Does anyone have any experience with OCD in a young dog.  My youngest dog has been lame on her front right for 6 weeks now, some days worse than others.  She has had a course of inj weekly for one month, my vet didnt want to rush in and xray at first.  She is a little better but has been refered to a specialist next week for xrays etc.  I think its pano, she has been unsound on her back legs aswell then fine the next day. (Seems similar to when my 1st GSD had pano at 6 months).  My vet thinks its pano but wants to be sure.  The last few days she seems better but still not 100% sound.  She is been on miminal exercise since we had her at 8 wks and thankfully is a calm puppy and doesnt bomb around even when she plays with my other two dogs its never manic. 
Does OCD come and go? I know that pano can be different daily and then it goes away with rest and painkillers when they reach adulthood and isnt particularly anything to worry about. OCD does worry me tho.

any advise would be appreciated. :-)

If the current mangement would be the same (reduced exercise and rest) for both then I would not see the rush to x-ray, as surely with the dog still growing the situation if it is OCD could not be corrected/properly diagnosed yet.

Why does a ortho specialist want to xray her then? Surely something would show up on xrays (or nothing atal hopefully)  pano would show according to this vet. My vet has told me that this vet is brilliant and will be able to get an idea of whats going on.
My original question is really about ocd and pano and does ocd come and go. I know I can wait until tues but wondered if anyone had ever been in a similar situation.

my friends young dog was diagnosed with Elbow dysplacia as a youngster (this is the same as OCD isnt it?)  her elbows had been scored 00 , her limping was very on/off and now at the age of 4ish  she doesnt limp at all ......... so then it makes you wonder if it really was elbow dysplacia or something entirely different !

I am sure they will be able to see something and you will pay accordingly, but will this enable them to do anything about it as yet?

If not why spend the money when you would still be doing what your are now was my point, because as I understand it if it is pano it will self resolve with maturity, an if OCD any other treatment would have to wait until maturity nd further x-rays???

Obviously if x-raying now is more than just wanting to know and will aid in current treatment options, then of course it needs to be done, but otherwise I would not want my pup under anaesthetic for no benefit to him.

> my friends young dog was diagnosed with Elbow dysplacia as a youngster (this is the same as OCD isnt it?)  her elbows had been scored 00 ,

Well obviously if she later had a score of 0/0 perfect, it was not OCD and she was misdiagnosed, as OCD is one of the problems that come under the heading of Elbow dysplasia..

I am hoping for her to be done under sedation, hopefully this will be done.  I guess 'I'really want to know, it could actually be something else completely??.  

>Well obviously if she later had a score of 0/0 perfect, it was not OCD and she was misdiagnosed, as OCD is one of the problems that come under the heading of Elbow dysplasia..

she was scored before being diagnosed.

Yes Jake developed OCD at about 8 months resulting in major surgery to scrape the joint (he's a Border Collie) He's soon to be three no problems with his shoulder now but on glucosimine DS two a day, a bit pricey but there you go. OCD did not go away we found somedays he was easier but the underlaying problem meant he limped after any exercise, in  normally very active dog we had to take action.

We trusted our vet (Finn) 100% took his advice and went for it and we are so glad we did, xrays sorted the problem as being OCD.

Best of luck any help pm me.

Jakes op for OCD was done as a youngster at about 8 months old. We had the xray and as it was obvious (we were on site) the op done at the same time.

if OCD any other treatment would have to wait until maturity nd further x-rays???

According to my vet it can be diagnosed and treated now. (any age from 6 months onwards)

Thank Whistler, she seems to be fine then lame then fine then slightly unsound etc etc.  She is on min exercise but can come in after a trot around the garden a little worse but not always, its really intimitent.  Typically has been sound since my vet refered me to the specialist! LOL but we will still keep the appointment just incase it comes back as she has had some days on the trot ok then its back.

The 2 cases of OCD in my dogs (both shoulder) were constant limping. One dog was operated on at 7 months and the vet got a piece of bone out the size of my small fingernail. The other dog wasn't operated on as the vet said it was such a small piece it would ground down so we left it and he became sound. My friend's Leo had pano and it seemed to move around each leg, the dog seemed in much more discomfort than my 2 and he had painkillers until he was a year old then he was fine.

> According to my vet it can be diagnosed and treated now

well then sooner the better.

> she was scored before being diagnosed

So how do they explain that?  I was under the impression it was something that doesn't develop later in life but is there?

Makes a nonsense of the Elbow scheme if the diagnosis is correct?

I have done lot of reading and asking questions around elbow scoring...
I have come across few cases where dog as 0 score but limps and when the elbows are "opened up" they have problems, not everything shows in xrays taken as some parts are "hidden" so the score comes from "secondary findings" that are often related with the three conditions affecting elbows...
There was a big discussion in my breed forum not that long time ago regarding this... and how with elbows the score 0 does not 100% mean dog does not have an issue, just that it did not show in the xray.
They also say many dogs that score high never have any issues, I know a dog that scored 2 at 2 years old and is now 6 years old, she has never limped or had any problems.
Elbow scoring seems little more complicated than for example hips, more room for error...

I was at a vet seminar a few weeks ago and an orthopaedic specialist was a speaker, his veiw was that the elbow scheme was still in its infancy and was not 100% as yet. Many dogs that score 0 on Xray but have clinical symptoms demonstarte elbow problems once examined under GA. He explained that by restricting excerise in young dogs this can mask shoulder pain/lameness, as the dog completes growth they do not show signs of a problem and often on Xray (taken at 12 mths or so) show 0 scores but the problem is still there and can manifest itself clinically later. As a result he was not a great advocate of being overly restrictive with excersie in young dogs as it gives owners/breeders a false picture.

K

I dont know that was our first thought, waste of time scoring but I think it must have been mis-diagnosed, she is sound at the moment and isnt on any treatment.  But to be honest I dont know alot about it.

Kib - thats very interesting, its not the first time I have heard that restrictive exercise is not recommended.

I think the point about exercise should be commonsensical - not necessarily restrictive, but certainly not over-exercising.  That means eing very caeful with how far you go on lead walks and not playing ball etc - a young dog especially won't give up til you do no matter how they feel - the excitement is too much for them to notice.

I haven't had a dog hip scored but had a collie xGSD who my vet said had severe hip dysplasia and athritus [after X rays].  I trust my vets very much.  She ended up on painkillers and other medication  [sorry can't remember the names now it's over 3 years since she passed ]for quite a few years - maybe 5/6.  Both the vet and I believed her ability to move around as she did was due to her being very fit - her well-developed muscles supported her very poor hip joints.  This musculature was built up over time though, and if going for very long walks [hill-walking involving many many miles] I had to be very careful with her and would keep her on a lead so she wouldn't over exert herself.  As time went on the walks had to reduce and I would have to lift her over styles etc.  She was 12 when PTS and had a very good life.

Well, how typical (but pleasing!) that since my appointment has been made with the ortho specialist for this coming Tuesday, my little baby is sound!! I have decided to postpone the appointment for now and see what happens.  I walked her yesterday with the others and let her have a sniff about and a short run in the fields.  Today, fine.  Fingers crossed for her. 
Thanks for all your responses fellow CD members. :-)

> My original question is really about ocd and pano and does ocd come and go

No experience of either of them, but Buster has ED. It first showed as a limp, which gradually got worse over a few days and came & went. Some days it looked like he had problems with all 4 legs, other day it was hard to spot the very slight limp in the front leg. I insited on xrays after a weeks course of metacam and the Ed (UAP) was discovered.

I think it wise ot have xrays, treating the symptoms (limp) is only masking the problem, once the real problem is found the correct treatment of the cause can be implemented.

> Well, how typical (but pleasing!) that since my appointment has been made with the ortho specialist for this coming Tuesday, my little baby is sound!! I have decided to postpone the appointment for now and see what happens

Buster was the same, whenever he was due to see the vet, the limp would go. I was sure the vet thought I was imagining it, as I explained that he could barely get off the floor some days. So I took video footage of him at home & showed it to the vet :)

She is 100% sound today.  Long may it last.  I have the referal with the specialist as an open appointment, if she is lame again I will go and see him, if not I will put it down to growing pains and breath a huge sigh of relief!

Many dogs of reasonable size breeds can exhibit OCD (ie elbow displasia) from about 14 weeeks unfortunately. The lameness can be worse sometimes than others but I think it rarely goes for long. Early diagnosis and (preferably arthroscopy) surgery is the best option as this helps prevent too much arthritic change in the joint. My Golden was operated on at 5 months. I have kept her on glucosamine/chondroitin supplements for life and at almost 7 years she continues to enjoy a normal life with an hour's free run daily. Pano does move from leg to leg and spontaneously goes away, often not until about 18 months. With either condition, the youngster needs to be restricted in exercise for its own good. My girl finally got onto normal exercise at about 18 months but all large breed puppies should be restricted until that age anyway as that is when the growth plates close and damaging the growth plates before they close will bring major problems. SCORING for OCD cannot be done before a year, although Xrays and diagnosis can be done at any age.  Pano also shows up on a good Xray. You do not say how old your puppy is? I would say go for the Xray; you will then know what you are dealing with. Good luck.

PS.   How do I get a small photo on my replies?

You can load a photo on your avatar in the 'options' section.  I agree with all you have said but as she has been sound for 4/5 days now I am going to see what happens and postpone any xrays/referals.  My 1st dog had pano had 5/6 months but the pain was so severe he could hardly walk on his front leg, xray confirmed it was pano.  I will not be breeding from my pup as she is rescue and i have no history/pedigree so scoring is not necessary.  She is 6 months old now and this lameness had been going on for about 6 weeks.  She has been on restricted exercise since we had her, once a week she has an off lead trot around the park for 30 mins tops. This I will continue to do as I did my last two GSD's until 12 months then gradually up it to marathon walks when they are two onwards.

I can understand you not risking X rays especially as you're not breeding.  For me though, I wish I'd known earlier about Inca's hips - the X ray showed very severe damage to both her joints both dysplasia and arthritus, I believe that if I'd known earlier I could have done more for her eg Chondroitin MSM etc before she got to the stage she was at [if that makes sense?]and alleviating her pain and, possibly, slowing down the development of arthritus which would have given her a few more years and less pain.  Inca was never a one to complain and gave her all I feel so guilty now to think that she must have been suffering for a lot longer than I was aware of.

How is she now?

Sound, thank goodness.  Have spoken to the vet and we both agreed to see how things go and postpone the referal for now.  Hopefully she will stay sound. :-)

update: Sorry to say that the last 3 weeks she has been lame on/off again so she is in today for xrays.  i'm picking her up at 5.30 and will be discussing the results with my vet.
Fingers crossed.

Very mild Elbow displasia which may require surgery, specialist being sent xrays to decide what is best.  Decided to have hips and other legs xrayed to check for any problems and thankfully she is ok everywhere else.  It could be worse so I am quite relieved.