hi just to update you my bitch was telling off alot a male pup of 8 weeks and it  has now bitten another pup 3 times on the ear and drawn blood this was not playing as teeth shown and other pup crying vet sais it was a 1 off but has now happen 3 times to same pup the other boy  l m not sure what to do both mum anddad of pups have excellant temparments and the dog who is being aggresive is not ill in any way so is it still normal puppy behaviour or should lbe doing something about it help please new to this .

I am confused is it the pup that Mum had told off biting another pup, or pup now biting another pup.

If the latter has Mum an escape route from the pups, able to come to them when she wants, but able to get right away if she wants?

I'm in agreement Brainless little confusing, the way I am reading it is that the bitch is an older bitch pup that you have who is attacking some of the litter, otherwise surely it would say my bitch is attacking her pup? But, I could be completely on the wrong track and it may well be the Dam?

If this is the Dam I agree sounds like she has no escape, and is becoming disheartend and stressed the pups are 8 weeks so if she is hurting them I would keep her away now, if another bitch pup, same advice she obviously finds the pups irritating some dogs aren't keen on pups at all, so keep this bitch away from them, I wouldn't allow any dog near my litter that drew blood and actually hurt them not even the Dam if it came to it, think of the effect on the pups too, it's one thing having the Dam give them a quick reminder if coming on too much but another to draw blood, look after the litter and don't let them come to any more harm.

Or are these pups not yours, someone elses whom your pup visits, ? If so I wouldn't allow your pup near, keep her away from them, take her to puppy classes and socialised her, perhaps she plays too hard with pups much less capable and if she is young she doesn't understand, so best to let her play with pups and dogs more her size. :-)

hi sorry did l not make much sense mt bitch gad a litter 8 weeks ago  she was a great mum  and has been sorting out any play fights etc she was a bit rough with the 2 boys but this has now settled  down what has happen yesterday is 1 of my bitches puppies has attcked his brother of the same litter by biting his ear to it drew blood it has happened 4 times over a 24hour period l dont know what to do vet says it will grow out of it and he is trying to show his dominance  so l am not sure what to do  please any ideas will help  pups are 9weeks on monday

Oh, I'm completely on the wrong track aren't I? 

Just realised DOH! The bitch pup is a littermate isn't it? (nope now editing my post - a dog :-D,  can't keep up here) This is a sibling playing too hard and hurting the brother! In which case just make sure you home him to people capable of following 'The Bite Stops Here' he's a fiesty one and make sure he does not go to a home with young chiildren You get all sorts of characters in a litter, pups at this age really can hurt one another they drag others around by the ear etc. I would however play with him/her whoever more myself and distract him you don't want your new owners coming for your pups with blooded ears etc, he may pick on this male because he is an easy target or because he takes him on, difficult when not there to know. But pups do fight and play hard.

Sorry about the confusion before. :-(

Sometimes in a litter there is just a bitch or dog like this, but it has nothing to do with how they mature, just make sure you place the pups with the right people who will keep him calm and know how to handle him if he continues this rough play for a little while after leaving.

But, I would definitely distract him from this behaviour, have you got new toys and experiences for them to explore, with the weather so nice get new things out in the garden and sit out there with them so if he starts you can jump in.

[deleted by admin - duplicate post]

hi again just 1 thing to add to last post male pup who attacking other male pup is only doing it when there is a competitive situation ie going out of a door or food or meeting people

No such thing as aggression in an 8 week old puppy.

Just a normal puppy doing normal puppy things.  Like biting!  :-)

He may well be a more dominant assertive pup. although dogs are not dominant towards people there are definite differences in pups in a  litter. With some well able to stick up for them selves and some who always seem to get picked on. What breed are these puppies? I know we are nor supposed to talk about  breed but it is relevant in a case like this as some breeds are much more likely to fought each other than others. Eg gundogs are usually fairly soft mouthed, but some terriers are really violent little thugs. I saw a litter of Belgian shepherds at 4-5  weeks and it was shocking how roughly they played. Just like a little wolf pack.

Never having experienced this, I find it hard to believe that pups can draw blood when playing with each other. 

My concern would be for the new owner, are they prepared for a dominant pup and are you sure they are able to cope with it, if not, you may find yourself with pup being returned to you.

>What breed are these puppies? I know we are nor supposed to talk about  breed but it is relevant in a case like this as some breeds are much more likely to fought each other than others.

You have my permission to name the breed as I agree it may be relevant. It will also help members offer you their advice and what they would/would not do in such situations.

To me it sounds as though he just gets overly excited when you bring something like food of people to him and is just a bit OTT>  Wouldn't say that this is an aggressive pup.

Admin the breed may be very relevant. On the point of aggression in pups it my be of interest to remember the seminal work of Scott and Fuller who observed the much greater aggression/"dominance" in wire haired fox terrier pups in comparison to other breeds- Basenjis, Beagles, Shelties and Cocker Spaniels. They stated that "severe fighting" could break out in this breed as early as 7 weeks.

This chimes with observations of that great terrier man D Brian Plummer who noted that Lakelands and Fox Terriers would make for beautiful, show winning dogs, but they were a nightmare to kennel as they would fight to the death with other dogs.

I myself have known highly aggressive behaviour between pups as early as 8 weeks, where one pup has slashed the side of another, requiring stitches- Staff/an other bull breed mix.

Surely most pups, even young ones, come equipped with some degree of aggression- it's necessary for survival. The breeding/type, sexual status, the individual pup's drives, the environment and the process of nurture will all determine how and when and to what degree the pup exercises aggressive behavior.

>Admin the breed may be very relevant.

Admin agrees with you. "You have my permission to name the breed as I agree it may be relevant." :-)

i was reading this and thought...uh oh...what is this rule i did nto see about not naming BREED ??? so i went off and re read ! and STILL can't see it ! and actually find that totally POINTLESS if there were such a rule ???? how odd ! of course it is ALWAYS relevfant mostly ! or else talking moggies...or whatever dogs are called is so general as to be useless !

oh my pup is a BELGIAN i do not hesitate to re mention ! not wanting to put anyone off them ! and ADORES biting ! not all her littermates seem to seeing the unmauled arms of her brother's owners !!! now of course i suggest getting a KITTEN for any biting pup ! the CLAWS of a kitten with no CLAW INHIBITION make even a BELGIAN SQUEEL and think again !

oh si. never had a better aid than that kitten recently who got fed up of being throttled by my pup and took matters into his own hands at 7 months old he GREETS ME with claws digging in ! not going to find any help about that here of course...that is a TIGER ! FELINE ! more than a match for any dog i can tell you ! only my pups' RUMP is a cushion agains that thing ! LOL !!

i did have ONE row with said kitten owner...she maintained kit DID NOT ATTACK My pup first...and DID NOT SCRATCH ! well JUST LOOK AT MY ANTIQUE CHAIRS for evidence of THAT fallacy i said ! and MY PUP SQUEELED first time it MET that thing ! we did not speak again for some time...she was going on about dogs being unpredictable and afraid of waving papers and likely to BITE suddenly...poppycock to that...just TRAIN a pup to put up with blowing at it too cool it down on hot days...and WAVE paper fans at it...soon realises it is pleasant...my pup now even puts her FACE into the open window for cool air when i drive ! it is VERY hot in southern France. and i don't like aircon makes my sensitive eyes smart and weep. could do my pups' eyes too come to think of it.

ouch.. my inner legs are now a target for bites...nips...HORRIBLE BREED TRAIT !! so ? excuse me...she needs DISTRACTING !

Never having experienced this, I find it hard to believe that pups can draw blood when playing with each other.

I've had it happen in a recent litter of Papillons. Very small pups, but gosh have they got tempers! They drew blood on each other's ears several times. Of course, the ears are rather large as well. :)

>what is this rule i did nto see about not naming BREED ??? so i went off and re read ! and STILL can't see it !

It applies to people who have a litter of puppies, because it could be interpreted as advertising ("My litter of xxxxxx has arrived ..." means that in 7 weeks time there are xxxxx puppies for sale), and advertising is banned on the forum. Where animals aren't for sale it's fine to mention the breed.

Hope this helps. :-)

ach so ! makes sense yes ! i agree with that rule then. Thought to myself...why am i not understanding this rule about breed mentions ? where is it implied even ? ah si...the SUBTLETIES of English sometimes i thought...READ HARD ! LOL !!!

To go off topic for one tiny moment. Black Fairy, your pup has quite the naughtiest face I have ever seen (as shown in your picture). One of the reasons I wondered if your early postings were a huge practical joke was because the pup in your picture looks more like an impish teddy bear than a pup- at least from a distance and without my specs on!

OOOH !!! that is nice to know ! my PUP puts my credibility into queestion !!! LOL !!! that is HILARIOUS ! she is cheeky faced yes now i think about it...cocks her head often to the side when talking to me...oh she talks...BARKS and whines and all sorts with paws on my legs just now trying to avoid what she thought was another car trip...she does not LIKE the car...PULLED me by the ARM again full bite on !! to get me OUT of the lift i was jamming the door of trying all the coaxing coodgey coo coo words possible !!! sigh. i really do try and NEGOTIATE with her !

which leads me after succedding in getting her to agree to get into the lift to go out ...to my next post...about ? POOH POOH that people should pick up...sigh...i was in FULL RANT mode on my website...to the residents of this block...IN FRONT OF THE ENTRANCE ??? for kids to step into ??? and NO ONE BOTHERED that i spoke to about ??? were SEVERAL of the T words ! oooh...i am in FULL RAGE mode...as in RABID...but my language is not foul ! the BEHAVIOUR OF THE FRENCH RESIDENTS IS THOUGH ! and i say so...VERY GOOD FRENCH INDEED in case they try and make a comment about that too ! OOOH..my ACCENT is not heard in cyberspace...but ? the PRICE OF THESE LUXURY APPARTMENTS could GO DOWN with my statements ! so ? LET THEM CLEAN IT UP !!! or else ? well money talks...property prices hey...hit them where it hurts...I do NOT wish to have aggressive or pooh poohing dog owners annoying me !

all i did...was go out for a few minutes in the complex...never walk around here...and my oh my...all the doggy pooh i saw !

http://www.obcarskas.eu/20.html this bit about pooh poohs owners need to clean up...

http://www.obcarskas.eu/23.html this bit about how to handle aggressive dogs in public. sigh. well that is what the internet is useful for hey i say. MIGHT MAKE SOMETHING CHANGE AROUND HERE ! am too lazy to get a stamp out for paper letters.

Interesting reading...

I agree, it is cringeing to see how rough pups play with each other. With our last litter (GR's) they were all over the place, the growling was a little disconcerting sometimes, but we did break it up if it got too rough. We also had a little girl who was so meek and mild, it wasn't fair to see her getting picked on. The boys were like a band of brothers who would streak about in a gang, and break off every now and again for a play fight. The girls were definitely the feistiest and the 3 out of the 4 girls were little madams...lol!

I'm sure the face we never had any serious fall outs with our lot had something to do with the breed, but I agree it does sound/look aggressive.

From what the OP is saying, this one pup is really being pushy with his sibling, that's why the mother was telling him off in her last post. I think we miss so much of what our dogs communicate to each other. This little boy obviously needed putting in place, he's going to need to go to a family that can keep him on the right track or he'll probably take over.

I'm intrigued to know what the breed is also, I wonder if it is relevant?

hi thanks for all your intresting posts the pups in questions are all sold so lam not advertising them l just want some guidence from  some other breeders   so a big thanks to all of you who have replied anyway they are  black and tan terriers  this morning we had a fight between 3 pups all who drew blood  on ears  l  all quite shocked whewn split up and quite upset afterwoods

I had rather thought they might be some kind of terrier, as this is the only type of dog where I had heard from breeders of them acting this way so young.

Have you a mentor experienced in this type of terrier to consult for the best way forward.

hi no l have not. any  advice greatfully received thanks l do believe they are trying to hurt each other l feel nervous selling when they are behaving like this

Are you not in touch with the breeder of your bitch and the stud dog owner?

hi breeder moved away  and stud dog in regular contact all just woken up so on tender hooks waiting for it to kick off again it is so upsetting for my children this cant be normal puppy behavour

Sounds like it may be fairly common for terriers, especially strong working types (what combination of breeds are yours?) but then your breeder and the stud owner should able to advise?

I think its well to watch mothers with their pups and how they interact with particular ones. I've had a feisty pup (female) and her mother always kept her in control and was constantly putting her in her place. At first, I thought what an awful mother, picking on that one pup, but after watching, you could see that this pup was constantly strutting her stuff and being combative to the others.

Some breeds of puppies do fight. Its not playing by any means and it can get very rough with plenty of snarling. I would certainly say terriers, which are feisty in general could come under this umbrella also breeds which have a very strong sense of pack order.

I'm wondering, if they are 8 weeks old now, when they are going to their new homes?  It sounds to me that they would benefit now from being split up and going to their homes, rather than continuing to stay together and having more negative experiences with each other.

Terriers tend to do this. The old working terrier men said that the worst fighters were the best workers!

Adam