The story :-

Kas my adorable big 55 kg. GS died suddenly at 1.30 am on Saturday 22 August 2009. He was perfectly normal all day Friday, ate his evening meal OK and was just himself until about 9.30 pm. Then he started being sick - vomiting, which got very violent and he vomited many times, bringing up yellow matter in a jelly. It would not come away easily and I had to pull it out at times. Having settled down by 12.30 in the kitchen, I checked him 3 times and he seemed to be asleep for the night. I heard two coughs at 1.30 am, went to see him and he was dead. A large pool of dark blood had come out of his rear end. I assume he had ruptured something vital with all that heavy reaching.

The vet said it was most likely gas causing a twisted gut - a condition that comes on quickly without warning and is fatal within -3 hours.

He was in his prime at 6 years 4 months and formed a big part of our everyday life. He was our only family.

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab327/johnbull17/Kas5.jpg

We knew all about being careful after eating and what the experts say, but still the best friend I ever had died. We just do not understand why and still do not. The whole thing will be with me until death do us part. I have had some tough deals in life, but this is crippling.

The question :-

We fed him on large kibble, it was one of the best makes available and expensive.

Doing a water test, I found that this kibble which was about 15-20 cm. diameter absorbed water to swell it to about 50%+ it`s normal size. With a feed of 250 grms. that is a lot of volume increase.

Add to that the gaseous emission and it does not look good for the digestive system ; excessive gas + increase in volume = trouble.

I would gratefully appreciate your experiences with this fatal scourge as it is always best to know what the troopers think and not to take too much notice of the General`s.

Please reply if you have experienced this problem, I will find your comments very comforting, even if they are painful to read.

We still feed our new Rottie Kaiser on kibble, still expensive, much smaller in size and from a good supplier, but the water absorption is almost zero.

Many thanks
John Bull

The reason for why I personally would never consider feeding a complete food without soaking it for at least half an hour first in warm water is the worry of bloat.  Seeing every day just how much the food swells does make you think -and I don't think it matters how small the pieces are, because they still make the total volume bigger when swollen, and the large pieces would have been chewed first anyway. HOWEVER, first off you're not to blame as manufacturers do say it is fine to feed it dry, and secondly, I assume you do not know for sure if Kas did die of bloat or even a twisted gut? The reason for saying that is that we lost my mother in law's Labrador at the end of last year, she was roughly 6 (a rescue). She suddenly collapsed one day after having vomited, her stomach started swelling, her gums were pale, her temperature low and I was sure it was bloat. I called the vet and we got her straight there (within half an hour), the vet put her under straight away and opened her up -and found it wasn't bloat at all, but a tumour on her spleen that had burst. Yet the symptoms really had been the same as for bloat. The tumor and spleen was removed but she still died a fortnight later.

MarianneB,

It is very tragic to hear of your loss. I suppose the awful truth is that we are here today and gone tomorrow - that is life, nothing is indispensable.

I have had this with family and my first wife of 45 years married. Yes, it hurt bad, but with animals it always hurts more. I become irrational.
Presumably it is the total trust, innocence and blind loyalty they give us that gets to my heart, plus their total reliance on us for their very survival.

Not many weaknesses here MarianneB, I can take a lot of flack that creases most other people, but animals are my Achilles heel. Don`t tell anybody will you ?
John

Same here JB.

One bitch I owned was fed meat and biscuit at 8am and at 4pm had bloated. I am sure that it was her liking for eating frozen horse poo which then fermented in her stomach which caused it. Fortunately she survived the op (succumbed to a cancer 7 years later) but her appetite for all things revolting never diminished.

Despite all the research done over the years we still do not know all the causes of bloat so all we can do is take sensible precautions.

One Christmas Eve I got up to find one of my dogs dead (possible blood clot) so I know what a terrible shock it would be for you to find your dog had died but you shouldn't feel to blame. He was obviously much loved.

Hi John,

I am so sorry to hear about your loss. I lost my beautiful girl last year in August as well..Her symptoms were so quick, she just jumped off the chair she had been peacfully sleeping on, sicked up some white frothy liquid and within 5 seconds she bloated. I was in total shock, we rushed her to the vets, we got there within 10 minutes. The vet gave her fluids and took her into the operating theatre within the half an hour. I truely felt that I had got her there in time for her to be saved...I was inconsolable when the vet called to say that her stomach had twisted and too much damage had been done for him to save her and felt the kindest thing to do would be to put her to sleep. My world stopped spinning with those words. she was the love of my life, the bond I shared with her was like no other dog I have ever owned. Even now typing this I am in floods of tears, I am still greiving terribly for her and think about her all the time..you always blame yourself and think what could I have done to stop it, was it what they had eaten earlier etc..etc..? my vet said that we did everything right, owning a breed that suffers from this awful condition I know what to look for straight away.. but none the less there was nothing I could do to save her she was only 5 years old.

I personally think complete food is totally to blame for this condition. I personally will never feed a completely dry diet I always give a very small amount of biscuit with mainly meat such as tripe. I would never soak biscuit before hand having seen how much it swells up which concerns me greatly. I was told  complete foods that use citric acid as a preservative can make dogs gassy if this food is soaked it releases a chemical apparently? Orijen is the only food that doesnt swell up 'at all' when soaked, I have tested this myself and the claims are true. Although they do use citric acid in their meat range, the fish range is fine as they use rosemary oil instead.

I have spoken to people in my breed who bred in the 50's & 60's and bloat was unheard of in those days, so why is it so common now? I was told by our vet to always keep Buscopan in the cupboard as this helps if a dog should become a bit gulpy or gassy. I am never without these tablets. on a handful of occasions I have noticed that suddenly one of my hounds have started to look a little distressed, you can hear their tummies gurgling...they try to eat things off the floor or want to eat grass to make themselves sick, as soon as  I see this I give them a Buscopan and start to massage their tummies for about 5 or 10 minutes of this helps the gas build up to come out, they normally expel the gas from one end or the other..and immediatly it passes. I know for a fact that if I didnt do this it could possibly turn into bloat...I can honeslty say that I think Buscopan tablets are a life saver. Sadly I never even had the time with my baby girl to do anything, my heart goes out to you and I hope its something I never have to go through again.

Hi, I fully understand how you must be feeling.

Nearly 2 years ago I lost my beautiful 10 year old male Dobermann to the dreaded curse that is called bloat.  It's common within the deep chested breeds and I have alot of friends who have had their dogs go down with it.  I have always been aware of the problem and done all the things that are advised fed up on a stand, soaked food, not walked before or after food etc.  It strikes so fast though, one minute he was fine, the next the stomach had filled with air and was rigid.  Never has my OH driven so fast, he was in the vet within 10 mins, was given painkillers and an x-ray, but his spleen had twisted first taking the gut with it, vet could have operated, but given the severity of the problem, the poor prognosis his age and the fact he had a few other problems we had to say good bye.  The vet was brilliant and went through what had happened as I needed to understand why one minute my boy was with me and next he was gone, apparantly as a dog ages their spleen loosens and hangs down thus meaning that if it swings round and over it can take the gut with it.  To this day I wonder if I could have done things differently, but in 26 years of Dobe ownership I have never experienced this before.  You did nothing wrong, it was fate and I agree that you must always soak the kibble, also put an upturned cup in the bowl, this slows the dog down meaning that they don't take as much air down as they would when they gulp the food down.

Hope I have helped just a little

I doubt that it was that rare more than likely many didn't have TV's, they definitely didn't have computers, many wouldn't have phones etc. so people wouldn't know about it as easily  as we do nowadays.  Not saying that dried food isn't a big cause of it but...

Hi Moomins.

Sorry to read of your loss last year, own a breed that is known for bloat. I am not a fan of complete foods but have found one that has to be soaked and interestingly the gurgling tummies have stoped. Buscopan would be great to have as back up, can you get it over the counter or do you need a script? Many thanks for your post. Lacy

Yes i too lost a dog to bloat myneautiful flatti. She had not been fed nor excercised before it happened but in her case had just returned from 5days away from me and a massive operation to remove part of her jaw from cancer. The previous evening she had gluped down loads of cold water but had eaten very little in the 24 hours before it all kicked off.
My be I was slow to realise what was happening as we were watching her for reations to the operation not anything else but on realising and rushing her to the vet it became obvious. Sadly the vet opened her up to find her stomach walls were paper thin and twisted and could do nothing apart from pts.
I now watch my dogs like a hawk particularly as I  have agsd who can be prone to this. i have also used gaviscon if he appears to be uncomfortable had never thought of buscopan but will keep that as I have some too.
Have heard that complete diets me make the problem worse but have now gone over to raw not for that reason but have heard that raw can reduce the likely hood. maybe that is wht in the 50 and 60 it was less common as most dogs would have been fed meat not complete food just a thought.   

Hi Lacy,

You can buy Buscopan over the counter at any chemist/supermarket but if you get it from a chemist dont tell them its for a dog. Our vets keep some in stock but told us to buy it over the counter as its cheaper than getting it from them.

x

GDV/bloat is most definitely on the increase and being seen in some breeds thought not at risk. I can only think there must be a familial or hereditary link. One of my friends is a vet nurse at out-of-hours emergency vets and he sees endless GDV cases - they are one of the most common emergencies they get. Would you have thought Dachshunds and Min Schnauzers at risk....? As well as the large and giant breeds, he's seen GDV in these too over the last year.

Moomins. Many thanks, Know from experience not to say who it's for. Asked for benzle benzate in boots last year, taken by surprise when asked who it was for (know now to say husband!) so mumbled a reply, and told to speak up!
When I eventually said it was for my dog, I was given a lecture about it being illegal.

Hi Moomins

What dose of Buscopan do you give? It's a very handy tip to add to my list but I'd just like to check dose. My dogs are between 15kg - 20kg so I am thinking a half tablet would be suffice.

I give one tablet if any symptoms should occur that's normally all you need, they are quite small tablets and I dont think you would be able to split them in half? 1 should be fine.

I have just read an article on Bloat, it gives a good explanation and it has a risk table by breed.

Worth looking at, click :-
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1571&aid=402

I lost my girl AB Tatty to bloat :( but what's worse is it took us 24 hrs to realise what it was :(

I'd never seen it before, and she always was a sicky dog, so I didn't think much when she started vomiting. She was off her food all day and that's normal for her when she got sick. The next morning she wouldn't get up for a walk and that was really weird :( then she collapsed in the flower beds, completely unconcious. I rang my vet, a jibbering wreck and was told they could squeeze her in at 2pm (it was 12.10pm) so my partner literally carried her, all 52kgs, across town to vet (sod's law car was in garage)

Half an hour later the vet was softly asking me if I'd like to;
a) spend £3000 ish on an op that in her op would fail
b) have her PTS
c) morphine so me and the kids could say goodbye.

I went for c. She still managed to lift her head and lick me and wag her tail, despite the vet saying she must have beenin appalling agony. The vet, assistant, me, kids, partner all crying.

We GENUINELY had NO idea she was so ill, she hadn't even whimpered :( now I'm very, very careful about what I feed :( must have been the dry food over expanding. I always feed at least an hour after a walk, or two before.

Tatty was also a rescue with a long history of medical problems, so her being sick was nothing new. Poor Billy, if he so much as yawns funny, I'm down my vet!!Neurotic? Yes. I never wish to see an animal suffer like that, or ever think I would have contributed to it... What if I'd picked it up earlier?? Believe me, I've done all the soul searching and self flagellating. I don't think I could have done anything different :( I still miss her so much.

Oh and the vet said to me it normally kills in 24 hrs, god knows how Tatty made it 36?? She thought it must have been sheer will power. :( no gurgling, no frothing, no obvious upset. Just vomiting and she was still eating til the morning she died.