I am asking this on behalf of my in-laws who are thinking of getting a second dog - their requirements are as follows:

- Small/Medium - smaller and lighter than a lab
- Must be able to keep up on long walks - father in law currently owns a labrador and likes to go for long walks across fields etc so the new dogs need to be able keep up once its an adult.
- A bidable and friendly dog.  Mother in law has experience of everything from chihuahuas to german shepherds but father in law is used to labs and to be honest prefers to walk his dogs without a lead (I know! but what can you do?)
- Must be good with young children (my children) who visit regularly and are used to dogs but only aged 4 at the moment.
- low to no shedding prefered.

Breeds they are considering:
- Border terrier - what are they like with strange dogs?
- Doodle of some kind (lab, golden, mini variety) Please not complaints about cross breeds, I'm well aware of the need for health checks and the uncertainty of coat etc. only opinions based on experience please!
- Staffies (energetic but could their short legs keep up with a lab for 4-5 miles?)

They have thought about cocker spaniels but were concerned about potential sharpness of temperment?  Also they don't really want something as intense as a collie.

Other breeds I was thinking of:

- Portugese water dog - possibly a bit hyper though?
- Welsh or English springer - again maybe a bit high energy/intense?

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

A lot of your Labradoodles are quite hyper so as you've put that as a qyery regarding the Portugese maybe wouldn't go with them.  THere are  anumber of breeds with this look where breeders health test etc.

I love Border Terriers, definitely can keep up, are friendly etc with people.  Like everything in life you get back what you put into the dogs.

I was going to say cocker spaniel, all of the ones I've come across (working variety, haven't met any show ones so can't comment) are brilliant, with other dogs and people as well.  And no problem keeping up, they go at a million miles compared to Labs, and yet the ones I've seen, are absolutely on the ball when it comes to training, they seem very biddable little dogs.  I don't think you're going to get a guarantee'd non-shedder from a cross like a cockapoo, so I'd say the cocker itself is a better choice, again, based on what I've seen of the cross, I just didn't like the 'movement', wasn't quite right somehow compared to the cocker, although I'm no expert.

What about a bedlington terrier?  I've seen a few of the working lines ones recently, lovely little dogs. 

A small GSP :p

Sorry I had to be said, hehehe

what about a Schauzer, i have a miniture but you could get standard which is a nice size.
my girl will be happy to take it easy or go for endless walks and never runs out of energy. also they don't loose hair but you will need to clip or have it clipped every so often. easy to do once you've done it a few times and in the winter i just let the hair grow longer.
i don't show so it doesn't matter to me if my girl looks a little rough round the edges. 

I would have suggested a working cocker spaniel too.  They are high energy, love training, walks etc & their coats don't shed as much as the show type. They are quieter than the show type & the one's i've met have been absolutely lovely with fab temperaments.
Also, would they consider taking in a rescue dog?  I have seen a couple recently in rescue.

whippet?

> but you will need to clip or have it clipped every so often

You should not really clip the coat, a proper coat will be harsh and needs hand striping. 

Clipping will stop the coat being weatherproof and harsh.

I totally recommend a springer spaniel.  We have one, a smaller working line bitch.  She is fab.  When outside, she is on the go constantly but when home(as long as she's exercised) she potters around.  She is also great with my kids (and all their friends)!  I have cockers (show type) which I also think are great but the working type have a much lighter coat which doesn't require as much grooming.  I have never clipped or stripped our springer either as she has a very thin coat.  Suits our busy, active lifestyle to the ground!

Id suggest a springer, fabulous dogs as long as they get plenty of stimulation which your in-laws seem to be prepared to give.
With regards coat, since being neutered my boys coat developed a life of its own so i have him clipped twice a year and hand stipped in between it seems to work and at the moment his coat is looking lovely.

A wild card, but a breed i adore would be a Clumber spaniel. From the few i have met they seem to have the ability to go all day but without the manic personalities of springers or cockers. Being a numerically small breed however it may take some time for the right dog to come along from the right breeder.

Good luck,

Thanks for all your suggestions.  I will suggest the cocker and springer spaniels to them. 

What about Cavaliers?  Could they keep up with a lab for miles or would that be too much for them?  My mother-in-law would probably like a nice cuddley dog and so would my kids and I've met a few Cav's out on walks and they seem adorable but just not sure if they'd like the long, long walks? 

Also does anybody know if a staffy would keep up on long walks?

Thanks

Flatti ?

> Flatti ?

The op wanted something smaller than a lab :-)

Would they consider a rescue? Rescue centres are full of staffie crosses or lurchers, adult dogs that would be better able to keep up on a walk than a pup? If they go to a rescue that fosters it's 'inmates' out then they'll get a better idea of temperament, suitability with kids and other dogs etc.

Failing that I agree with Sam, a whippet - small, smooth coated, good with kids and other dogs, easily trained, don't eat much and will walk as long as you like - or not at all if it's raining :-D

All the staffies I have known can walk for as long or as little as their owners want, although their fur does seem to get everywhere (still finding bits woven into my car)

I have Cavaliers and they again are happy to do a trek or a small walk, they are friendly, excellent with children and don't tend to shed lots of fur although the grooming can be time consuming. I would say that they can suffer from lots of health problems if not bought from a reputable breeder though. They are gorgeous doggies though :-)

What are whippets like off lead?  I sort of assumed they were like greyhounds and other sight hounds in that they were likely to give chase for small furries?  Father in law is not very good with leads, even in the town!

My Cavaliers have walked between 5 and 8 miles with hubby when he does his long walks at the weekend with no trouble. But if it's raining they are happy to curl up on the sofa too! As someone else said you do need to buy from a reputable breeder and keep up with the grooming, but for me they are the perfect dog. :-)

> What are whippets like off lead? 

Whippets are very trainable, I meet lots of them off lead in local parks. Any dog is likely to chase small furries if not trained otherwise :-)

My cocker does a 3 mile walk to work and back every day and a 6 mile on Sundays, he has been known to don his necker and do a 12 mile scout hike.

He can easily keep up with our Border Collie, you might notice they are continually being wound up by their wagging tails!! Cant speak to highly about a cocker - plus they are swimmers as well!!.

Missed the bit about smaller than a lab I forget how big Whisper is and everything seems smaller lol

> Flatti ?

A lot of folk don't like the the busy attention seeking nature of a flatcoat nor their energy levels so if they thought it would be the choice for them I would suggest they contact the FCR Society and through them find a breeder near them where they can go and see flatcoats before getting one.

A friend has a labrador and enjoys long walks across the fields she has a border terrier who certainly keeps up with the lab and her. Before that she had two lurchers both of which were calm easy going characters, although I do know some lurchers who will take off hunting given half a chance.

I think I would choose a border terrier or a working bred spaniel, I have met quite a few springer/cocker spaniel crosses which some people refer to as 'sprockers' and they have been nice dogs but vary in size from the working cockers to the springers.

>- Small/Medium - smaller and lighter than a lab

My mother in law sometimes looks after my terrier type mongrel and my Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla.  She's 75ish, fitter than me, and walks them miles BUT she has commented recently upon the height difference and says how nice it is not to have bend down so far with my HWV!!  She says the raised feeder is great too as she can clean under it more easily and is less likely to slop the water on the way down :)

The height element may be worth considering and perhaps not going too small if they are an older couple.  My HWV is considerably finer than a lab and feels smaller simply by virtue of his width, he also takes up less floor space when you need to step over him.  Bigger dogs can sometimes be less difficult to housetrain too, according to many contributors on here.

Just another perspective...