If a Pointer has rear dew claws, would it be penalised in the show ring or is this normal?  Just being inquisitive....

None of the pointer standards mention dew claws so one would assume that it would not matter if the dogs had them or if they have been removed. Only thing is if they have them they should be neat and not cause a problem if the dogs were working.

Its probably not something that judges would wish to see on a pointer. If push came to shove and you had two excellent dogs in a class it might be a small point which could see a dog being penalised.
I would not want them on my dog for fear of them being ripped off, but other than that its probably fine...

Personally I hate to see any dew claws on dogs, and on smooth coated breeds I think they ruin the clean lines of the leg. That said it is a very minor annoyance and would fall way behind construction, movement, breed type etc in decision making :-)

> Personally I hate to see any dew claws on dogs,

Do you mean on the front legs too. 

>Do you mean on the front legs too.

I can't speak for tigger2 but yes, I include front ones as well.

Mind you, dealing with damaged front ones (many different breeds) is quite a nice little earner for the vet!

When the KC had the breed standard shake up, the standards that did include wording to the effect that rear dewclaws should be removed were changed so that they no longer have to be -that included my breed. I'd always remove rear ones though, no matter what, as they can cause problems in a breed not meant to have them. A friend left them on a dog of hers and he got his claws stuck in each other when adult so could never stand normally. I would also always LEAVE front ones as all my dogs use them.

Now I would never dream of removing front dews on my breed (never had rear ones ever).  Have had a bitch pup born without the front ones though, very strange, didn't worry the vet and never bothered her, but never heard of it before, or since, and I have bred from her litter sister who has hers.

I posted because I saw a Pointer at Ringcraft on Tues (I am very new to the show world).   It didn't look pretty at all - my friend knew of the lady whose mother is well known in the show scene but with different breed, so thought she would have had only bought a puppy for showing with them removed....

She probably went for the best constructed puppy if she was wishing to show and may be considers the removal of dew claws unethical.

> Do you mean on the front legs too.

Yes, I love long clean straight legs with no dangly bits :-)  My silken has front dew claws and I hate them, they draw my eye to them and although they are quite close to the leg they still annoy me.

> I would also always LEAVE front ones as all my dogs use them. <IMG class=qButton title="Quote selected text" alt="Quote selected text" src="/images/mi_quote.gif" width=20 height=10>

That's interesting Marianne.  I have a Bearded Collie who has ripped hers so many times that I wish her breeder had got rid.  But my Border Collie boy uses his so well, that I often mistakenly say his "hands" instead of paws!  It is amazing to watch him use them like thumbs, and pick things up in his "hands"  :-)

Mine are the same the breed has very neat front thumbs that sit close to the leg, but are used all the time to hold chews, bones etc.

So do mine, have only ever had one who's front dew claws stuck out and were a bit of a problem but all the others are need and tight to the leg unless they are in use. Never had, or TBH ever seen dew claws on the hind legs of our breed.

Wonder how the Lundehund copes.

Considering how closely the Buhunds live with the Elkhounds it is strange that they are born with great bunches of them on the hindlegs and are removed at birth.

Did not know that Barbara - it always puzzles me that it seems not to upset people that dew claws are removed but people become iridescent if docking is mentioned, but that's another topic.

Also dew claws can quite legally be removed by a lay person, as they didn't include that in the vets only rule when they made it illegal for lay persons to dock.

So there is nothing to stop you or I from removing digits from a dog.

That is alarming when you consider how much more intrusive it is to remove the claws compared to a dock. Never been present when dew claws are removed do the pups notice it or is it the same as with tails they just go on suckling.

Definitely more painful than docking from what I have been told by my friends in dobermans, but they always used to band (ligature) the tails, and that went without a squeak.

Have seen docking done in the nest (by a vet) pups did not notice at all but I know that to remove a dewclaw you have to separate a joint and that the nervous system to the feet is active at birth so I suspect they must use some sort of painkiller in order to do it.

Nope no pain killer, though maybe at vets they might.

May be the age they are done at, may be if within hours of birth it is ok - really don't know never been involved with dewclaws at all.

Never done dewclaws myself always done by the vet, done with in same time frame as tails (up to 5days) no local used. Pups react to dewclaw removel more then tails IME.
K

> May be the age they are done at, may be if within hours of birth it is ok

I have had them removed at 2 days without a squeak.  I always insist on holding pups myself for the vet, and the last time I had it done (at 3 days) both pups cried out.  Have never had it done since.

Yet I bred cavies for over 25 years, and always removed the odd extra toe at birth, with no problems whatsoever.

Dew claws should be taken off before the pups are 48 hours old, apparently their nervous systems are not fully connected at that age. No pain killer is used or needed, just a dab of potassium permanganate to stop bleeding and the pups are straight back to mum.

I only ever had dewclaws removed (front ones) and  they were done at the same time as the tails were docked. Never again. All the pups squealed, one wouldn't stop bleeding, and the vet couldn't care less. :-( I have also only had to have one dog have a dew claw removed due to an accident when it was 6 months old (stood on a bit of lego of all things ;-) )