I'd like to know how these magic vets are able to diagnose so many different ailments in the same dog just by looking at him! He's been given  so many different types of medication for different things which he may or may not have, he's turned into a walking pharmacy. It's like theyre covering all thier options without actually trying to find out the problem!

I know the PDSA are important and im grateful....but what im not grateful for is this specific clinic's inability to actually diagnose a problem and treat it appropriately. I try not to get angry because its a free service, but its hard not to when my dog is on deaths door and they stand there going "hmm maybe this or maybe that, lets put him on more medication just incase"

So far my dog could be ailed with the following:

vesitbular syndrome
stroke
anurism
arthritis
leg trauma
neurological damage affecting the back legs
ear infection
kennel cough

I know it cant possibly be all of them. Thats ridiculous.

Now my dog is on antibiotics or an infection he may never had, vivetonin for a syndrome which was misdiagnosed, twice, steroids for what? pain? its not going to solve my dogs problem....anti inflamation for an injury he may or may not have sustained, medication for a stroke he may have had...

If only we could afford to take him to a real vet and have REAL tests and a REAL diagnosis!!

I suppose its not much better than the service we get from the nhs.

sorry to appear ungrateful....but I guess I am a little...when I go to a vet a make a donation i expect to receive a diagnosis and appropriate treatment...not second guesses and endless return trips.

current symptoms if anyones willing to help :(

back leg weakness, sudden stiffness in one leg, lethargy, extreme drooling (clear saliva) listlessness, wobbly movement, slow uncomfortable way of eating.

when he had his first steroid injection he perked right up as to be expected, started acting like a pup again, seemed to have no problem whatsovever getting, no leg weakness, no wobbling, then once the jab wore of he rapidly worsened again.

the irony is is that we've spent as much money on donations as we would have done with one trip to a proper vet! about £100 in donations and no diagnosis vs the cost of a private vet and some diagnosis.

Its all driving me a bit batty!!!

Laura

What the vets are trying to do is treat your dog in the most cost effective way possible to both yourself and the charity.

To be able to properly diagnose if the dog has had a/got a stroke/anurism/neurological disease would be an MRI
and not sure if they do the same for dogs as humans but a lumbar puncture may also be done.
The MRI is very expensive and is going to cost a four figure sum and then some.
Plus you'd also have the cost of the referral fee too - this can be upwards of £250.
(Which is significantly more than the £100 so far that it's cost you in donations).

The symptoms that you describe could well be attributed to all those conditions that your vets have mentioned.
Sure the dog won't have every single condition that they have mentioned but they are treating on a trial and error basis
to rule out each condition. So with each medication that your dog is prescribed they are looking to see if there's any improvement.
Which could then indicate possibly what sort of condition that they are looking at.

Lets face reality medications are relatively cheap to purchase and a much cheaper alternative to the charity than the
very expensive diagnostic tests that possibly could give you a diagnosis for your dog.
Look at it like this potentially £2,000 or more to diagnose your dog, could treat/help 20 dogs for other ailments going on a £100 cost per dog.
The charity is going to try and help more dogs (they also have legal obilgations to make sure that their funds are used properly - various laws in place rgarding charities and their funds).

My dog had developed persistant vomitting etc - her vet bill came to over £1000 for all treatments and diagnostic tests and that's not
being referred to a specialist centre which could well have cost an awful lot more. I'm lucky in that I am able to afford to have her insured
She's a veteran now and costs nearly £150 per month to insure her (I hate to think what it goes up to on renewal this year).
But I still had to shell out the money first before the insurance company paid out.
It turns out that she has dietry intolerances - we haven't bothered going for the allergy testing which can cost approx £500 as we have solved it by going on a prescription food.
I count myself lucky as I have been able to afford pet insurance & vets bills, not everyone is so lucky.

Sorry that you feel so frustrated but at least you have got some treatment for your dog.
Keep positive as your dog will be able to pick up on how you are feeling.

Your dog sounds a bit like my mum's elderly GSD that her vets thought he had a series of strokes due to old age.
Sadly Merlin was PTS just before Christmas as his back end had completely gone and because of her own mobility issues
(can barely move around herself and her partner refused to help) she had to accept that his dignity and well being had to come first.

Hope that the PDSA are able to continue to help your boy and that his condition improves for you.

> what im not grateful for is this specific clinic's inability to actually diagnose a problem and treat it appropriately. I try not to get angry because its a free service, but its hard not to when my dog is on deaths door and they stand there going "hmm maybe this or maybe that, lets put him on more medication just incase"
>

Diagnosis by ellimination is often the way vets work. If they were to do any tests, they would have to decide what they needed to test for before running the tests, in just the same way as these vets are trying to rule out illness by treatment.

When my pup had a limp the first thing was Metacam, see how he goes on that. It didn;t work so back to the vets..

Dogs can  not speak, they can  not say where the pain is/what bit doesn't feel right. All the vet can do is match the symtoms to an illness and treat that illness. If the treatment doesn't work, next illness.

Best of luck for your dog.

>sorry to appear ungrateful....but I guess I am a little...when I go to a vet a make a donation i expect to receive a diagnosis and appropriate treatment...not second guesses and endless return trips.

Yes, you really do appear ungrateful.  Perhaps you didn't mean it to come across quite so strongly...

Many of us run up enormous bills whilst our vets eliminate one condition after another.  Your £100 in donations will be nowhere near the actual costs.  It's not unusual to have bills of £100 per visit/treatment let alone the range of visits you've had.

I'm not unsympathetic about your dog and I know that you must be anxious.  However it sounds as if you are getting appropriate vet care, and you are certainly getting value for money.  I'm not sure why you think a 'real vet' would be different - in fact a PDSA clinic is sometimes more likely to have seen a very wide range of conditions.  Sadly, there are some conditions that can be very difficult to diagnose.  I do hope you get an effective solution soon

I am sorry you feel you have been poorley treated over this but vet fees are exhorbitant. I have had a limping pup for over 6 months and it took trips to a orthopaedic specialist and numerous tests before we got to the bottom of it. It is not always easy to find a "Diagnosis" as unfortunatly dogs can not tell us what is wrong. My bill so far for this one injury has been over £2000 and that is not the end of it. She is still having physio and hydrotherapy. She is insured and luckily they have paid up without question...but you must realize the vets who work for charities have to spend the money carefully and they will try to eliminate causes first before spending huge amounts on specialist treatment.
I do think however hard it may be to pay for insurance it is a very nessesary part of owning an animal.
I hope things start to look up for you soon.
Aileen

LauraMay - both vets and doctors cannot always instantly reach a diagnosis - they work on a list of differential diagnoses (and it sounds like they have been discussing those with you and most of them fit in with symptoms) and have to do tests to eliminate things. The PDSA is limited in how much they can do. You might well be in the same situation if you were seeing a private vet - it sounds as though your dog has a complex list of symptoms. The PDSA is a charity and have to do what they can on a limited budget. I understand how frustrating and upsetting it must be for you to see your dog ill and not to have a cause - but sometimes a definite diagnosis is never given. I don't know how much you have donated - but investigations at private vets can run into thousands!

> sorry to appear ungrateful....

You do sound a bit that way!! I can understand that you are worried sick about your dog - but I think what you need more is treatment that helps than a diagnosis - maybe put it to them that way. Have you told them the first steroid injection helped a lot? I have my fingers crossed that you get something to help him. How old is he? And I'm guessing he's the handsome GSD in the picture? Were his symptoms sudden or gradual?

Laura May,

Sometimes you just can't get a diagnosis.  In cases like that the vet treats the symptoms.  I had a similar problem to you back in 1999.  My cat was showing similar symptoms to what you describe - tho a few differences too.  The vet was flummoxed, but gave steroids and antibiotics, return a week later.  We were back in 4 days.  The cat was much worse, dehydrated, not eating and was becoming paralysed, her eyes were looking to the side and she had a head tilt.  They kept her in on a drip and under observation over the weekend.   12 vets consulted over that cat and all advised PTS as they couldn't see that she'd recover and had NO IDEA what was wrong.  I asked for a few days grace and took her home with AB's and steroid cover.  She could only move her front leg and purr (she dragged herself to me! <BIG gulp>), we had to syringe feed her, express urine and massage her to toilet.   Within hours she was showing a little improvement, clearly stress had played it's part, and the vet was happy for us to continue as long as the cat improved.  By the end of the week there was definite improvement and the vet was happy to continue ABs and Steroids, I had to give Physio + massage 4x daily.  6 weeks later the cat was back to normal, we never did get a diagnosis, there were just too many possibilities to test for and with the cat being so ill it was felt that putting her through loads of tests would be cruel.

I never once thought the vets were useless, the vet looking after us was and still is wonderful.  Cost an arm and a leg (no PDSA, etc ) but I never once doubted that the vet was doing her best.  Perhaps if you were seeing the same vet every time you'd feel happier?

One of mine had been treated for an ear infection (not common in my prick eared dog) but unfortunately she was in whelp at the time the AB's used had to be safe, and it transpired that they had not knocked out the infection totally and when the pups were weaned she seemed rather quiet, so while getting pups jabs I asked them to check her and it turned out she had bravely been tolerating a hugely inflamed ear canal.

It ended up costing nearly £500, to finally clear it, regular check ups with repeat consult fees, lots of drops and A GA and syringing.

This was 3 years ago.

Unfortunately even the cost of treating something simple can really mount up.

£100 donation ... my last bill was £1400 ....
No PDSA around here...

Similar story to Dill's here, but for a cat I bred. Normal vets stumped, referred the cat to a top place (Queen Mother's vet hospital, the one from the TV programme "Super Vets"), even THERE, after two stays, the latest one for ten days, no diagnosis, and this cat has had almost all tests under the sun at a cost of over £3000 so far -thankfully she is insured.

I agree, vets can not always get it right first time, you dont say if the vets have done any blood tests!! If they haven't then you need to insist they do, as a lot can be told from their blood.  You also have to remember that the PDSA is a charity, they survive from peopls genorsity, so they will look for the cheapest option first, where as if you were paying for the treatment, the treatment you were getting for your dog maybe different. The R.S.P.C.A offer help towards the cost of vet bills, and also the blue cross (well the one by me does not sure anywhere else) has a vet clinic every Tuesday and Thursday for people on benefits and its the same vet each time from a local practice, this also works on donations.  Hope you get a diognosis soon, and your dog makes a full recovery!

Only me again, my pup had simular symptoms and it turned out to be MENINGITUS ask them to test for this, its done by taking bloods.  Just a suggestion not saying that it is the problem.

> If only we could afford to take him to a real vet and have REAL tests and a REAL diagnosis!!

Ive been following this thread for a while and now would like to say something. I know it must be very frustrating and upsetting not having a clear answer, but it's not always that simple.
I worked for the RSPCA Putney Animal Hospital in south London from 1995 to 2001 as a vet nurse. We had thousands of clients ALL on benefits from quite a wide area. We had no government funding and the facilities we offered to both owned and stray animals was the best we could. Our treatment wasn't completely free but at a HUGELY reduced amount compared to going to a private vet.
We used to do the equivalent of hundreds of pounds worth of orthopaedic operations on pets, and when some owners collected their animals (some who were with us for up to 2 weeks) they would leave a five pound donation and we NEVER see them again. I must say it was AWAYS the little old ladies that paid the most!
It was sometimes completely heartbreaking when a dog with spinal trauma came in and palliative treatment failed to work. We certainly didn't have facilities like MRI scanners etc. If a referral was needed the owners just couldn't afford and we sadly had to euthanase the poor pet.
Our vets and nurses all got paid MUCH less than if they worked in private practice, but this did not mean they were any less qualified or less caring. And yes, they were REAL vets and nurses, both who worked on site 24 hours a day.
I hope your dog gets better soon and makes a full recovery.

>Only me again, my pup had simular symptoms and it turned out to be MENINGITUS ask them to test for this, its >done by taking bloods.

Sometimes Meningitis can only be confirmed through Lumbar Puncture ;)  bloods don't help :(

In my cat's case, bloods didn't help at all.  Next step would have been lumbar puncture - with general anaesthetic.  Polio was also suspected (son had been recently immunised) and the test for that was muscle biopsy - but the tests wouldn't have affected the treatment or outcome, so it was felt better not to do them under the circumstances.

Dill this is all sounding so much like the cat I bred! Except with her it has now happened twice. First time loss of use of hindlegs, second time loss of use of all legs. She did have a lumbar puncture done this time, showed nothing. Muscle biopsy was mentioned a lot but for all sorts of reasons did not get done (about the only thing that wasn't done). She's now recovered for the second time but it's scary to not know what caused it or if it will happen again.

That's so strange! 

My own cat recovered well and never had a relapse, but then she was 12 when it happened, so who can say?

I was fairly sure it was Polio as DS had been immunised a few weeks before and the cat was fascinated with his nappies (Burmese are quite strange at times ;) )   It seemed to run the same course and recovery was the same too.    The other reason I thought it might be that was that she was an indoor cat, so wouldn't have picked up anything off other cats.   Her daughter remained unaffected.

Has your cat been in contact with a Polio-immunised baby, especially the nappy?  (Just a thought ;) )

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/post_polio/detail_post_polio.htm

This is a one year old cat, lives with children but no babies, indoors only. Very weird!

Funny you should say that about the cats, I have a Persian who had a mystery illness.  One day she suddenly got really lethargic, she was sick numerous times bringing up watery flem and kept collapsing unable to walk etc.  She was given an immediate dose of steroids and antibiotics, was given fluid under the skin but didn't improve so was then kept in at the vets, x-rays and all sorts of test plus a 3 day stay at the vets and she was allowed home but with no answer apart from maybe a virus.  It happened twice since about 6 months apart and she was given a steroid shot straight away and she recovered well and it has not happened since.  Very strange indeed so sometimes you just don't get an answer.