person I spoke to at the KC has now over-ruled the assessor but as this same assessor  is doing the test it is untenable for me to meet her.

The disappointment at working for nearly a year to do these tests only to find we can't unless I remove his 'alert' collar leaving him vulnerable, especially on road walk exercises has been enormous.  I am no longer even thinking of doing the test at all the effect of all this confusion and disappointment has left me gutted.  As the pupil I have just been buffeted about for almost a week with only 2 days left now before the test date while others squabble and blame each  other for the breakdown in communication.

So, does anyone out there who is an Assessor know when this rule was introduced?  Does anyone know where this rule is written?  Does anyone know how instructors, whose club is Listed Status are supposed to know about changes in rules to ensure they don't present people unprepared for test?

What is so heartbreaking about this is that my dog would not be refused the test on his performance, behaviour, suitability but on a technicality because he has a serious physical defect that others should know about immediately should he find himself loose in a public place and needs to wear a second collar alerting of this condition.

Just to respond quickly to you - I was approved this weekend as a KC GCDS Bronze Examiner, I would have had the most up to date information as our course was done only a few days ago and there is no rule that states the dog cannot wear 2 collars.

The main rule is that a dog wears a collar with a lead that attaches to it i.e. no slip leads allowed.

There is no reason why the examiner cannot let your dog take part.

Thank you so much.

I have been up to the attic at weekend where all my old redundant notes are from my training seminars and assessors course and I couldn't find it either.

In my notes the only reference I have is where it states 'a dog must be presented on a collar and lead' and this was expanded upon in class (and in my notes) to say it means a separate collar and lead and not an all-in-one (Gencon, Coleash) or a slip lead.

It clearly states you can't use headcollars, muzzles etc etc but there's nothing about 2 collars.

I think someone has put their own interpretation on thins and is going around saying it's a rule but no-one can actually point me in the direction of the 'rule'.

Your message bears this out.

If anyone else can add anymore I would love to hear your replies.

Could you not remove the hi-viz alert collar just for the test? He's going to be safe and in your sight the whole time, isn't he?

The answer is probably in the GC rule book that you can buy from the KC online and that all clubs organising tests SHOULD have a copy of. There are rules in there not mentioned online or in the literature you get.
http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/asp/shop/fullDisplay.asp?item=Good+Citizen+Dog+Scheme+%28GCDS%29+Guidelines&dept=publications

Thanx Marion but that's the Handbook that I referred to in the OP.  I have a copy from my days as an Approved Assessor and my own Listed Status Training club as I myself trained the KCGCDS for years before I retired. 

In my day (gosh doesn't that sound old!!) dogs often wore 2 collars, one they wore all the time, a flat buckle collar with ID and one that was addded (usually a Half Check) when the dog was 'working/training', also with ID if taking the KCGC tests.

> It clearly states you can't use headcollars,

Is that just on test night or the whole way through the course. I attend somewhere which allows these to be used in training and on test night. I personally don't use them but a lot of people do and the trainer encourages them for people who need more control with their dogs.

The Handbook clearly states that

'Examiners should satisfy themselves that when the Halti/headcollar is removed the dog will remain under control.  This applies to all exercises.  Therefore if the examiner requests that a student performs the entire test without the dog wearing this equipment, this must be adhered to'.

Headcollars are sometimes allowed if the Handler has a medical problem - arthritis in the wrists/fingers which makes it difficult for hadler to hold a dog.  In these cirsumstances the Headcollar would be allowed.

If the examiner sees that the using the headcollar is not a 'control' item for the dog in terms of controlling the dogs behaviour then they can wear it but if the headcollar is clearly controlling the dog then they shouldn't be allowed as the dog is not ready for test.

Unfortunately, some examiners are more strict than others and vice versa which makes it unfair for those who work hard to teach their dog to behave without the use of training aids.

I think many use headcollars during training especially in the early days if they have a big, boisterous dog but they shouldn't rely on the continued use under test.

I was allowed to use the headcollar for the road walk during my Silver test with my lad, as it prevented him from stopping and sniffing the ground every few yards. Not 'control' as such, and the examiner said he had already seen in the hall that I had enough control of him on a flat collar to his satisfaction.

Are there any more Assessors out there who have knowledge on the 'one collar only rule' or 'not 2 collar rule' and can point to written evidence of whch rule applies.

Not 'control' as such, and the examiner said he had already seen in the hall that I had enough control of him on a flat collar to his satisfaction.

Exactly!

It may take some time but you should be able to get a letter from the KC to say you can use the 'special' collar during any exercise or test. You could also take the assessment elsewhere I would have thought.

Yes, that's not a problem now as the examiner has been over-ruled but I know I won't do the test on Saturday now because it would be with her and the way I feel I wouldn't be able to work with her so soon after this.

It felt like I had been physically punched in the stomache from last Friday when I got the news and all over the weekend because the KC was closed until Tuesday when someone from the KC finally over-ruled this examiner.

The disappointment to have it all go pear shaped so soon before the test was awful.  There ws confusion between the KC's own staff. Then one of them tried to say my instructor was at fault but I know she had done everything correctly but she couldn't get the examiner to say why she was applying this rule and where it actually was written, it was a mess.

There is now too much bad feeling.  I will do it again but before I present myself for test at another date I want to make sure of the 'rules' so if I meet it again I can deal with it. 

Can you not grit your teeth and do it, will not be you who should feel bad, it will be the examiner who should have known what they were doing in the first place.

This is a hobby and for the good of dogdem and no one has the right to make another feel bad, that is totally against the spirit of the Good Citizen program.

I wish I had known about this earlier! I am doing my bronze at the moment and I could have asked at our dog club. I am a ring craft trainer and not obedience so I cant really help... I will ask next week for you though and let you know the response I get. I too think you should grit your teeth and go for it. I am sure that you do not do any 'off lead' work for your bronze do you??? And we will do it all inside...... Good luck x

> There is now too much bad feeling.  I will do it again but before I present myself for test at another date I want to make sure of the 'rules' so if I meet it again I can deal with it. 

I understand where you're coming from. I did most of my training with one club, but left after a dispute (I was led to believe I was going to have my bronze test after an 8-wk course, but was then told I'd have to come back in another 8 weeks! ). I then rang around and found another school who were happy to take me on, and only had 3 lessons with them before their tests were scheduled. The trainer of that club acts as examiner for a third, 'sister' club and vice versa. Both of those told me that the rules are flexible with regards to using headcollars and harnesses, whereas the first club I was with had said they were a complete no-no. It just doesn't seem to be written down anywhere.

It was good the second class were flexible as I don't drive, so for the 'getting in & out of the car' for Silver test I had to use the trainer's car which my dog had never been in before! Despite most of his travel being by public transport, he passed that with flying colours. I should also add that because his level of training was so good, we were then permitted to take the Silver test straight after passing the Bronze on the same night, and passed that too.... my lad was just over 11 months old at the time.

Ohhhh! We have just had a pointer pass her silver and gold in successive weeks! Lovely dog and dedicated owners :o)

It says in the Guidebook/Handbook that you can do 2 levels of tests at the saem time but they don't advise a 3rd.

So, as I have opted to miss his Bronze in May and worked on until now for his Bronze and Silver combined you can understand the frustration and disappointment at being told he could do neither unless i removed his 'alert' collar!  For Silver he does a road walk and getting in and out of a vehicle, a rejoin handler and coming away from distractions and mostly these are done outside whereas the Bronze exercises are mostly inside.

We've been training for months.  This wonderful examiner told us if he was wearing a flea collar as his second collar it would be OK but as it wasn't one of those he couldn't take his test as the 'rules were the rules'!  We were gobsmacked at this because we couldn't see a difference except the one he has has words written on. 

It IS totally against the spirit of the KCGC but we still can't find where this 'rule' is and like Staff said, she went on an examiners course days ago and it wasn't mentioned then so it's not a new rule being introduced.

Anyway, my instructor is booking another test in a few weeks with a different examiner from a different club so I'll wait until then.

Thanx everyone for your support.

I should've added that this examiner also queried why I used a half check at all (but she changed it when she emailed my instructor to half CHOKE which is contraversial) and suggested that if I couldn't walk him on a flat collar we weren't ready for test!

Well, he's a long haired breed and when you're trying to find the D ring to re-attach lead after recalls etc its quicker and easier to find the ring on the half check or slip it on and off for those exercises.  And half checks are perfectly acceptable for KCGC anyway!

But why add insult to the injury?  In saying that she was inferring that neither I nor my Instructor could recognise or differentiate between a dog ready for test and one that wasn't.  Grrrrrr

I think I will have to avoid tomorrow or I might be inclined to accidently tread on her toes in passing or let my dog jump on her with filthy feet.  Clearly, I could not stomach working with this person and I know exactly where you are coming from Ms Tremeraire with your experience.

> I should've added that this examiner also queried why I used a half check at all (but she changed it when she emailed my instructor to half CHOKE which is contraversial) and suggested that if I couldn't walk him on a flat collar we weren't ready for test!
>

I only ever use (and give them with every puppy going to it's new home) half checks as with a  breed with a heavy ruff it is too easy to have a flat collar way too loose and the dog getting out of it.  If a flat collar is done up tight enough to only allow two finger under it, it is hard to turn the collar and find the D ring to attach the lead on a dog with a big or thick ruff.

Also a Half check sits lower on the neck when not attached to the lead, so being more comfortable 'off duty', which I prefer as mien wear theirs 24/7.

Ohhhh! We have just had a pointer pass her silver and gold in successive weeks! Lovely dog and dedicated owners :o)

I understand how proud everyone will feel.

The reason why I would have felt so proud of my dogs achievement in reaching his Bronze and Silver is that his disability is that he was born DEAF and all his training has been done on hand signals.

This is why I was shocked to find an examiner, who knowing of his disability, refused to allow us to do his test which involves outside off-lead work and a road walk to wear his collar alerting others of his disability.

All through the Handbook the SAFETY of a dog is supposed to be paramount.

But this aside.  No-one can find where it is a rule that dogs can only wear ONE collar or CAN'T wear more than one collar exisits and yet this is the rule that this examiner was applying to us after knowing he was deaf.

only ever use (and give them with every puppy going to it's new home) half checks as with a  breed with a heavy ruff it is too easy to have a flat collar way too loose and the dog getting out of it.  If a flat collar is done up tight enough to only allow two finger under it, it is hard to turn the collar and find the D ring to attach the lead on a dog with a big or thick ruff.

I agree.  And you would think a person who is supposed to be experienced enough to act as an examiner would have a wide experience of dogs in general and ask more relevant questions.  But she didn't.  She made assumptions which were totally improper.

This 'examiner' may well know how to assess KCGC exercises but her understanding of dogs would appear to be very little.

If I had my way she would no longer be carrying the title KCGCDS Examiner/Assessor.

I have been appalled at her ignorance and lack of knowledge and still she won't tell us where this 'rule' that she applied to us actually is!

I'm sure your boy will pass his Bronze and Silver with flying colours in a few weeks time - what a shame that the mix up has put you off the first test. My girl passed Silver & Gold on the same day and it was a bit scary doing both at once, but I was so proud of her. Only time before or since she managed the out of sight stay!

We have our Gold test in 2 weeks, have very little hope this time around, some things he knows but he's doesn't go to bed or down stay out of sight either. His adolescence has got the better of him right now :-)

It clearly states you can't use headcollars,

Is that just on test night or the whole way through the course. I attend somewhere which allows these to be used in training and on test night.

I have PMd the full statement from the Guidebook on Equipment and Training Aids to help clarify for you. 

Mis Tremeraire

It is written down somewhere.  Pg16 of the Handbook under Euqipment and Training Aids There are different categories some optional at the discretion of the examiner but namely:

1.  Training  aids/collar/leads acceptable as standard for both training and test sessions- flat buckle (any type) collars, half checks that a lead clips to.

2.  Training aids allowed not in test - Citronella and Anti bark collars etc

3. Training aids allowed in training but not test - slip leads, all-in-one leads (Gencon, figures of 8)  and body hrnesses (except when required for dogs genuine medical condition).

3. Training aids not allowed in either training or test sessions - Electric shock, Spike, Pinch/prong collars and muzzles although in old notes from seminars noted that  muzzles could be used if the dog had been ordered to wear one under the DDA so this has changed more recently

4.  Training aids allowed in training but not automatically allowed under test but at the discretion of the examiner - Headcollars and Haltis if it is shown that the dog is still under control once the halti is removed.  The examiner can request that the test is done without the aid and this request must be adhered to

> 4 Training aids allowed in training but not automatically allowed under test but at the discretion of the examiner - Headcollars and Haltis if it is shown that the dog is still under control once the halti is removed The examiner can request that the test is done without the aid and this request must be adhered to.

Thank you - I can now see why I was permitted in my test just for the road walk.

In your case though I can't see why your dog can't be permitted to wear its usual alert collar as well. Unless there has been a misunderstanding and they think it is a vibrating collar, as she is deaf?

And then, if you do have a deaf dog, well, why shouldn't a deaf dog be allowed to wear a vibrating collar if it has been trained that way? I know the preference is for hand signals, though.... but... How would you test a blind or partially sighted deaf dog, which would possibly need a vibrating collar? or if you were dedicated enough and able to get such a disabled dog to KC level, would that mean you wouldn't be able to do a test?

No, it was made absolutely clear that this was just a collar with a written 'alert' on it. 

I really don't understand what the examiner was thinking because there actually is no rule that can be found so far that states a dog can't wear more than one collar anyway and the person I spoke to at the KC told me it isn't about the number of collars - the rules concern the type and as my collar is not one of the training no nos eg ecollars, prong, citronella etc etc it is irrelevant anyway!

But, even if it was a pager collar I can't see why it wouldn't be allowed.  Everyone else uses their voice during test which is a training aid to an extent and they can use that training aid to calm, motivate, re-command, enthuse, forbid, steady, etc etc their dog so if you can 'talk' to your dog I can't see why you couldn't 'page' your dog!  But I don't use a pager.  I stuggled to find a supplier and when I finally did they had discontinued the pager from their range.  When they had it, it retailed at £140, a bit beyond my reach!

And then, if you do have a deaf dog, well, why shouldn't a deaf dog be allowed to wear a vibrating collar if it has been trained that way? I know the preference is for hand signals, though.... but... How would you test a blind or partially sighted deaf dog, which would possibly need a vibrating collar? or if you were dedicated enough and able to get such a disabled dog to KC level, would that mean you wouldn't be able to do a test?

You would certainly hope that wouldn't be the case.  It is extremely hard to train a dog with disabilities of its major senses.  All of his training has been done on hand signals and if you knew how much patience was needed when working with distractions you would know what I mean!  So it was even more shattering to have this person do what she did.  I know I'll get over it but I won't ever forget.

I know I'll get over it but I won't ever forget.

No, nor would I, would be chuntering on for ever if it were me. This person has done you, your dog and the whole idea of the Good Citizen training and testing a huge dis-service and I for one would very much like her to know this - striped of her status at least.

You're not the first person this has happened to.  I was told last year that my girl could not wear two collars.  We have a flat collar with tags that they wear 24/7, but being whippets, they need a collar like a half-check/martingale for walking.  A regular flat collar fitted comfortably on a whippet flies off their head.  Hmm - dog not under control...  It also bothers me that I can't use an all in one collar/lead as again, my dog is kept under control, but I can live with that for the test.  I just think the no two collar rule is stupid.  (and apparently not a rule at all)

I wonder if it's the same examiners.  They SWORE it was new KC rules, and they were trying to make things exactly the same across the board.  The same examiners told me I could not reinforce my 'stay' command after they started timing (not verbally or with signals - I just had to stand and stare at her).  Another examiner (under which my girl passed) didn't have a problem with the stay command being reinforced as long as she didn't move.  I understand for silver and gold not being able to reinforce for longer or out of sight stays (if that's part of the programme), but for Bronze?  I'm not sure which is right, but I'm glad we were allowed to reinforce as she stayed under control with the reinforcement, but without her attention wandered.

As a judge of KCGC tests and the co-ordinator for our club, I can categorically state that I have never been notified that only one collar is allowed. The Halti-type head collar can be allowed at the judge's discretion: I personally would not allow it for gold or silver but would for bronze. The other point is that a dog can take bronze & silver on the same day but not silver & gold. The KC really needs to tighten up on this so that we all know the "rules" and are all singing from the same song-sheet. Another point of controversy is the requirements on the dog disc. That's a mine-field of interpretation! The KCGC test does not even require the telephone number & yet I think that is the most vital bit of information for anyone who finds a dog.

I have seen the test judged so APPALLINGLY BADLY that I sent a detailed complaint to the K.C. They ignored it!

I thought I was getting over it yesterday but went to bed last night and cried 'cos I knew that all my class mates will hopefully be getting their Rosettes and Certificates this morning but me and my dog won't even have the chance.

I am now minded to make a formal complaint to the KC about this because if it prevents just one more person being put in this untenable position then it will be worth it.  It seems that I am not the only one to have been faced with it when you see Wendy's post and it's being done without a genuine 'rule' in place.

I have seen the test judged so APPALLINGLY BADLY that I sent a detailed complaint to the K.C. They ignored it!

Could you let me know by PM who is the correct person to send a written, formal complaint to please?   Thankx.

I took all three tests with two collars on my dog, a broad flat collar with his ID tag on, and a halfcheck with lead attached. I used a half-check because he could back out of a flat collar.
If the one collar rule (if there is a one collar rule) was applied then I would have to take off the flat collar and attach the ID disc to the half-check. OK fine, but what about the recall? you can't let a dog loose wareing a half-check it's not safe. the chain can catch on things and injure the dog. I know the dog is suppose to come straight to you or he's not ready for the test, but these are usely young dogs and dogs are not robots.
If I took the half-check off for the recall I then have a dog in a public place (which a village hall is) without an ID tag on, so I am breaking the law.
I would never ever do that with a hearing dog, its out of the question with a deaf one.
The welfare and safety of the dog must come before any certificate, well done for making a stand.

I don't know if you were tested by examiners from the same club or not but just to reassure you of recommanding the 'Stay'.

In my copy of the Guidelines, and I haven't been made aware it's been updated, it states:

Pg 33 Bronze level - Extra commands are permitted during this exercise but should not be excessive.

Pg 38 Silver - Extra commands are permitted during this exercise but should not be excesive

Pg 45 Gold level - Extra commands are permitted during this exercise but should not be excessive. 

So, if any examiner tries to tell you differently, refer them to the Guidebook.

By the ways, these books can be purchased from the KC £3 each - every instructor/club training this scheme should have one really.

Thank you very much for that info.  The same instructors that told me the dog couldn't have a 2nd collar were the ones who told me I couldn't re-command a stay (I couldn't even just keep my hand in a 'stay' command).

At least I'll be armed with better knowledge next time.  I did eventually qualify that girl for Bronze, so I've got one more to do for all of them to be bronze certified.  It's the stay we have a hard time with in an artificial situation.

Hi Nova

This person has done you, your dog and the whole idea of the Good Citizen training and testing a huge dis-service

I agree.  I have been an assessor for years but would never have dealt with a similar situation in this way.

I've asked the examiner and members of the KC where this 'rule' has come from.  It's been two weeks now since it all went belly up and no-one has answered me (or my instructor either).

I've not had one person come forward and say they know where this rule is, which seems quite telling!

The examiner has told my instructor that if it isn't a rule now they will make sure it becomes one!  I always thought the KC ran the GCDS, silly me, now it seems it's  some jumped up tw**p from a training club.

I have written in making a formal complaint and will now let my Listed Status lapse and withdraw my Assessor status.  I don't think I want to be associated with an organisation who operate under these terms.  It is not what I always believed the GCDS was about and it's a great pity that the original philosophy is being sacrificed for some examiner's ego if it continues unchecked like this example.

I don't think I will ever do my KCGCDS now, ever.  But I look at my boy each morning and love him all the more because I know how hard he worked with me to achieve this level of training and now will never have his achievement recognised.

Thanx all for your support.

Personally I can't see what having twenty collars (as long as they don't impede his comfort) have to do with his Obedience.

If contact with the KC has been by letter or email it may take a while for them to answer, phone calls are usually quicker, and insist on speaking to someone higher up if you can't gt an answer.

Remember these are staff employed by the KC not necessarily people into dogs even.

Personally I can't see what having twenty collars (as long as they don't impede his comfort) have to do with his Obedience.

Quite right.  The KCGCDS is not about Competitive Obedience and the stricter rules and standards that apply in that discipline.

It is about attaining a standard of training that makes a dog a pleasure to live with in their every day interactions and to be socially accepetable in general.

This examiner said she wants to make the wearing of half checks unacceptable too but I can think of several breeds for whom this would cause huge problems.  Those whose necks are as wide as their heads so ordinary flat collars fitted to their neck size would slip over their ears and all the long haired breeds who would have matted and knotted hair from flat collar use.

So, they would be excluding loads of dogs from taking part in the scheme if this rule is introduced.

Already it would seem that they are excluding dogs with any sort of disability or medical condition because of the 2 collar rule.  Although to be fair, the rep of the KC I spoke to says the number of collars is irrelevant.  Maybe this message just needs to be got out in the field to ALL assessors and make them toe the KC line.

.

Those whose necks are as wide as their heads so ordinary flat collars fitted to their neck size would slip over their ears and all the long haired breeds who would have matted and knotted hair from flat collar use.


You are right, my own breed are able to back out of the standard flat collar, how can insisting on a dog wearing a collar they can slip be promoting responsible owners ship or have I missed the point of the awards.

Quite  mine wear half slip collars from the time they are about 7 weeks old,and all puppies go to their new homes with one.  Don't like flat collars at all as they are often done up way too loose to be effective, or if done up correctly fit far to high up a dogs neck for optimum comfort.

With half checks the dog can have a comfortably loose collar when not attached to the lead, with it only tightening if they pull.  This is important to em as I liek my dogs to wer collars 24/7.  The only time mine are without a collar is in the bath.

how can insisting on a dog wearing a collar they can slip be promoting responsible owners ship

Exactly.  But this examiner stated (in writing) that in her mind a half choke is a training aid and questioned if we were ready to take our test if we had to use one at all!!!

So, two points arise.

1.  Items classed as Training Aids and deemed unacceptable as per Pg 16 of Guidebook and by the member of KC I spoke to are ecollars, prong collars, citronella and anti bark collars.   (I would agree with this)   So if this examiner classes half checks (she kept referring to them as 'chokes') as training aids they would not be acceptable under the scheme if she has her way.

2.  How can anyone be so naive as to think the wearing of a half check = not ready for test!  There are numerous reasons why these are used and not for 'snach and jerk'. 

If my dog is standing at the end of the lead, out of touch reach and not looking at me, I send a 'wave' down the lead which makes the chain between the dead rings flop on his shoulder.  He has been taught that this means he has to turn and look at me for his next signal/command.

Really, really nasty corrective things these half checks! Ha!  Maybe she has just very, very limited understanding of all things canine.

1.  Items classed as Training Aids and deemed unacceptable as per Pg 16 of Guidebook

Hm! Yes, training aids like the voice, hands, leads, treats - so you are not allowed to speak to your dog and praise it, or stroke it, hold it on a lead or when the exercise is finished give it a treat. If this is the case I will stop suggesting to people doing the GC is a good idea as they would better off doing competitive obedience.

And in case there is any confusion holding a dog on a half check is no different to holding it on a flat collar from the point of view of control, just safer and kinder.

both my boys passed there bronzes on a show lead and my older dog passed both his bronze and sliver on a half check.
last one was taken at the birmingham champ show in sept this year the only thing they said was that the owner's name as well as the address and number now has to be on the dog tag so i brought a cheap plastic one and wrote my name on it and he passes, bless him.

both my boys passed there bronzes on a show lead

Would that have been a fabric or rope full slip? If so it would seem that rules depend on the sense or otherwise of the examiner and their steward.

These tests are suppose to promote responsible dog ownership, surely putting an alert collar on a deaf dog is reponsible. useing a half- check for the reason's some people have given is responsible.

rules depend on the sence or otherwiseI think common sence is'nt so common these days!

If an intructor feels someone is ready for a test and puts them in for it, it is very bad maners for an accessor to suggest they might not be ready, when the accessor has not even seen them.

If an intructor feels someone is ready for a test and puts them in for it, it is very bad maners for an accessor to suggest they might not be ready, when the accessor has not even seen them.

Well said, it sure as heck added insult to injury both to me and my instructor in my case!!

But to go back to the original query - does anyone out there know where this 'you can only wear 1 collar' or 'can't wear 2 collars' rule actually is?

So far, it seems to be very elusive.

When I did the Gold GC award a few years ago I was allowed to have a canni collar on my dog. Our original test was due to be taken in the day time but the assessor was unable to make the test time and it was rescheduled for an evening. It was November at the time of the test and my dog is terrified of fireworks (lost him overnight due to a firework going off and him bolting) and I try to avoid going out after dark with him during the firework season but if I have no choice I always use a headcollar on him so I can keep hold of him if he panics and tries to run.

I told the assessor that I would take the test at another date as I was not willing to run the risk of losing him by going out after dark. He suggested that I use two leads for my dog - using his normal flat collar with lead attached for walking him  but having the second lead attached to the headcollar as a backup in case of fireworks. It would be very obvious to him which lead I was using and he could see no reason why I shouldn't put my dog's safety as a priority.

Quite right, no matter how well trained out dogs are we still have them on a lead, and use any other equipment that makes it easier and safer .

What are they thinking of taking dogs out with the risk of fireworks going off, why cause the dogs stress.Doing this can make a dog fearful of going out in the dark ever again. The test is just not worth it. The accessor and the Instuctor such know better.
As I said before common sence is not so common.

Lets get back to the point- where is the one collar rule written? (if there is a one collar rule!)

So far, it seems to be very elusive

Think this may well be because it does not exist

matingale full chain type of coller and a short black leather lead, cant show my boys on a slip lead they are too stong.