Having just moved back to our old area we have found that a new dog is in our neighbourhood.  I have been forewarned about this dog - and I am sorry Rottie owners but it is a Rottie bitch that is dog to dog aggressive.  I knew that it could be a problem because my son warned me that the lad walking it had no control over it and it had jumped up to try to get to my grandson and worried him.  My other friend had said that it had tried to get to her dog through the fence so I had already questioned the owner as to it's nature.  I told the owner that my dog was very nervous and could be reactive - they are both bitches - so he has been careful when spotting me approaching.  However all this time he has walked the dog last thing at night and not met any other dogs - so he lets his dog off the lead.  Tonight we came back late and my husband walked our dog - on lead.  The result was our dog got attacked and my husband shouted to get the Rottie away and back under control.  To be fair the owner came back and knocked on our door to check up on our dog - who was OK.  My husband was very shaken - as I am sure the Rottie owner was - I bet he was really worried that we would take this further. 

I was very reasonable and told him that because we have no garden yet we must walk our dog last thing at night - so I am sure that he will keep his dog on the lead in future.  My husband was all for reporting him to the police but I had to say that as long as this guy keeps his dog under control then there is no more that we can do.  Meg wasn't hurt and we have to keep this in proportion - this does not mean that the dog is aggressive towards people. 

However it is clearly a big powerful dog that is not under control.  It is a dog kept in a pub - the family have a number of young children - and from what I can see it hardly gets any excercise.  It is a real worry.  It is a potential problem from that fact alone - it gets walked a couple of hundred yards 3 X a day from what I see in the few weeks we have been back here.  They can't let it off the lead except in the field behind our house because it will attack other dogs.  I am not happy with it off lead behind our house because eventually my dog will be allowed up to the top of our garden.  It has already tried to get to our neighbour's dog through the fence which is how I knew that it was dog to dog aggressive. 

I am posting this to get opinions to see what other people would have done.  I am quite anxious not to over react - there are many responsible people out there with dogs that are aggressive to other dogs and they have to manage it on a day to day basis.  What would you have said to this man?  Am I being too reasonable?  Yet again I want to protect my own first and foremost.

Any advice and views on this would be appreciated.

i think you have been very reasonable and havent over reacted but i would be suggesting to the owner that at least the dog should be muzzled when he walks it, so at least the potential for damage to either human or animal is reduced .

It sounds like a pretty awful situation for you but I think if its attacked your dog you should report it to the dog warden who should be able to insist on it being muzzled when its being walked.At least that might make them take more care when exercising it.Good luck.

As the person 'seems' reasonable....
Perhaps it might be worth advising them for their dogs own safety to get a baskerville (basket type)
muzzle as they are aware the dog is 'aggressive' with other dogs. Thus the potential for damage to other
dog's is minimised as much as possible.

If you point out that other people won't be as reasonable as you (especially with all the media hype about dogs/certain breeds)
and could go to the Police and advise that  there is a Rottie out of control.
Thus he could have a potential for ending up in court and the dog could get a destruction order.
Do they really want it to go this far...?

Perhaps give them the links to APBT? Suggest that they go to a reputable behviourist.
As all this can help the dog.
If they love the dog they may be willing to put in the hard work/training to minimise the damage done.

It could be lack of socialisation from a puppy that has caused these problems and they haven't taken the
right steps with going to a reputable behaviourist/trainer to sort them properly.

Lack of correct exercise/enough exercise can cause the dog to be frustrated and behaviour can get worse.

If the chap seems reasonable enough point out the concerns you have for him, his family and his dog,
the responsbilities he has as a dog owner and the liabilities he faces if his dog does continue with this
behaviour if he's responsible maybe he'll take action.

Also perhaps give him a breed rescue contact name for your area as he may decide that the dog should be
rehomed as he doesn't have the time for the training etc.
Much better for the Rottie to be rehomed to breed people with the knowledge and experience to minimise the
damage already caused than to be sold on as a 'guard dog'... 
However it is important that he is honest with them and tells them it has dog to dog aggression issues.

Hope your bitch is ok.

If this rottie only has aggression issues with other dogs-not people then the police won't be the slightest bit interested-its only if it starts attacking people they will get involved.But you did say it tried to get to your grandson-was it being aggressive then?

> the dog warden who should be able to insist on it being muzzled when its being walked.

Spoke to our local dog warden this week regarding a dog that has attacked many dogs localy, I had been told that when it was out and about it had to be muzzled and this hasn't happened.  He said that an owner could only be enforced to muzzel their dog if the courts had been involved? Police had been involved last year - notice in local paper - I'm told 12 people came forward, but in a letter to friends the police said they could not take any action as not 'enough' response

> I told the owner that my dog was very nervous and could be reactive - they are both bitches
> the owner came back and knocked on our door to check up on our dog - who was OK

What actually happened? I'm terrible for usually jumping in on posts and assuming things, so before I do that again, how did things occur? Did the Rottie immediately attack your dog, or was she watching and reacting to your dogs 'reactive ness'? What actually happened in the attack? Was it all snaps & noise that never made contact for example?
Did your dog get injured?

> It has already tried to get to our neighbour's dog through the fence which is how I knew that it was dog to dog aggressive.

I had to put up a 6 ft fence to stop mine & my neighbours dogs trying to fight through our fence. Aside from being teritorial when it came to protecting the fence, my dog was dog-friednly and would happily play with other dogs and allow then inot our home & garden - even while we were having a BBQ (and he was a 'foodie', so that's quite something) :)
I don't think the fact the Rottie has a go at other dogs through it's fence is major coause for concern (would be best for the owner to adress this problem though) or suggests anything other than the fact it is protecting it's teritory from other dogs (even dog-friendly dogs will do this).

>I knew that it could be a problem because my son warned me that the lad walking it had no control over it and it had jumped up to try to get to my grandson and worried him.

Was the Rottie just jumping up to see, or was it actuall being agressive? If it was being agressive, then this is the sort of thing that needs reporting.
However, unfortuantely, when it comes to large dogs, many people mis-read thier body language and think the worst of them. I've had a child say my dog tried to bite her, when all he did was reach his head forward to sniff her. He also would jump up to see a child that was being held when younger, out of curiosity, not agression (but I have always been very vigilant and not allowed this to happen, as despite it being innocent, it really is not the sort of thing we can allow our large dogs to do).

> It is a dog kept in a pub - the family have a number of young children - and from what I can see it hardly gets any excercise.  It is a real worry.  It is a potential problem from that fact alone - it gets walked a couple of hundred yards 3 X a day from what I see in the few weeks we have been back here.

I have a huge dog with children, my dog gets 1 x short-medium walk per day, when he was younger he only got a tiny walk once per day. This does not mean there is any cause for concern over his behaviour.

How old is the Rottie? Does she have any medical issues? The answers to these questions may shed more light on her apparent lack of excercise. :)

I can see why it would be a worry having your dog attacked by a Rottie, but without any more info, it's very hard to tell wheather the dog is cause for concern, or if this was just an unfortunate incident of dogs being dogs. I think it's fantastic that you are determinded not to over-react. Maybe a word with the owner to suggest he adresses the fence-fighting issue (to help everybody feel more at ease) and have a chat with him about his dog and suggest she is kept on a lead or long-line if this is the way she usually behaves with other dogs.

My dog is fine thanks - she is a dog that has been jumped on by other dogs on a number of occasions - making her more defensive so she acts all big and warns off dogs that she thinks may be a threat - hence she gets attacked and put down herself - she never comes out on top.  However in this instance the dog was on top of her before Meg knew anything about it - it seems the guy had just released his bitch from the lead without realising there was anyone out there in the dark.  The dog just bolted straight at Meg - he panicked and shouted for his dog - my OH shouted come and get your dog off - the owner hauled his bitch off ours with difficulty.  As I told my husband many dogs attack and it looks and sounds dreadful but at the end of the day there often isn't a mark - except mentally I suppose. 
However 1. the son (about 14) walks the dog and is less careful with off lead walking - how would he have dealt with the situation.
             2. They use an extendable lead - I don't trust those at all.
             3. I have doubts whether a behaviourist/ trainer of the right sort would be affordable. 

I do need to go and have a chat with him to find out more - I will look for some info to give him and to put the suggestion that they keep it muzzled.  At least that would put my husband's mind at rest.  He hardly slept last night worrying about it.  I reminded him that there are a couple of dogs around here that will attack Meg - the boxer that attacked her when she was young is still out there - and still attacks other dogs.  Another aggressive boxer is walked by it's owner who carries a big stick to hit other dogs with apparently - yet to meet that one.  This is a fact of dog ownership - one has to think one step ahead all the time. 

We posted at the same time~!  As I said the attack came suddenly - Meg hadn't reacted at all because neither my husband or dog had realised that there was anyone there - the guy must have just that minute let the dog off the lead and it belted straight at Meg in the dark.  The owner had already told me that his dog wasn't 'good' with other dogs.  I told him that I had a bitch too that could be reactive on the lead when she is fearful of an approaching dog.  I thought that I had made sure that he kept his dog at a distance from mine.  As for the through the fence thing with the neighbour - the dog it was trying to get at is a very quiet gentle dog - it would not offer any threat to any dog.  My Meg loves her and they make a fuss of each other when they meet. 
Yes I do need to find out more.  Will have to pop out for a drink!

im glad meg wasnt hurt.ive never been worried about rotties,but jess is,for no other reasonthat theyre big!Ran away home once after a perfectly well behaved one appeared.However,there is a young chap with a mildly agressive (or is that a contradiction in terms?)rottie,a bad attitude and not much control,who walks round here,we all try to avoid him as im trying to de sensitise jess to her fear,by letting her see theres nothing to fear.I wish i could take a leaf out of your book,and try talking to him.Id suggest a muzzle,thenHE could relax,and have no need to be so nasty to people,two problems solved!if that makes sense!but ive not got the courage!sorry,not much help,i know.good luck!

> it seems the guy had just released his bitch from the lead without realising there was anyone out there in the dark.  The dog just bolted straight at Meg - he panicked and shouted for his dog -

I don't think any dog that behvaes like this should be allowed off-lead un-muzzled.

> My dog is fine thanks - she is a dog that has been jumped on by other dogs on a number of occasions - making her more defensive so she acts all big and warns off dogs that she thinks may be a threat - hence she gets attacked and put down herself - she never comes out on top

Poor Meg :(

> the son (about 14) walks the dog and is less careful with off lead walking - how would he have dealt with the situation.

I think it's disgusting allowing a monor to walk any large/powefull dog, for many reasons, the biggest being exactly what you have said - how would they deal with a problem?

> They use an extendable lead - I don't trust those at all.

Tottaly agree with you. My dog stays on a long-line (he's friendly, but his size worries people :( ), but I would not trust an extendable lead atall.

> I do need to go and have a chat with him to find out more - I will look for some info to give him and to put the suggestion that they keep it muzzled.

Hopefully, you being so reasonable should make him more inclinded to be co-operative. :)

I hoe Meg isn't massively traumatised by the incident, poor thing.

> massively traumatised by the incident  -

I will find that out when we walk tonight.  She is already nervous of walking towards the main road after dark - loud car noises - the youngsters that rev the engines up etc, get her worried. 

We haven't seen anyone walking the dog this morning - I wonder what the history of this dog is.  They are very aware of their business - they are already getting alot of grief from a neighbour over the noise from the pub.  They really don't want to be harangued because of their dog.  They haven't been here long and they seem a decent couple - in a very difficult business today.  I think walking a dog like that with a muzzle just says dangerous dog - not a good advert for the business.

If they muzzle the dog it will say 'responsible dog owner' to most people. It'll be a worse advert if their dog does some serious damage without one and the dog could end up being PTS.

They also need to consider any legal implications of a minor (if thats what the boy is) walking the dog.

> 1. the son (about 14) walks the dog and is less careful with off lead walking - how would he have dealt with the situation.

I use a headcollar with my rott and a 14 year old could hold him easily when he has the headcollar on.  Perhaps that could be a suggestion to the man to keep things on good terms.  Taking advice from people on here I got a dogmatic headcollar and it is great

>              2. They use an extendable lead - I don't trust those at all.

I use an extending lead with my rott rather than let him off the lead if there are lots of dogs around as he can be quite reactive when dogs approach.  He gives out mixed messages of barking and lunging but within seconds will be whining and wagging his tail.  Like your dog I find that he tries to warn dogs off if they don't approach in a way he feels comfortable with.

>              3. I have doubts whether a behaviourist/ trainer of the right sort would be affordable.

It would be worth looking at what is available locally and the costs before raising it with the man.  If the costs are not too excessive then he won't be able to discount it before finding out more.

> available locally

There is one that the vet will recommend - not exactly local and you are talking £100 at least for one visit with follow up report.  That was for me trying to get some help for her fear of fireworks - goodness knows what dog to dog aggression would need.

Haven't  had time to pay a visit and have a chat yet - haven't seen anyone walking the dog today - they must be walking the dog somewhere else.  The door of the pub was open today - I do wonder how they keep the dog shut in when they have children, friends and staff walking back and forwards from the private areas.  It has happened to me once before (some 10 years ago) that one of the local pubs kept a GSD that used to be out on a small roof terrace barking and growling everytime a dog walked past.  It got out through the front door when the cleaning staff left it open one day.  It headed straight for my dog (then a male setter) and attacked it with cars dodging all around us - due to lack of pavement.  The cleaner came to my rescue eventually and my dog - who did have puncture wounds then got clear.  The owner of that dog gave my OH a right ear-full when he phoned to tell him what had happened so we called the police.  That guy didn't last long in that pub I am glad to say. 

Updating on my problem dog.  We have seen very little but have heard a few things since.  The postman was attacked by it when he went in with the post - it grabbed him by the sleeve thankfully.  It has also been seen chasing cars down the road outside the pub - proof that it does escape - my worst fear.  It lunged at our car the other day as we passed it but it was held by a young man. 
Today we were working in our garden when the young lad tried to walk past in the field with the dog - on the lead right close to our fence.  I shouted at him to get his dog away from our fence - we have only just planted the hedge and it will be a while until the plants grow enough to make any barrier.  He couldn't control the dog - it was too strong for him.  He eventually managed to drag it away as it tried to get through the fence to Meg.  I really will have to go and speak to the owner now.  The lad didn't know our dog was out in the garden - but then he should have been prepared. 

Oh and what are the legal implications of a minor walking the dog please?

> Oh and what are the legal implications of a minor walking the dog please?

None at all, there is no legal minimum age for walking a dog. Though I would guess the parents would be deemed responsible. One of my pet hates is seeing children or teenagers round here with dogs they cannot control, would be unable to control in a situation, or deliberately do idiotic things with the dogs they're in charge of.

Have you thought of contacting your dog warden with your concerns? If you have a good local dog warden they can visit and advise the owners, without necessarily saying who has reported them, thus avoiding confrontation. They have some power courtesy of the council, and liaise with the police/RSPCA too, so if you made a report of all this, if something serious did happen in the future it would already be on record. Dog Wardens can initiate action if their advice or cautions are not followed. You never know, there may already be black marks against this owner & their dog.
I am sure the DW will want to be made aware that it sometimes escapes: it can be handed into the council pound as a stray if it does, and the owners would have to pay a substantial release fee plus daily kennelling. If they can't afford a trainer/behaviourist then they would not be able to afford the release fee either!

Although you are worried about this dog shouting at the young lad is not the best way to go,could have got the boy worked up and the dog even more worked up.
Hope someone can resolve your worries though.

> shouting at the young lad

Okay take your point - however I was thinking of the safety of my dog and to walk up to the top of the garden and speak to him quietly wasn't going to be an option with my dog in between - shouting was all I could do in the situation. In fact my dog stayed away from the fence until I walked closer to speak to the boy.  I would have been better staying back until he had gone.  I am quite sure that the boy was unnerved by the situation - everytime he walks the dog he has to take precautions not to pass any other dog - because he can't walk past any dog without being pulled by his. 

From what I have read here, I can't see that this bitch has actually caused any harm, she's a big dog which is frightening and I guess I would not like any dog trying to jump up at my child/grandchild either, you say it worried your grandson yes, it would, but was the dog just being over friendly, and not under control of the owner?

I also don't get how if this bitch is dog aggressive why your dog is not very seriously injured, a Rotti meaning buisness would have  left your bitch covered in blood. The bitch may well have aggression problems possibly fear aggression from her being previously attacked in which case she may well come across with a lot of bravado, noise and teeth. IME bitches don't generally attack unless provoked males are a different kettle of fish.

I agree that the dog should always be on lead, perhaps a long line would be a good option here to suggest, the owner seems to be trying to accomodate he is only using the field late at night. A big dog which shows aggression to other dogs whether it follows through or not should not be walking around off lead anywhere. I agree I wouldn't wish to meet her with my bitch either, so wouldn't expect you to just shrug it off, it would be very frightening.

But apart from her frightening people and other dogs due to her breed, I can't see that she has done anything worth reporting as of yet, no-one has been hurt in any way. I would give the owner one last chance and hope he is learning from his mistakes, I think you are being very sensible about it. :-)

Hope your hubby has got over the shock, not limiting how scary it would have been and of course your dog, but I would let it be for now.

Just caught your post at 15.30, contact the dog warden, definitely would be reporting it now, the dog is very reactive, postman, cars and dogs, it's a matter of time before she hurts someone whether intentionally or not. I agree with what you were saying earlier she is probably looking for her own entertainment due to not be exercised or stimulated enough.

They need some tough penalities to control her better.

Carrington must admit I thought the same as you on previous posts that it seemed that this was more a large dog that the owners may not be able to fully handle rather than a nasty dog.  This may actually still be the case but this dog sounds like it is in totally the wrong hands rather than an out and out aggressive dog, but sadly in the wrong hands it could turn into an aggressive one.

Certainly that is what I keep telling myself - but it doesn't stop the heart from beating fast as I leave my front door and check up and down the road to make sure the coast is clear.  I think it must be worse for them because they live on the main road and to walk this way is to meet other dog walkers. The main local walk goes right past my door.  That lad just can't cope with the dog and I don't think the father can either.  I haven't seen enough of it to draw any proper conclusions but that means that the dog isn't seeing much fresh air either unless they put it into the car and drive to somewhere they can walk it.  It is entirely wrong that they keep a large dog like this cooped up in what is basically a flat above the pub. There is no garden - the front door opens straight out onto the road - just a very narrow pavement.  They have completely the wrong animal for their lifestyle. 

Does your local council have a dog warden? I live in Southend Essex and we have one and bye laws regarding minors walking dogs. Phone your council and ask if they have a dog warden - ours is wonderful and spoke with an owner of a nuisance dog for me, also gave them a copy of the dangerous dogs act and the councils bye laws. Have not seen the dog with kids since!
Worth a call - good luck!

> it seemed that this was more a large dog that the owners may not be able to fully handle rather than a nasty dog.  This may actually still be the case but this dog sounds like it is in totally the wrong hands rather than an out and out aggressive dog, but sadly in the wrong hands it could turn into an aggressive one.

Defiantely agree with you.
Buster is a friendly lump, but if I had not put in so much work with him he would be lunging at everything (trying to say hello) and dragging me all over the place, in faact he would be a complete liability despite friednly intentions.

I agree these are the wrong owners or are in need of some serios guidance and need it pointed out to them that you simply can't get away with a large dog lunging at things - even if it is friendly.
Poor dog needs some work put in & lots of common sense behind it.

I'd report it to the dog warden.

The lad walked past our house with the dog on the extended lead walking out in front.  5 minutes later he was back - he had only walked to the end of our lane - 10 minutes walk at 6.30 tonight.  I do really hope they took it somewhere for a good run earlier today.  However everyone seems to agree that not only is the dog a nuisance but that the pub is not doing very well and that they can't be here much longer at this rate.  Can't say I really feel like going there for a drink after this anyway - not that I enjoy going to the pub these days anyway.