Hello everyone

I got the email below today, so if you have any information you can pass on, please contact: shananro@btinternet.com
 
Message follows:

I have been asked by one of the national newspapers about Autism in Canines, so what I am after is, if you know of anyone who in the last two years has had their dog boostered, or a puppy that has had its first puppy shots that the dog...:-

--Refuses eye contact
--Incredibly bad behaviour
--Pulls on a lead like an express train
--Behaviour and or mannerism changed since the vaccine
--Aggression
--Nervous/fearful
--Short attention span

Dog must be alive and live in the UK.
Folks can you please cross post this far and wide and any infomation please email shananro@btinternet .com
Thankyou all in advance
Linda ShananRo Bull Terriers

Hello
This has to be some sort of chain letter hoax. Which newspaper is asking for this?

> This has to be some sort of chain letter hoax. Which newspaper is asking for this?

I would also like to know which paper, but it may not be a hoax. Autism (or something very similar) does occur in dogs occasionally. I would welcome any new research into this but I do feel would be best tackled by behaviourists and University researchers rather than a newspaper.

I think this list must cover every dog in the UK.. and its something that I would never give any information to the press,  can you imagine how this information could be used and abused...

Autism can occur in canines, also a form of ADHD, it's diagnosed as Hyperkenisis... and is very very rare... I lived with a dog diagnosed with this .. my wonderful Spawn of Satan (AKA Ollie)  

If you do have problems such as the above, please do NOT go to the press, ... would you do it if it were your child?

Seeing that 'refusing eye contact' is reputedly a Good Thing because a direct stare is a challenge to a canine, and a dog which regularly outstares you is potentially a problem, I'm not sure they know where they're coming from, and any information will be totally misinterpreted. The rest could apply to every dog (and human!) at various times over the past two years.

Half of the sypmtoms listed there are not even close to real autistic tendencies what about ritualistic behaviour? Fear of change, inabiltity to cope in new situations? To me this sounds like a load of rot and is being persued by someone with no knowledge of autism in dogs or people.

Sounds as though some layman is trying to start up another witchhunt by scaring dog owners.

Yes, I agree

Refuses eye contact
--Incredibly bad behaviour
--Pulls on a lead like an express train
--Behaviour and or mannerism changed since the vaccine
--Aggression
--Nervous/fearful
--Short attention span

Most puppies and adolescents go through some form of the above, some through all of them :-D Asking the GP to diagnose their dogs behaviour is very dangerous, look how many thought their dogs to have rage syndrome when it was nothing other than a boisterous pup. Surveys like this are extremely misleading they will be saying that 40% of the dog world is autistic due to people saying their dog shows signs of the above.

I agree that no-one should reply to this survey, it will be wrong and misleading lets leave diagnoses to our vets and qualified behaviourists only.

What next! ***rolleyes***

i personnally wudnt reply and i live wiv my son who was diagnosed 18 mths ago and he has brilliant eye contact n very loving wiv cuddles how can they do it as there is so many different types of autism i agree wiv other posts y to a newspaper

WOW that's what it is with my dogs, they all have varying autism!!

Mine too! I wondered why Treacle pulled all the time - there was me putting it down to my bad training too :-D :-D

I don't know who is behind this but they are obviously biased - the questions are aimed at owners of puppies who will inevitably encounter any and probalbly all of these, especially after vaccine as that is age related -  as is puppy behaviour. 
If this were an authentic research project it would have check questions to ensure a true response eg When did this behaviour start?  Have you had your puppy vaccinated, if so have there been any changes? Thus giving a chance for owners not seeing any changes to respond as well those that haven't.  If the only respondents are those who can see a negative change in behaviour it would be easy to suggest that boosters do effect in this way. There needs to be a 'control' ie comparison of un-vaccinated puppies' behaviours at similar ages.
It'd be like surveying cats' eating preferences; only testing those with a particular preference [8 out of ten cats surveyed] if these ten cats only usually eat that particular food then they're bound to prefer it - unless owners feed their cats what they don't like. 
Not a scientific or thought through survey IMHO, and, much worse, one that could do harm if its results were published.

Is a dallie who panics if things are moved, lunch is late, Mum sits on the wrong chair,Dad at home on a Monday morning, wrong cat gets fed first, showing signs of autism or normal dallie behaviour !!

BTW I am not jesting at the condition my friends son has autism a GSOH just helps!

I have a dal who has zero sense of humour, and simply can't grasp the concept of 'play'. He takes Life terribly seriously, and we've often wondered if he has a form of autism. But he doesn't pull on the lead, makes eye contact, is pretty well-behaved, is somewhat timid (but was even before his very first puppy vax!) and has a longer attention span than many other dals I've known, who are renowned for their 'butterfly minds'.

This is an incredibly amateur pseudo-science poll and should be treated as such. It has potential for doing great harm because of the basic minunderstandings at the outset.

> I have a dal who has zero sense of humour, and simply can't grasp the concept of 'play'. He takes Life terribly seriously

Sounds like my sister's Springer.He never plays , he always just watches... he is so affectionate, and laid back,a very well mannered and absolutley beautiful boy..

I have a son with Autism and have always felt that many of us have an underlying tendency towards the condition.... how many of us like change, things not being where we thought they were etc etc...

I'm pretty sure that there are lots of similar tendencies in dogs too, but given a list of factors, we can always match something even if its a slightly round peg in a slightly square hole.... there are a number of dogs who have without a doubt got special needs though.

Not sure about the links to vaccinations - been there and done that with my son! 

It's important to beware of the 'ice cream syndrome'; seaside accidents increase at the same time that ice cream sales increase. One could say that ice cream was the cause, disregarding the fact that they both occur during the hotter summer months - the statistics have no relationship to each other! Likewise the vaccination link in this 'survey' to suggest that being nervous or pulling hard on the lead is a sign of vaccine damage is ridiculous!

There needs to be a 'control' ie comparison of un-vaccinated puppies' behaviours at similar ages.

I'm actually very surprised that that question was even on this farcical questionaire as with regards to autism in humans it was only ever the MMR vaccine not any of the others which we have that was said to be the possible cause, well pups don't have an MMR vaccine, so why the reference? Which part of a vaccine are they indicating could cause autism in a pup?

And at the end of the day even if a certain part of a vaccine were said to cause autism in dogs as with humans after millions of pounds spent there still was never enough proof and after years of tooing and throwing it never came to anything and was declared safe by the government. 

Why even start such a waste of time and energy and money on looking at dogs when we had the best of the best on both sides for the human condition in trying to work out the cause and still got nowhere.

Somebody must have a lot of money to burn is all I can say.

Its not that we have a tendancy to it as we all have our little quirks but that most with ASD happen to have a great deal of the traits, but after watching my daughter grow up with ASD i can definatly say no 2 autstic kids tick the same boxes and i cant see how them few questions could give and accurate guiide on dogs wityh it.

I'v been saying this since i become a bull terrier owner nearly 5 years ago,
I have a 12 year old Autistic son he was diagnosed 11/9/2001 , aged just 3 years old,

so iv had a long time to deal with all his issues and had great surport to from the sure start team in the begining with dealing with it all,

so when we got our Ellie our first bully terrier i started noticing how things id gone thu with my son were the same as the how the dog would behave ,

i cant explain it all in writing it out but i have been saying it for years,

Having a bull terrier is like having another autistic child,
and having my second bully whos now coming up for 2 yrs old just made me feel even stronger that my bullys are autistic ,

Autisim is such a broad area my son is said to be high functioning but on the lower end of the spectrum,
where as i believe my younger bully is at the slightly higher end of it lol,

i dont think its got anything to do with any jabs the bullies had but just that their bullys who act like autistic kids at times, :-D

hello all respondents out there...

I may have missed something, but I didn't see this in any newspaper, though it could have come from one. I got it via our breed club (not bull terriers). It could just as easily be a student and a research project, and while I completely agree that the research concept could be substantially improved...why are we talking amongst ourselves instead of giving feedback to the person seeking responses???

chelzeagirl, I have a great book about how people with autism have much in common with animals in terms of thinking patterns and communication.  It really is a fascinating book and well worth a read.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Animals-Translation-Mysteries-Autism-Behavior/dp/0156031442/ref=ed_oe_p

> Sounds as though some layman is trying to start up another witchhunt by scaring dog owners.

Exactly . 

It could just as easily be a student and a research project, why are we talking amongst ourselves

But, we don't know who it is and most of us are far to switched on to just answer a random e-mail, without knowing who or what we are talking to. Sorry! :-)

I completely agree that the research concept could be substantially improved...

It couldn't be improved, how could it be improved? Autism is too wide a spectrum to ever be deduced from a few questions, no matter how you word them. It's a complete waste of time and would be very misleading.

I think the concept that cheekychow has posted is far more interesting in how some forms of autism can sometimes relate to how animals behave (naturally) that would be a thesis worth writing if this were a student rather than trying to say that dogs have autism. :-)

> I think the concept that cheekychow has posted is far more interesting in how some forms of autism can sometimes relate to how animals behave (naturally) that would be a thesis worth writing if this were a student rather than trying to say that dogs have autism. :-)

I agree..

It's an American website. The website is aimed at dog owners who have lost dogs and who suspect vaccinations are to blame. I guess that they are trying to use (the since rubbished research) that links the MMR vaccination and autism in children in this country.

Dogsadversereactons