Hi everyone, This is my first post so please excuse if it is too long and drawn out but like the previous poster (Re Boxer) I am at my wits end!!
We have a 10 month old beautiful Tibetan Terrier who seems to have been a heartache since we got him. We do have an 11 year old TT as well so we were well aware of what we were taking on before we got him lol!!!!(our 11 year old has of course calmed down a long time ago and is healthy apart from rheumatoid arthritis)
Well anyway we got our TT from a very reputable breeder, all health checks and DNA profile on record so no worries there. They were brilliant with him and kept him until he was 12 weeks as he was travelling home with us to Northern Ireland.
Of course we had the puppy tantrums, a bit of seperation anxiety and hard to house train at the start but by time he was 5 months or so we had the house training cracked and he had started to settle down.
We had him neutered when he was 6 and a half months and then all the problems started. He seemed to think he could get off with anything and tormented our 11 year old when he didn't get his own way. At this time he started to have problems with his poohs - in other words we came down to presents every morning!!! Then the poop turned to colitis - so, after having a behaviourist visit(she told us he was an attention seeker and set out rules which we stuck too) we took him to the vet. Our vet suggested we change him from puppy food on to adult as the puupy food was probably too rich for him at 8 months. So, we changed him gradually on to JWB chicken and rice. No difference! Still loose stools and still presents in the morning even though he is taken out every evening between 9-30 and 10 pm and does a poop while on his walk. (He also does one about an hour after his dinner)
On the days he poops in the house he won't eat his breakfast and prowls around  the house or back garden with is tail down and seems uninterested in anything. At other times he is acting the idiot as usual!!! He is a really friendly pup and just loves people and other doggies.
He has been back to vet and we were told to try JWB Fish & rice but two weeks on (after a gradual change) we are still coming down to poops and still having the off days. We can tell he has pain in his tummy as he keeps stretching out and when he does decide to eat it takes him forever to finish his food. (Definitely not getting too much, in fact less than the recommended amount) Our other TT has wolfed hers down and is off long before Fred finishes his!!!! BTW she can eat anything and in her life time has eaten a lot of things she shouldn't with no ill effect.
I really do not know what to do next as we are aware it is not a good idea to keep changing food. Fred does not get any treats apart from one mini bonio mid morning and maybe half of one after he has been on the grooming table. He does however eat plants and leaves in the garden!!!! We don't think we have anything poisonous out there as I've gone through the internet to check all the toxic plants and we def do not have those.
Do you think there is any possibility the neutering has had anything to do with this condition as we just find it strange that as a young puppy he ate well and had no problems with runny poohs or colitis. Maybe I'm clutching at straws!!!!!!
Sorry this has been so long but hopefully some one will be able to help a little. (I do have good support with my breeder but now feel as if I'm being a total nuisance as every time we think we have turned a corner something else turns up)
hope I haven't bored you all. Thanks .......

Hi

I have a Malinois, bred by myself so I know exactly how he was reared etc, that was much the same -whatever food we tried, his stomach was never good. Yet his litter sister that I also have was fine. Eventually at about 6 months of age we gave up on all dog food and started feeding this dog raw meat and bones ONLY, and from that day on he has not had a single problem -the only odd time it has happened has been if we have given him dog treats rather than bits of sausage or something else meaty as treats. I have heard of quite a few dogs having stomach problems sorted by being fed raw meat only -it's natural for them, they love it and it may very well sort your dog out so I'd give it a go if I was you.

You need to present him back to your vet and take a faecal sample with you and have a full faecal analysis, there are many bacteria which could cause similar symptoms.

A worm count - to detect either the presence or absence of worms - which could also cause similar symptoms.

Eating rubbish could also cause similar symptoms

Does he drink out of puddles, ponds etc., these are sometimes colonised by bacteria which could cause similar symptoms.

It would also help the vet if they can see the consistency, colour etc. of the loose faeces.

Hi, Thanks for your replies.
As for the raw diet, our vet was horrified when my husband mentioned it and said "No Way" But, We have been looking in to that though.

We did take a sample of colitis to the vet whereupon he told my husband "He just loved it when he got presents" He just said it was colitis!!
No, he doesn't drink out of puddles or ponds. He is usually walked on hard ground and doesn't even sniff a lot.
We don't have grass in our back garden so he does usually go for a bit of conifer on his off days. I expect he wants to be sick???
He is never actually sick, its just bloody or loose poops we are contending with but it is clear all is not well with him. He is lying in his bed feeling quite sorry for himself this morning. Maybe we should seek a second opinion???

Has he had a full faecal analysis?   Some bacterial infections cause blood in the faeces.

Still think that you need to go back to the vet who has all the necessary medications to hand which may help.  Regarding a second opinion has the vet had enough opportunity to look at all the possible causes?  If he has and cannot solve it you are entitled to ask for a referral or even see another vet within the practice.   Referrals can be expensive.    Problem with dogs they cannot tell you where they are hurting.

The sample was taken to the vet hoping he would test it but he put it in the bin after looking at it which hubby thought was a bit strange. We will take him back again and ask for full tests to be done
I mentioned a second opinion as it seems our vet is not very interested in getting to the bottom of this. (What I realy meant was to change our vet) our visits have cost in the region of £50 -60 each time and no mention of putting it on to an insurance claim
Fred has had antibiotics, anti inflammation tabs (and canikur on two ocassions)  these seem to work for the time he is on them but as soon as they are finsihed it all flares up again

Maybe just worth mentioning we had a little Shih Tzu (god bless her) who was on steroids from the age of 4 due to colitis, but, it was pointed out to us when she was very young it was down to very poor breeding. She had lots of other problems including an oversized heart, growth plates didn't form properly, suffered from bilious vomitting and her back gave in when she was 8. Poor girl spent most of her life at the vets until we had to say good bye to her last year. Have never got over losing her as she was just the most loving dog ever even during all her pain.

As you can imagine this has made us really worried that Freddy is going to be a poorly dog. I don't think I could cope with it all over again so the sooner we get it sorted the better

Yes, you need to get to the bottom of it with him being so young, you do not want it to become chronic, i.e. long term.

Without a faecal analysis, even when put on antibiotics if it is the wrong AB, the bacteria is not sensitive to it, it will only hold the condition in abeyance and as soon as they come off the antibiotics the condition returns.  Once they have run tests if there is a bacteria responsible for his colitis they also do sensitivity tests and the results will tell you which antibiotic to be used, if any, if there is not a bacterial infection, the vet has to look for another cause.   And there can be many causes - colitis means inflammation of the lining of the large intestine, there are certain parasites that can also mimic this, giardia is one, it causes inflammation of the small intestine but mimics inflammation of the large intestine - there are special tests for this which would not be covered in a normal faecal analysis.   Worth also mentioning to your vet.

If it is a continuation of the same condition then surely it should be claimed from your Insurance Co.  Until it is sorted he needs to be fed a bland diet which will not upset the lining of the bowel, something like white fish, or chicken with boiled rice (cooked until mushy), nothing that is fatty.

Thanks so much for your replies. you have been so helpful. I am going to make an appointment to see our vet again and demand tests.
We will also mention the insurance as you say it is an ongoing condition. no point in us paying out a fortune when we have insurance!
Freddy's grandfather had giardia (as far as I know) and passed away at a very young age. I think this has made me worry even more!!!!!! although I don't know if it is something that could be passed on?
Meanwhile I will get him some white fish or chicken and feed that with rice until we get to the bottom of it.

Hope that you get to the bottom of it.

Giardia is a protozoa - it can be picked up almost anywhere in the environment - useful link below.   But it may not be that at all, it is just one possibility.   That is why you need to go back to your vet and get a definitive diagnosis.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2102&aid=739

"On the days he poops in the house he won't eat his breakfast and prowls around  the house or back garden with is tail down and seems uninterested in anything. At other times he is acting the idiot as usual!!! He is a really friendly pup and just loves people and other doggies.
He has been back to vet and we were told to try JWB Fish & rice but two weeks on (after a gradual change) we are still coming down to poops and still having the off days. We can tell he has pain in his tummy as he keeps stretching out and when he does decide to eat it takes him forever"

One of my old girls, no longer with us, but lived to the grand age of almost 15 years, used to behave like this when she was young. We helped her by making sure her tummy was never empty. She always had a doggy biscuit last thing before bedtime, and was fed three times a day. All through her life she had a sensitive tummy, both to stress and food, but was never really ill from it.

Your boy's problem might not be the same at all, but as I recognized the behaviour, stretching, eating grass/leaves, and looking sorry for himself, I thought I'd mention it.
Good luck with your boy.
Karen

>Still loose stools and still presents in the morning even though he is taken out every evening between 9-30 and 10 pm and does a poop while on his walk. (He also does one about an hour after his dinner)

Hi, and welcome.  I can't help with the medical aspect but I wonder if there is anything you can do about your timings.  Whatever the reasons for it, constantly having to clean up after him will affect your mood and also your relationship with him.  No matter how hard you try it's quite difficult not to look and sound fed up when you are shovelling poo!!

Do you know what time he goes in the night/morning?  I'd suggest setting your alarm for a while to see if you can help by getting him outside before he goes.  Also review the times of feeding, bedtimes, exercise etc to see if you can find a way which works for him.  For instance a later walk might help him

Re: raw feeding - it's not as difficult as you might think - if there is a possibility it could work for him it may be worth a try.  There's plenty of research material on the net and quite a few raw feeders on here you can ask.   I've been doing it for a year and much prefer it for my two. :)

Yes, I would insist on having a faecal sample tested. This could be Campylobacter and therefore would need a special antibiotic to counteract it.

Do you give any "teeth cleaning" treats?  Just asking as a Spanish that I sold was like this.  Had these every day and I advised to cut this down and he became much better.  He also improved on a total fish diet which he's now been on for nearly 5 years and is a very fit and active boy.

Hi I have PM'ed you. I also have a TT with these issues. Please be careful if you use Salazopyrin. It may, and has in my dogs case, cause 'dry eye' which is irreversable and you will need a very expensive ointment called Optimmune. If its not treated with this it can likely cause blindness :O(  As if we haven't enough with the colitis/IBD.
I always check when I've been to the vets. I go online straight away to find out what I can about the drugs shes been given! Unfortunately I didn't pick up on the dry eye issue quick enough!! vet blamed it on the breed. Seen plenty of TT's and TT people and they have never heard of it being a problem in the breed. I shall mention the Salazopyrin to the vet when I next see her, although I'm sure she'll already be aware of its side effects.
If I can be any help at all pm me. I know exactly what you are going through.
Anne

Thanks for all your replies and sorry for not responding sooner. Have just got time to get online!!!
Freddy has been back to the vets last night and he doesn't seem that concerned. He insists it is a food issue and we just have to try to find a food to suit. So, Freddy is now on Hills ID to see how that goes.
He also got an injection, a high dose wormer in case it is a parasite. And, the dreaded Salazopyrin which I'm not too happy about now!!!!
Today he has been fine, breakfast at eight, dinner at 6 and has just come back from his walk where hi poop was firm :-)
But, as before we suspect he will be back to square one when the tablets etc are finished.

He has been in the same routine food wise since he we got him (I mean fed at the same times) He normally goes out at 6-45 am for a wee and sometimes a poop but on some occassions he gets very upset when hubby leaves for work so I have to jump out of bed to try to get downstairs before Freddy has left me his present. Although, hubby has come down more often to find the present first!!!!!!!
I know I am not very good at hiding my annoyance when I have to clean up splat as soon as I get up  but I always say NOTHING and put Freddy outside until I get it cleaned up. Our girl gets really embarrassed and won't even walk over the utility room floor after I've got it cleaned up LOL!!!
She must forget she did it herself when she was very young..........NOT SPLAT though!!!!!!!!!

Oh Sorry, Forgot, No, he didn't get any teeth cleaning treats. Just nylabones, and he did get a mini bonio once a day (we have been told to stop that too) if I was going out. That was the dogs routine. - We get a biccy, go out for a wee then in to bed so as Mum can go out shopping or whatever.
Now my 11 year old is looking at us with great distaste as all treats are banned until Freddy's tum gets sorted. (If I give Jude a treat Freddy is over checking out her mouth to see whats she has got so for now neither get any. Well, Fred thinks that!!!!! When he is out on a walk Jude gets hers :-) Cruel Mummy lol!

Hi. Not got a clue about the health issues here, but my friend's dog was exactly the same, she went through all the diet options too, but it never made any difference. Boogie never barked to get out during the night, just poo'd on the kitchen floor. Fed twice a day 8.00am and 3.00pm. He too was walked and emptied his bowels before bedtime, also he did it when left for even a short while on his own. She realised that when he was allowed to sleep in a certain bedroom he was clean.