We have locally a dwarf gsd who is now 6 years old . Oh has been chattting to the owner and has been told that there are more than strong rumours that people are trying to breeding a dwarf form of gsd presumable from these dogs I am absoloutly horrified, the health implications and suffering must be enormous.
What do others think ?

All things being equal IMO 6 years is too late to have the first litter.

Whether a mating between two dwarf dogs would be satisfactory or ethical would depend on the type of dwarfism.

Absolutely horrified.Would think that there are plenty of normal GSD about without having to breed from an animal with a serious abnormality.
Anyone can get a unexpected problem in a litter but to purporsely breed for it is a disgrace.

This man has no intention of breeding from his dog he is more than aware of the problems with a dwarf it was just what he had been told others were doing to make money out of a "new breed".
Sorry maybe I didnt make myself clear ,

Sure I will get yelled at but no one turns a hair if people breed natural bob tails in an ethical manner so what would be so different in breeding dogs with short legs providing it is not pituitary dwarfism - perhaps not ethical but is it such a huge sin it is after all how some of our short legged dogs were achieved.

This is absolutely horrifying.  If there ever was a breed that has been, and is being exploited, the GSD is one.   If it's not strange rare colours, it's conformation issues, and now dwarfs.  And look at how many normal size GSD there are for sale on sites such as Epupz etc. 

There is usually two types of dwarfism in GSD, Achondroplastic and Pituitary.   Achondroplastic's tend to be very short in all 4 limbs with varying lengths of foreleg but it's believed to be quite rare in the GSD, which is not the case for Pituitary.  The cause of dwarfism in GSD is usually typically pituitary dwarfism.  No GSD breeder in their right mind would be breeding for Pituitary/Achondroplasia dwarfism in GSD. 

As if the breed didn't have enough problems. :-(

Forgot to add, Pituitary dwarfs are sterile anyway......thankfully. 

> but is it such a huge sin it is after all how some of our short legged dogs were achieved.

Nova I saw this mentioned in another post some weeks ago. As an owner of one of the larger breeds with the shortest of legs I took an interest as it was not something I had heard before, is it how breeds such as ours came about? Just interested.

I have no scientific information but am led to believe that some breed like corgi, Shelti etc were bred this way - it could be total nonsense but I do believe in some breeds this is true although it could be achieved by continually breeding the smallest individuals. The point I was making was that some abnormalities are used to advantage and accepted as a good thing as the bob tail so why is it so wrong to consider using the naturally short legged to produce a miniature version of a breed. Not encouraging it but I have seen a lot worse done in the name of developing a new breed at least this way is the natural way.

> The point I was making

Nova thank you for responding and yes I did understand the point you were making. It was just the suggestion that short legged dogs had come about through dwarfism. BH's I thought came about in this country through Bloodhounds/Beagles, don't know about Corgis,  thank goodness I haven't yet heard of a miniature BH.

> is it how breeds such as ours came about? Just interested.

Yes.

It happens every now and then as a mutation in many breeds/non breeds.

Short leggedness is a form of dwarfism, so all short legged breeds are achondroplastic dwarfs.

Miniaturisation and true dwarfism are not necessarily the the same.

There is a big difference between dwarfism and smaller varieties of the same breed. Dwarfism is a genetic mutation whereas being small is not. If you bred dwarf to dwarf you would be producing a line of genetic freaks, however breed small to small and you would just reduce the size with no illl health, dwarfs have many other problems and it is moraly wrong to perpetuate them so to set out to breed two to produce more is like suffering from (For instance) MS and going out of your way to find a partner who also had MS then intentionally producing babies who had it. That in my mind is grotesque. Unfortunatly people have always wanted to be different and think it fine to produce freaks of nature this way.
Aileen