Hi all , i am after some more help , this time with visitors coming into my house.

The dogs never used to have such a problem with anybody coming in but it has become increasingly worse over the last few months. This is what happens , i would really appreciate some advice on this.

Doorbell rings - all 4 (shepherds) bark like crazy , my bitch is the loudest and more manic at this point , any 'quiet' commands are ignored by the younger 3.

Dogs are put behind gate whilst i let visitors in, dogs hang over the gate barking like crazy and being quite intimidating.

Visitor comes in , sits down etc , dogs have normally shut up by now!

Dogs are allowed in , Saxon (oldest) just mooches about , Beau not that interested, Nala is not at all comfortable and stares at them constantly , Max (adolescent git) jumps on them so gets removed from the room.

That's pretty much how it goes until visitor prepares to leave , or even get up to go to the toilet , the middle 2 aged 4 &3 go nuts all over again , barking and acting like menaces , looking quite nasty (never done anything ), i put them away behind gate whilst visitor leaves , they hang over the gate and bark again until visitor goes.

Once visitor has gone they look like butter wouldn't melt , i really need to sort this as i have teenage children that obviously want friends to come round.

To sum it up , dogs don't like anybody coming in , going out or moving around the house. We do not have many visitors so i am at a loss as to what to do , i feel quite useless.

Well young thug sounds just like my youngsters would be, so I would have him on lead when you let them into the living room after they quiet down.

The others should be told to lie down if they will obey.

If visitors get up then pre-empt silliness with a down and stay command, so they have alternative behaviour to getting silly again. 

If your control has not advanced with them to that extent yet, then I would calmly lead them out before the visitors do anything that sets them off, and again command a down and stay.

If they have crates then if they are still going potty during visits, and a shut door would only get leaped at then I would crate them out of sight of the visitors until quiet.

I would insist that when the doorbell rings they are quite, and you need to act very calm yourself.

Sometimes it is worth disconnecting the doorbell, if you can easily spot someone at the door or coming up the drive, or asking regular visitors that they ring before they come.  The doorbell can be a trigger for the excitement, I get it when a doorbell like ours sounds on TV.

I do use a water squirter on mine if they do not quiet when I say, but they are not sensitive souls, they just find a jet of water in the face irksome, and prefer to avoid it ;)

As for when you have them in with visitors, any intimidating behaviour then calmly remove them from the room, and they get to watch through the baby gate.

I have five now (half the size of yours, but as similar look to the untrained eye), so I do have them behind the baby gate when I have visitors, but if they are not doggy folk they stay there until the visitors leave, this way they realise that all visitors are not there just to see them, as before it used to get a bit much with them all vying for visitor attention ;)

Oh lastly, until the dogs are calm and you have this cracked, ask visitors to act as if the dogs are not there, ignore them totally and no eye contact.

I had a problem with visitors coming to the door with my last dog (an Irish Setter) for a while. She wasn't aggressive, but used to get over excited and wag her tail so hard she'd make it bleed and spray blood everywhere. She very nearly lost the end of her tail due to this!

I disconnected the doorbell and asked visitors to come in the backdoor,without knocking, I don't know if this is an option for you? I also asked people to ignore her untill she was calm and sitting, then quietly say hello.

I realise your dogs reaction is a different one and GSDs might not appreciate people just walking in, but wondered if something similar to this may help. Perhaps you could give visitors a few treats and get the dogs to earn them with some calm sitting? Maybe try this with a few people who know the dogs well at first.

I have a similar problem with my 3 Ridgebacks but locking them behind a gate makes them worse.  I had to disconnect the door bell and use the knocker which lessens the situation some what. I find that out of the three one sets the other two off, so if she is wearing an anti bark spray collar none of them bark, where if she isn't wearing it they all bark in chorus and also sound and look very menacing.  Once the visitor is in they pace for a while and if any of them bark I banish them to a room on their own where they can't see me, visitor or the other dogs. Once let out they tend to stay quiet.  I sympathise with you, mine are large breed and like you I have children who want to bring friends home.  I spent so much time avoiding having visitors that I could never deal with the problem, even now I only have the confidence with visitors if I know them, if it's a stranger I lock them away. Also as someone said I ask all visitors to completely ignore the dogs and make no eye contact, the dogs seem to settle once they realise the visitor aren't interested.

I have the same problem with my two,they are rescue so we had them since they were about 4, and 6 years on and its still difficult.They just guard so easily until they really know the person.
I made mistakes in the past,I told my boss to just ignore them but my boy was so determind he jumped around me onto the sofa just so he could grab my bosses arm,it was a nightmare(luckily my boss has 3 dogs so he was quite understanding and no real damage but still frightening)
So now if people who they dont know come round they are put straight in the garden,when they shut up and calm down, i let them in but they get ordered straight to thier beds and are only allowed to come out and say hello when I say so,but I still watch them and it may be that gaining control is first, but always keep an eye out.
Ignoring them is good,but a battle of wills.
Mine now have a good routine, they freak at the doorbell but in under 5 seconds now run to the back door.
If this fails(and I dont suggest this, just telling you what works for me) my boy can be very persistant,if the guest moves to go anywhere in the house and he starts barking I wop him over the head with his favourite toy,(a soft one) with a firm no,or back out in the garden.
Its a double edged sword,i do feel very safe if Im in on my own,but I dont want my dogs to behave this way either,its about trying to work around it.
Ash x

That's pretty much how it goes until visitor prepares to leave , or even get up to go to the toilet , the middle 2 aged 4 &3 go nuts all over again , barking and acting like menaces , looking quite nasty (never done anything ), i put them away behind gate whilst visitor leaves , they hang over the gate and bark again until visitor goes.

From what you say barr the teenage thug who sounds like he just wants to say hello - and if that is all it is I wouldn't discourage it too much just rein it in a bit, Have him on a lead if needed and be armed with some goodies and teach him that if he sits to greet people then he gets rewarded by you and gets to say hello and get a fuss from the guests, the rest sound like they are a bit anxious and are just going into go away defensive/guardy mode.

With the others Maybe temporarily ask people to phone ahead while you change the association they have with the door bell or people knocking.  Doing that won't worik as a long term solution as they will of course just start to react the same to whatever cue they learn means that people are coming to the door unless you change how they feel about it.

I would start with just you first with the dogs behind the gate if the gate is near the front door and you ring the bell and then walk straight to them and give them all some high value treat, whether that is a pre stuffed kong or you hand feeding them something high value.  Practise that a couple of times a day for a few days.  Then enlist the help of your children so that the dogs can see it isn't you ringing the bell adn do the same thing,immediately associte it with something high value by giving them something, after the first treat ask them to do something like a sit to just add a bit of control to it.  Then work up to it being the doorbell rings, you reward them nad ask them to do something and then shut the door on them for a minute and then if all is quiet go back in and reward them.  Gradually build up that way and then enlist the help oif some real visitor in the way of a close friend or two that will follow your instructions.

You want to change the dogs perception that when the bell rings that actually good things can happen and change the way they feel about it.  I would bring in one or to dogs at a time until they learn what you want of them and keep them onlead so that you can have a big more control - again have some ghigh value food rewards (ask the visitors not to interact with the dogs as if they are nervous this will just make them react more).

When in the room ask the dogs to do things that they can do easily, like a sit and reward them, if they look towards he visitor but don't react then reward them again.  When you feel things are more under control generally take the dogs over to near the visitor but still in the dogs omfort zone and ask the visitor to just pop a treat at a time on the floor so the dog can start to build up a good association with the visitor.  When the dog is feeling relaxed enough then the visitor ccan start to hand treats to the dog but still ask them not to be making eye contact with the dogs if possible (can be harder to get visitors to comply than the dogs sometimes).

Basically you need to set yourself and the dogs up to succeed. and have things as relaxed as possible.  Obviously when you are working on the door bell association you may have real visitors so make sure the dog are given something to keep them occupied (always best to have soemthing to hand that can take them five minutes or so to work through to give hem time to relax and to keep them busy) and keep them out of view of the visitors so they don't get to practise the menacing looking behaviour which more than likely comes from them being anxious about tyhe visitors and then they all wind each other up. 

The same should apply if you have visitors tha you know won't listen to your intructions or are going to be there for to short a time or for people like serice men etc.

I would also advise caution about using any aversive like spray collars or even any kind of sprays as at least they will likely find them unpleasant and the last things anxious gurady dogs need is to associate visitos with something unpleasant.  If it works it is just supressing the behaviour not the underlying problem and then you still habe dogs that are a bit unsure about visitors they just express it in a less obvious way and the last thing you need with havin gchildren and their friends aorund is to be led into a flase sense of security thinking the are ok when actually they are still worried and then suddenly lunging or even nipping because they are worried but have had the behaviour that warns you of that supressed.  I know it works for some but it doesn't work for all and in some cases can make matters worse.

Have you considered getting some one in who can give you some guidance on all areas - it can be really hard to get advice right over the net without seeing exactly what is going on and one problem can be part of another or can bleed into another.  It might be worth it, just make sure if you do it is someone reward based who uses up to date methods and really knows what they are taking about.  Some insurance companies will pay for behaviourists through the APBC.

Karenclynes - Some great advice here.  For those of us who have few visitors it can be a great problem and getting in a behaviourist isn't always cost effective in htese cases.  Some way[s] to deal with over-excited behaviour for intermittent  situations is really helpful

> Basically you need to set yourself and the dogs up to succeed. and have things as relaxed as possible.

Great points in all your advice - like the comment about setting BOTH people as well as dogs 'to succeed" is really encouraging and especially the advice about being relaxed.  I've finally managed to get my dogs to learn about regular 'visitors' being OK [post/newspaper deliveries etc. By staying calm myself and saying[in very calm voice] 'Thank you - It's only the post etc.. and rewarding when quiet [now just a Thank you' generally- I do allow alert barks and thank them for them.

> You want to change the dogs perception that when the bell rings that actually good things can happen and change the way they feel about it.

> I would also advise caution about using any aversive like spray collars or even any kind of sprays as at least they will likely find them unpleasant and the last things anxious gurady dogs need is to associate visitos with something unpleasant - Agree totally - tried it and DIDN'T get the T-shirt.  Though got to say in the short term water bottle spray did the trick for my [high-tendency to bark] Elkhound and even my neurotic X collie - to the extent that I just say 'bottle' and they know tht I mean their behaviour is unacceptable.  Maybe it's the attitude [calm vs stressed] that counts when using aversives?  Also, if these are used it's really important that the dog/s don't know that a person is directing the spray - it's got to be the behaviour that triggers the spray not the person.