I am compiling a waiting list for puppies, hopefully due in late June. (Season late!!!!) Up to now, potential owners happy to wait until pups arrive and four weeks have passed before coming to visit and choose their pup. Have exchanged emails and photographs of mum and dad etc and asked lots of questions, and they have done the same. I have just had another enquiry, by email and expecting a phone call today. the person concerned has asked to come and see my dogs, soon. Now, I can fully understand a potential owner wanting to see the situation here and make sure all is well with my girls etc. Its just that I am scared to death, at this stage to give my address out. Am I being a bit silly here?? I will obviously have to give it out at some point but have never done it, with previous litters, so early in the "relationship" before. Just a general area, type of thing. How can I be sure that these people are not just wanting to find out where there are "my breed" bitches?? (I think I watch too many tv programmes about dog thefts increasing!!!)
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Could you arrange to meet in a mutual location if they just want to see / meet your bitch?

I have always had and in fact encourage visits long before there are any puppies to be a distraction.

In fact I often simply have people visit so they can get to know the breed and decide if it is suitable, whether they re likely to be on my list at all, most othr breeders do the same.

In fact I have one family coming tomorrow who I have put onto another breeders as I don't want to take any more enquiries at present, having more than enough as I don't like disappointing people if the chance of there being enough pups is slim to unlikely.

I was thinking about that. Was wondering if they might think that was a bit suspiscious but I would certainly feel better doing that. I might feel different after I have spoken to the person later today!!

> Could you arrange to meet in a mutual location if they just want to see / meet your bitch?

To be honest such an arrangement would ring alarm bells Long and loud if I was a potential buyer.

Your not being silly at all, these people are strangers, so keep to your usual routine of making them wait until pups are old enough 4 weeks whenever and build a rapport with these people then, if they are not willing to wait & go by you then not much cop as potential pup owners anyhow?

I'd want relationship established long before my pups were that old, in the end you either trust people or you don't.

I'd certainly have no dealings with a breeder who wouldn't be happy for me to visit to meet them before even considering having a puppy from them, seeing where the pups are to be raised, the kind of dogs the breeder has and how they live with them in the normal day to day (not just when pups are on the ground) all would impact on my decision making.

>I'd certainly have no dealings with a breeder who wouldn't be happy for me to visit to meet them before even considering having a puppy from them

Definitely. And as a breeder I want to see how potential owners react to the adult dogs (because that's what the puppy will become very quickly!) without the distraction of the sweet puppies. They might not even make it onto the waiting list if they don't get on well with the dogs.

> I have always had and in fact encourage visits long before there are any puppies to be a distraction

I can understand that fully. I do go through all aspects of owning one of my breed thoroughly with anyone who enquires. Most of my ownders, up to now, have already owned one or have a relative or friend with one and are prepared for all the questions I ask. I suppose I have been lucky. I would be interested to know what questions you would ask someone who wants to come in advance of pups being born. I dont mean about the breed, more about their own details? How can you be sure they are who they say they are?

I do agree and I hope that people will want to meet me / my dog lots of times prior to making a final decision on having a pup but it can be difficult to invite people into your home espeicially if you live alone etc?
I only meant a mutual location for the initial introductions etc.

>it can be difficult to invite people into your home espeicially if you live alone etc?

Invite a friend (big strong man?) to be there at the same time as the visitors come.

i always like to meet new puppy owners before pups arrive ,annieg3 go with your gut feeling if/when you meet these people ,if you dont like them or somthing doesnt feel right dont put them on your list ,when people relax youd be surrprised what comes out!

> (big strong man?)

I wish!!!! Yes I am on my own and that does come into it. My daughter lives around the corner though so I could arrange for her to be here!
I usually end up with a relationship akin to family with my prospective owners. I mither them to death before I entrust one of my little fluffy things into their lives and every single one, thank goodness, is in a lovely loving home. This is just an unusual one for me.  Obviously not for other breeders. As I said in my first post, I can fully understand people wanting to come and see the set up here and meet my doggies but want to know how to go about this, with regard to the security of my dogs.

>My daughter lives around the corner though so I could arrange for her to be here!

Doesn't she have any male friends? Or could you borrow a friend's husband/son just for the visit? Or other friends could pretend to be prospective buyers who happened to be there at the same time ... the options are endless.

I think borrowing somebody to be there whilst the potential buyers come is the best way forward, I can understand not wanting to be alone.  I only ever let people come when I know my husband will be here.  I think any other course of action (not giving address out or meeting somewhere else) would definitely give wrong impression, and as a buyer I would never be happy with this.

> I think any other course of action (not giving address out or meeting somewhere else) would definitely give wrong impression, and as a buyer I would never be happy with this.

Yes, I do agree. If it was the other way around I would wonder why they didnt want me to see their home!! This is only my third litter, and as I said, out of eleven puppies, seven had one of the same breed already (amazing to say they arent that common)  and the other four lived a very long way away so really I relied on, yes, that gut instinct, lots of emails and photographs etc and even google maps to have a sneaky look where they lived!!!. (felt a bit naughty doing that)
Will see how the phone call goes. Yes daughter's partner is a big lad and I have my son who doesnt live too far away. Thanks for taking the trouble to reply.

Up to now, potential owners happy to wait until pups arrive and four weeks have passed before coming to visit and choose their pup

To me, this sounds as though these people are almost 'guaranteed' a puppy.  What happens when they come and for some reason, you either don't like them or find they are not suitable?  This has happened to me - lots of conversations, emails etc but when family came to visit, kids were petrified of dogs!  No way could I let them have a puppy as kids backed onto the sofa even with my old lady trying to say hello!  Family were very upset and angry about not being able to have a puppy as they had been waiting for quite a while for one, because as you say, bitches are usually late when you want a litter. 
Now, if people are interested in a puppy when I'm planning a litter, I offer them the chance to come and meet me and my girls before puppies are on the scene.  If they are not suitable, they are told well in advance and free to look elsewhere.

I am also encouraging people to come and visit before puppies are born, before my bitch is even mated in fact. I won't put them on my confirmed list until I have met them.

I can understand your dilema, being on your own, but others have offered some excellent suggestions there.

I deliberately let my three older dogs 'meet' people as they come in to see how they react, that's the first test.

I am also on my own but would have already had emails, phone calls etc and therefore felt pretty sure already before inviting people to my home.  There is no way that I would let them wait until the pups were 4 weeks old in case I didn't think they (and the rest of the family!) were suitable.

If safety is the big worry (and I can understand that, I always try to avoid having potential buyers come to visit if my husband is not at home) then I can't see it will make much difference WHEN they come.

I would be more concerned about someone bringing infection into my house & stressing out my girl to be honest.  Whilst your breed (if they are what they look like in the photo) is not renowned for being stressy, they are "wary of strangers". 

I'd go with your gut instinct.  There will be other buyers (even though I understand why someone would want to come & visit your dogs, perhaps they should be a bit more forward thinking next time & get to know a breeder & dogs before going on a list?)

If I, as a potential puppy purchaser, was advised I could meet the potential breeder and their dogs but not at the breeders home then I'm afraid I'd think they were a puppy farmer!! - this is the way they operate.

I too am hoping for a litter in June - also a season late, but wont go into that :-(  I have a healthy waiting list.  I have met everyone on my list and they have met me and my dogs, and also my dogs' extended family going back to great-great granny.  There have been many cups of coffee drunk as they have evaluated me and I've evaluated them. I've met any children involved - if a child hasn't been able to come then they will be met before a decision is made as to whether one of my pups will go to that home and all this is just to be put on my waiting list.  Some of these people have asked specifically to meet my dogs to see their work potential/character.  I want homes for at least half a potential litter before I mate my bitch and the only way I can meet that requirement is by meeting the potential owners.  As someone else has said, I too want to see how the people (and children) are with my adult dogs.

I can understand your caution to a point, but I want to meet people in the early stages, I can then be confident I've got good homes lined up, doing the jobs I'd like my dogs to be doing.

> To me, this sounds as though these people are almost 'guaranteed' a puppy

No, definitely not. None of the people who are on my list are aware how many other people are on there or what position they are in on the list. I have stressed that my girl may even miss, so nothing is guaranteed. I have at least two months now to get to know further the people I already have. Two have been passed on by owners of pups from my previous litters. They know how fussy I am and wouldnt let any pup go to someone I wasnt happy with. One other has been passed on by a fellow breeder. People who are known to them so that is promising too. I would have no qualms whatsoever in refusing anybody who came, if I wasnt 100% happy.
Back to the "watching too much tv about dog thefts" Its not so much being worried about people coming along to the house by appointment., more someone finding out my address and breaking in when I am not here. Too vivid an imagination I think and totally over the top but that is a problem I have.

I live on my own and I have to admit for my first meeting with people I take my dogs and meet them at a local water park etc.  especially when I don't really know if it is a serious enquiry or not.

We have always met breeders and their dogs before there are any pups to see. Puppies are a distraction, especially when you're longing for a new hairy friend.
The breeders of all our dogs have also let their packs loose on us to obviously judge our reaction :)

I would be wary if I couldn't meet the breeder and dogs in her home. As I potential buyer you like to meet the breeder, her dogs and get a feel for the situation the pups will be born into. All of our past breeders have wanted to meet us, including the kids, to grill us before the pups are born too.

I remember one, very blunt lady, saying "You can come and visit, but you're only going on the list if I like you." No beating about the bush there! :) I liked her!!

A good alternative to meeting people at home before pups are born is arranging to meet them at a show. It's a first step, in public, and they get to meet your adult dogs only.

I always have potential puppy owners come to my home to meet my bitch, if I don't know them already from the dog world. I prefer it this way e-mails and phone calls only tell you so much, I like to look people in the eye that is when I make my final decisions on who is right and who is wrong for my pups. I always prefer people to meet my girl, (the fully grown adult) if they adore her they are really interested. I like to have my list all but sorted well before my bitch is even in whelp.

I understand your angst, there is no-body more security conscious, and untrusting than I. :-( Believe me, I even scare myself, but we can't live like that all that time. You have to trust to a certain extent. I would wish to meet the bitch and stud before choosing a pup so it is not unreasonable for others to want the same as I would.

I'm sure you are security conscious of your bitch anyway, and always take precautions, lock your doors, do not leave her alone in the garden, you are right not to just dismiss any thoughts of dog theft it should always just be a niggle in the back of your mind. Ask for a landline, make sure you call them back on it too, don't be afraid to tell them that due to dog thefts you need to do this and will need to have proof of their address too if they come, that will scare off anyone dubious as they know you are aware, also the timewasters will shrink away, leaving you with the genuinely interested, (who may or may not meet your vetting list) it's not a nice world and people do understand, if they don't - not to worry, they weren't right for you. :-)

But trust first, unless you have reason not to, IMO it is a good sign that they are wishing to meet your bitch first.

> What happens when they come and for some reason, you either don't like them or find they are not suitable? 

Happened to me!   We had exchanged loads of emails, and progressed to long telephone calls, and everything sounded ideal.

When they took nearly 4 hours to get here, I felt that I had to give them a chance to prove to me that they were worthy of a pup.  After 3 hours I just had to call it a day, otherwise they would have ended up staying the night.

It was a total nightmare, but I had to be true to my pups.  I just said "I am sorry, but I am not happy that a pup would be safe with your children."

In 3 hours, not one of those kids touched a dog, or made a fuss of it - just ran riot, screamed, and generally acted like spoiled brats.  While I felt very sorry for the lady that really wanted a pup, I couldn't, in all conscience, say yes.

I agree with Brainless, having been in the position of buyer a couple of 2 1/2 years ago--sound your prospective owners out and then decide whether you want them round. I had done a fair bit of research on the breed through the breed club, shows and of course our old friend the internet and screwed up my courage to contact a breeder I liked the sound of to see whether she might have a litter at some point--I did say I'd be prepared to wait a couple of years if need be. As it happened one of her bitches was only just in whelp and she invited me to come and meet her and her dogs. It was a 380 mile round trip but I'd have gone twice that without question. We had an hour or so to chat through my experience and expectations as well. I can't tell you how useful that was and it's a life long relationship--I know I can contact her at any time if I have a problem--and we did, because the pup lost interest in food once he wasn't competing with his siblings. We are still in touch and I value every piece of advice she has given me.

The decision to give your time and open your home to a stranger probably hangs on that first phone call or exchange of emails--if you get any sense from them that there might be a problem, don't go through with it, but don't sell them a puppy either. I was surprised that you are letting people choose their own puppy--by all means hear what they have to say on their preferences, but you will know your pups' characters better than they will, so don't be afraid to choose for them and explain why--they don't have to accept your choice, and neither do you have to accept theirs. It must be one of the attractions for people going to puppy farms--they get to choose whatever they want.

I went back to the breeder when the pups were 4 weeks old and we were offered the choice of three dogs. I told her my preference, and she was keeping one of the three dogs herself. When it came down to picking up the puppy at 12 weeks (missing out the Christmas holiday, etc), she apologised, offered me back the deposit (I'd paid £500, my choice) and then asked me if I would consider taking the other pup instead--no obligation to do so, but she felt the one I'd wanted was the better prospect for her. I didn't hesitate to accept and the time since has shown how right we both were. She had time and skill to show her dog and he did really well, getting his JW; I had no experience and my life turned sideways so I had no time to take him to shows. In any event my dog disliked the show ring but is a truly wonderful dog who suits me to the last breath. None of this might have happened had she not agreed to let me visit in the first place.

Good luck whichever way you decide to go :)

All good advice. As mentioned, this is only my third litter so I am relatively new to this and think I have been very lucky not to have had any problems with owners!  Mostly referred through people I trust, although, having said that, I obviously checked them out myself.
Just an update on this particular potential owner. Just had a phone call from her. She sounds lovely and didnt seem to mind me firing questions at her. She lives in London and I am in the North but her family live in Manchester. She is coming up this weekend, with her sister, and will be coming to my house on Saturday. She sounds like she has done her research and actually waited a long time until her circumstances were just right to make the big step of getting a puppy. She works but her husband is home all day. Anyway, that is just from one phone call, so a long way to go yet but I feel fine about her coming.
I really appreciate the comments you have all made. This is such an important thing we do. I want to do the best I can and even at my advanced age, am willing to listen and learn from people vastly more experienced than I. Thanks again.

I too have a litter that will be ready to go to their new family at the end of May, I have exchanged numerous emails and spoken to them on the phone as well as a number of them do live at the other side of the country I would find it nigh on impossible to inspect everyones homes but I do feel that meeting them face to face and going with your gut instinct works for me !!  I also look at how they talk about the puppies I had one lady who was quite off hand with me who had put her name on the waiting list and when I rang her to say the puppies had arrived she said she didnt want IT !!! anymore well even if she did still want IT, she would not be getting IT because you do not refer to the puppy as an IT not likely she clearly did not have a kind nature and dose not deserve a puppy as a new family member!! 

I will allow prospective new families to view the puppies from 5 weeks onwards, and prior to that I do not give out my home address or advertise it just in case, there is also someone at home or around and about at all times for peace of mind.

> I was surprised that you are letting people choose their own puppy--by all means hear what they have to say on their preferences, but you will know your pups' characters better than they will, so don't be afraid to choose for them and explain why-

Its not so much that as if they are looking for a girl or boy or have any colour preference!! My breed come in a multitude of colours so someone wanting a black and white dog  wouldnt be happy if I chose a golden one for them.  I do understand what you are saying though.

>I was surprised that you are letting people choose their own puppy--

I would never allow someone to choose a puppy for me, and I utterly hated it when I had to choose a puppy for someone else. The breeder should certainly know their puppies' characters, but they don't know the potential buyers nearly as well so could get it horribly wrong. Also in my breed no two puppies look the same, and what visually appeals to one person can be distinctly unattractive to another - not a relationship made in heaven!

hi Jeangenie, I guess there are merits and downsides to both choosing for and allowing owners to choose a pup, and a time for each--I was thinking  of the novice owner or someone new to the breed rather than someone who knows exactly what they are looking for and why.

Good luck annieg3, I think people who put so much into their breed deserve huge thanks from people like me who have benefited from their experience and risk, too--you only have to read some of the posts on this site to realise what effort good breeders go through to present you with a puppy that is a fine representative of its breed and the commitment they make for the lifetime of that puppy. I get very fed up with people who admire my dogs, ask about the breed, where they can get one and then say "HOW much!!!!" Haven't had anyone ask if they get a discount for being on benefits though :)

>I was thinking  of the novice owner or someone new to the breed rather than someone who knows exactly what they are looking for and why.

The recommended advice to novice owners is generally to buy the pup that chooses you - the one that's friendliest to you. :-)

yes, I had heard that, but I don't recall ever using it as a guide :)

> The recommended advice to novice owners is generally to buy the pup that chooses you - the one that's friendliest to you. <img alt=":-)" src="/images/default/sml_pos.png" class="sml" />

I've not seen that - modern advice seems to be NOT to choose the one that rushes out first and is all over you, and NOT to pick the one that stays in the corner doing puppy things.... but to go for the median... The one that comes up says hello, is friendly but doesn't monopolise you.

Seems fair to me, although that could be difficult if you are the first to see a litter, and the breeders are novices too with no waiting list. In those cases the breeder will say "Oooh look, it must be fate, that one has chosen you!"

Must be very hard for people NOT to choose the one that spends the most time with them, but instead be persuaded to have the one that strolls up, says hello, has a cuddle & a game, then politely excuses itself to go off & do something else. In that case, I would say breeder-allocation is far preferable!

That's how I ended up with a little git...LOL... he literally could not tear his eyes away from me from the moment we met! but to be fair, maybe it was fate, as apparently he ignored all the later puppy-candidates, and the breeder ended up resigned to the fact he probably was meant to come to me after all. Wouldn't swap him ever, and they do say you invite your teachers into your life when you are ready to be taught.

Just an added thought on the above - how common is it these days that someone could walk into see a litter of pups at 7 weeks old, and be the first to choose or be chosen...? Waiting lists and responsible breeding preclude all that, surely? Mmmm food for thought there then. I'm not certain even rescues with litters operate that way.

>>The recommended advice to novice owners is generally to buy the pup that chooses you - the one that's friendliest to you.
>modern advice seems to be NOT to choose the one that rushes out first and is all over you, and NOT to pick the one that stays in the corner doing puppy things.... but to go for the median... The one that comes up says hello, is friendly but doesn't monopolise you.

These are two different scenarios - again, traditional advice is to leave the over-bold or over-quiet one but go for the happy medium; the one that's bouncing all over you isn't necessarily choosing you, but does that to everyone! So you spend some time with the whole litter, getting a 'feel' for the different personalities, and the right one is likely to come and play, then go off, then come back and play, then go off again, but will keep coming back more frequently than the others.

Of course, if you're looking for a potential show bitch, this particular one is likely to be a mismarked dog! But if you just want a pet for the next 15 years, this is the one for you.

The lady who was the reason I started this post is coming tomorrow. Will update what happens. I have told her that at this point, she is here just to experience a little more of the breed as she has only "met" them during research. She is bringing her 5 year old nephew too, which I think is a really good idea. Seeing how my adult dogs react to a child. Trouble is they have a habit of wanting to lick kid's noses so I will have to be careful there. Feel ok though about two ladies and a child coming together.

Pleased that this post has brought up other "arguments". Thats what its all about. Getting stuff out in the open and discussing it. This is how we learn, if we are willing to, that is!!

>> I would never allow someone to choose a puppy for me,

Sometimes there is no other option :)  The breeder I got my rott from allocated all of the dogs based on temprament and the home set up/needs of the potential buyers.  The only choosing I got to do was of the sex of pup I wanted.  Pups were allocated on the basis of whether there were children in the house (a more laid back pup suited) and if the potential owner had owned the breed before (a more dominant/feisty pup could be allocated) amongst other things.  I am happy I got a dog that suited my ability and needs and as far as I am aware so are the other owners.  The difference with this breed is that they all look quite similar and the visual appeal of any differences is pretty limited.

> how common is it these days that someone could walk into see a litter of pups at 7 weeks old, and be the first to choose or be chosen...?

exactly with waiting lists you may have little or no choice, depending on place on the list or number of pups available of the given sex.

>> I would never allow someone to choose a puppy for me
>Sometimes there is no other option

There are always other litters!

I always chose my own boyfriends too. ;-)

>> There are always other litters!

There are, but not always better choices.  this litter was from an accredited breeder with all health tests done (and more outwith the recommended), low hip scores, DNA tested, parents done well in the show ring, great temprement etc etc.

Or I could have gone to a BYB and picked my pup ;)

FWIW, I always pick my own boyfriends too - not that it has done me any good lol, perhaps I should be getting them picked for me too ;)

    >> I would never allow someone to choose a puppy for me
    >Sometimes there is no other option

There are always other litters!

Lol, no, there isn't! Not in all breeds. Not in a breed where you get perhaps 3 litters of show line pups a YEAR. :) And some are less than that, you only need to look at registration figures to work it out. Some rarer breeds don't even have one litter born every year.

>Lol, no, there isn't! Not in all breeds.

I'd rather have no pup at all than the 'wrong' one. I spent nearly 2 years viewing litter after litter until I found the pup for me.

I got my first dog in 1981 and had a fair few over the years as I almost always have had more than one. It was not until 2000 that I was allowed to pick a puppy in a litter for the very first time -that was my 14th dog if I've counted correctly. I have never seen a problem with this at all as the breeders always made good choices. I was a bit lost when I had my first litter LOL but asked for help from plenty of people to help me pick. I have always been adviced to at least try to steer puppy buyers in the direction of the right pup for them, and this has always worked out fine. In both my breeds you can have very active, over the top pups and also far more timid ones (in many ways, Malinois and Papillons have the very same temperament -if Papillons were bigger I swear they'd make police dogs!), and it's no good letting somebody who wants to compete in agility have the quiet one, or let the family who wants nothing more than an active pet have the one that would make a good security dog. (Although I do find in Malis  the working people always come prepared and put the pups through all sorts of tests before accepting one, even when there IS no choice as there is just on pup left.)

I'd rather have no pup at all than the 'wrong' one. I spent nearly 2 years viewing litter after litter until I found the pup for me.

I think that's the attitude of somebody with a breed that are 13 to the dozen. :) You could be dogless for a decade if you did that with something rarer.

Trust me, having a dog you didn't choose is like permanently caring for someone else's dog. You're fond of it, and care for it, and make sure it's well looked after, but the bond that makes a special relationship is missing.