My daughter who is disabled saved up and brought a bitch puppy - she was 10 weeks old when she brought her and was suppose to have her first innoculation and vet checked - which she wasnt. My daughter however fell in love with the puppy and took her home. She took her to the vet and found out she had problem with her knee joints on hind legs, which she informed the breeder so she would know that there were problems. Then two weeks ago the dog started having fits which happened every night, vet didnt want to put her on medication due to the fact she is only 7 months old, also her jaw is going wry and tongue is sticking out slightly to the side.
she took the dog to vet after first fit but because it was every night there was little option and dog is now on medication twice a day. Tried contacting breeder and although she has responded to me and said she would ring my daughter, she has failed to do so and I am getting fed up at leaving message after message. I do not know what to do next as thought the breeder would offer some support in this difficult time. The dog is totally spoilt and has never had a fall or injury of any kind. Any ideas please

If the breeder is a member of a Breed Club you could try and contact them for advice, and all Breed Clubs should have a health monitor and they may well be able to give you advice regarding the various problems that your daughter's puppy has.

If the breeder is a member of the KCAB (Kennel Club Accredited Breeder) sc heme, one of the criteria of being a member is to offer a good back-up service, if this is not being done then you need to report the matter to the KC.

Hope this helps.

I am waiting for a reply from breed club of which they are a member and the breeder is not an accredited breeder. Will wait to see what breed club says then will take it to KC and see what they advise. But thanks for your advise

citizans advise office may be able to give you more info on where your daughter stands legally.
my own suspisian is that this situation falls under trading standards where the pup purchased is 'not fit for purpose' (yes i know that sounds terrible) and she would be entitled to a refund however the crunch is refund is generally when the 'goods' (puppy) is returned which of course no one would want to do :(

have left another message with breeder to contact my daughter but dont hold out much hope, have also sent an e mail to breed club for advice. All this is really upsetting for my daughter. Have discussed situation with daughter and either way it needs sorting.

If the breeder offers a refund, would you want to give up this puppy?

You could always go back to them, knock on their door, and say that you are returning the pup.

this is what we have be pondering. At this moment in time my daughter is in tumoil as to what to do. She loves this puppy but the fits are not nice to watch. Has a few days with no fits so maybe  the medication is working. As for knocking on the breeders door - dont think so as I would probably cause such a scene I would be arrested - not because the puppy is sick but because they have choosen to ignore the problem. Refund from this breeder - dont think so. Waiting to hear back from breed club.

still no reply from breed club - I wish I could name and shame but I cant

Trading standards?  Though if she was healthy at time of sale, and she accepted the knee problem at the time???  Certainly morally a partial refund if your daughter wants to keep the pup. 

she accepted knee problem at time, although let the breeder know there was problem that the vet had picked up on. - my argument is that the breeder has not offered any support at this time. The dog went 7 days no fits and now back to fitting. You go to buy a puppy and you travel lots of miles (not a problem) and you are told that the pup will be vet checked and have first innoculation - only to find they have not been vet checked and no innoculation. Daughter falls in love with puppy and hands over money and becomes attached to her - then start of problems and no help.

I would contact the breeder and inform them that if they are not in contact within the next week you shall report the matter to the kennel club, the breed club and the dog papers.

Oh I quite understand, but in law it is a contract and trading standards issue.

Was anything in writing re vet checked etc?  If the puppy was not fit for sale then it should have been returned or a partial refund sought for goods not being of merchantable quality at time of sale.  Re the fits, of course if these were not apparent at time of sale, and it cannot be proved that it was apparent at the time of sale.

Unfortunately to receive a refund the goods would need to be returned, and of course less than good breeders count on the attachment.  Trading standards could perhaps help with the issue of her not being entirely healthy at time of sale, reducing her value, to help with a partial refund.

Naming and shaming will not help your daughter, but will undermine the breeders reputation if they have one..

have an e mail saying puppy would be vet checked and also first innoculation. breeder has bad name from what I have now been told via other people . Also have been told that the breed club dont think they can do anything to help, even though they have a code of ethics. Does this mean that anyone can breed and sell unhealthy puppies and not take any responsibility and  keep getting away with it??

Does this mean that anyone can breed and sell unhealthy puppies and not take any responsibility and  keep getting away with it??

Unfortunatly it does and it happens all the time...this is why we on this forum try so very hard to but people off breeding and to try to encourage people looking for a pup to do lots of homework first. I am so sorry you find yourself in this possition, I would have thought at the very least a partial refund would be the order of the day but have to say it is not looking good. The breed club will probably act on a formal letter to the committee (They have to) though what the outcome will be who knows. I do know the breed club I am a member of would look to see if the breeder had broken the code of ethics and then if found to have would certainly do something about it, but what is a matter for disscussion by the committee.
Aileen

Under the sale of goods act anything including a dog should be of merchantable value ie: fit for the purpose it was bought.
You do have a claim against the  breeder  put it in writing by recorded delivery get a vet report  and  was there any insurance given? if you wish to email me I can try and help you as others have said would you want to return the pup? if not call the breeders bluff as he certainly doenst want the puppy back sorry forgot  what breed is the puppy.

Puppy was sold without insurance because she said she left kc registration at home and would send it on (we met her at her friends house about 100 miles from where we live) as the lady in question lives other end of england to me. It tooks weeks of badgering to get kc registration sent through. As for puppy - after hearing a lot about this breeder - there is no way she is have this sick youngster back. All my daughter wanted was help and support from breeder. Trouble is when you speak to people you dont always get the truth about someone until after the problem has arisen. I must say there are some very good people who are reputable breeders and showers and owners within the breed. I hold little hope of any help from breed club even though they have a code of ethics for their members.

is she actually a member of the breed club though?
and realistically all the breed club can do is boot her out of club if broken club rules.

Is she an accredited breeder if so get in touch with the KC?  The Breed Club can't stop her breeding etc.  all that they can do at first is a warning letter.

oh yes she is definetly member of breed club. I did check first before I contacted them but do not hold out any hope of them doing anything.

Accredited breeder scheme - no

If the pup was KC registered then the free insurance starts when you buy the pup - there doesn't have to have been anything done, although it would have been a good idea when you got the papers and realised there was a problem with her legs to have taken up the insurance (it's done on line when you transfer the pup into your name) then you could have kept up the insurance and had the epilepsy covered.  If the pup wasn't KC registered then there's no insurance cover.

This type of epilepsy is likely to be genetic and not sure why vet didn't want to medicate as very sadly lots of youngsters have epilepsy and medication is crucial. 

It sounds like a poor breeder to me, one not to buy from.  You should be able to get a refund and keep the puppy - most reputable (yes I know these aren't reputable) breeders would refund and let you keep the pup if it didn't turn out right.  I would approach trading standards and the council's animal welfare (licensing) side.  You should be able to take this person to the small claims court and at least get your money back - keeping the puppy if you wish.

It sounds like you travelled a long way for a poor breeder, so sorry you have been let down.

The breeder left the kc registration at her house and said she would post it and it tooks weeks of badgering to actually get hold of the documentation, and this was after the leg problem ( which as said wasnt an issue as pup was never to be shown and is a much loved pet) My argument has been and will always be the same that the breeder has chose to ignore the problem and hasnt even had the decency to ring up. Didnt ask for money back  - just wanted help, advice and support. She was medicated after she had 2 fits and that is every night - she went a week with no fits and is now back to fitting every night and fits are getting worse and that is on medication.
This person has had complaints from other club members and they have sent complaints into breed club. It has nothing to do with the money and cost of medication it has do to with a breeder who should have done the moral thing and got in contact. Although I have been told to take video of pup having fits and post it online as well as sending it to all committee members.
Although another breeder who is highly respected has said that if anything does happen to the dog (the worst scenario) they will replace the pup with one of their own and they are an accredited breeder. Have had great support and backup from other members of this lovely toy breed.

Hi All,

Have moved this back to open forum (thank you to those who sent me reports) but please note any further attempt to name and shame "breeders" will be removed. I do understand the frustration these people cause.
Thanks,

Jeff.

dog had really bad fit last night and took two hrs to come completed out of it. Daughter spent half the night sobbing her eyes out. Vets today yet again and increased dose by double

Maybe you need to consider whether its fair to keep the dog going.  Are the fits managable, will they get worse, what's causing them (if you know).  Is the dog in pain and/or distressed after.

I know it hard to think about and made me think when I have to face this for my old girl but is it fair to let them suffer for our sake of sparing heatache.

Big hugs to you all and will send healing thoughts.

Jeff, would you please say why you are unable to name disreputable breeders. Is this for legal reasons?

Hi,

I am not a legal expert but, yes it is for legal reasons and whether it would be defamation of character or libel or something else I could not say.
hth,
Jeff. 

Take this person to the small claims court for refund of your money. If she does not turn up on the date set to defend your claim, you will be awarded your money plus the cost of the court document which I think will be between £40-£50. If she does not pay,bailiffs wil be sent to recover goods to the value. You will not be the only person who has purchased dogs with serious health issues from this person and unless there is some retribution,there will be,even as iam writing this, some other purchaser suffering the same trauma that you,your daughter and the poor dog are suffering now..How long have you had this puppy and was she taken to the vet for check-up and vacs shortly after you brought her home? If no one has the courage to name her,spare a thought for the poorly stock from which she is breeding. Also, you could consider claiming for the vet fees and medication on which you must have spent a considerable amount. Once you have sorted this out, consider very carefully whether it would not be more kind to allow the vet to put this poor little dog out of her considerable discomfort. When we have an animal we just have to put aside our own emotions and do what is the best and kindest thing for the animal concerned. Learn a lesson from this and only buy from accredited breeders who will care so much for their stock that they would rather you returned an animal you feel you cannot keep and will refund your money. Too many people use animals as a money maker,and the person from whom you purchased this dog is one of them. 

Out of interest it can't be any of those legal things if you just say I bought my pup from !!!!!!!!!!!!!! it can only be a problem legally if the person named as the breeder is not surely. Or perhaps not, perhaps there is such a thing as being defamatory or libellous  by proxy. Anyone really know?

One of the  problems was that it wasn't the OP who named and shamed the breeder it was somebody else - internet forums are subject to the same libel laws as any other types of written media and the owner of the site can become embroiled in court proceedings as well as the person who wrote the details.

Yes, Harley I realise that but had it been the OP who had said who she bought her pup from surely that can't have any legal problems attached.

If for example you say that Mr X breeds unhealthy puppies, what proof do you have? The fact that the puppy YOU purchased is unhealthy is not proof that ALL the puppies he breeds are of poor quality and therefore he may think it appropriate to take legal action. We may all know that the majority of puppies bred by Mr X are unhealthy bit knowing is not proof.
Jeff.
eta In the context of a thread such as this I suggest it would be unwise.

Yes, sorry gone off subject a tad, I was thinking that if you say your pup is suffering from A, B & C and then in a later thread say you purchased it from Mrs ? Would that give Mrs? grounds in law to make a claim. It was me just wondering really not something I should do, wonder on someone else's thread that is.

I cant name and have no intentions of doing so but I have no intentions of letting this matter drop. I have not put breed down apart from toy breed which could be one of many. I will take this matter as far as I can and it has nothing to do with money - it is down to principles and having a moral conscience.

The pup was taken to the vet within a week of getting her. I have e mails that say she would be innoculated and would be registered with KC when we picked her up but would have endorsements on registration to do with breeding that would be lifted if we wanted. I have had to go back thru all my e mails (glad I dont delete) to find the e mails but found them. My daughter was in tears for hours last night because she had made the decision to have the dog put to sleep but spoke to the vet as soon as surgery opened and he said he would like to try increasing meds and to see if that may help before going down that route.

Good luck with it all and I can't imagine what you and your daughter must be feeling right now. All you can do is the best for the pup right now.

I wish you every success, you are absolutely right to pursue this matter.
For the record Jurojin did not name the breeder.

Jeff.

should point out that didnt not buy thru a certain puppy site, or any other internet site or thru newspaper actually was referred to this person by another person. Think in hindsight (yes I know hindsight is a good thing) that should have had some sort of contract drawn up ( could have done what the americans are known for - sue their sorry ***)- but when you buy a pup you dont think you are going to have all these problems and to be hit with a brick wall. But I have to say thanks to everyone for their helpful advice and all the support I have received both within the breed and also outside the breed.

Pity I missed who Mr X was.

Hope pup is feeling better.  Fingers crossed the new medication works.  Was the vet hopeful or just trying it?

has your vet taken blood in order to determine amount and type of medication required? If your daughter has decided to go down this route,as this dog is still growing,she will need to be monitored at intervals via blood samples. May also need brain scan. If this puppy was not insured before health problems manifested,you unfortunately,will not be covered for existing conditions. I am so sorry that the purchase of your puppy ,,has brought so much heartache in place of the joy your daughter anticipated. I am sad but also angry on your behalf.I shall be sending out some very strong thoughts directed towards this person and also, for help on your behalf. Tell your daughter to go with her instincts when she is calm and can think more clearly.