Hello, i am wondering if someone can help ? I am looking into getting my first German Shepard Puppy and have been reading about the breed. I quite like the look of the straight backed but am i correct in saying that for showing the German Shepard should be square backed ? I have three small children and am a little confused as well, do these different dogs have different temperaments ? If so could someone give me an idea of which one would be better for my family. My children are 7, 4 and 2 years.
Many thanks sam
I look forward to hearing from somebody.

your best bet would be to ask annastasia on here, she's the first GSD person that springs to mind... white lilly is too, i think, there are a few, but im dreadful at remembering names lol

hi sam
there are two types of GSD the english (straight back) and the european ( slightly curved) both types are shown I have english type and find they are excellent with children and other animals e.g horses, cattle, chickens, ducks e.t.c. But it is a matter of choice what type you like.

claire

I know nothing about GSD but I would think there are more than 2 types around? Isn't there working type too?

you are right but they are straight backed as well

There are also middle of the road types that have a decent length of leg, shorter more correct back and without the roached top-line :)

Your main criteria needs to be to check that the parents are Hip Sores with Good results (certainly below 20 in total).  the male should be Hemophilia A tested clear.

The breeder should have some deep involvement in the breed either showing or working, beyond just producing puppies.

After that you should have a shortlist of reputable breeders.  then the style of dogs is up to you.  If you see the mother and other relatives and photos of Dad you should have a rough idea of the type likely to be produced.

It goes without saying that any breeding stock should e of sound temperament, bearing in mind that the breed is a natural guard.  Avoid any obviously nervous or aggressive traits.  This is where meeting various family members of the pups is important as character is inherited to a large extent.

I would contact your nearest German Shepherd Breed Club for a list of breeders, as well as for breeders on this site, as the breeders credentials are checked to some degree.

It is the best idea to visit breeders who do not have puppies for sale at the moment, or do not see the pups (no-one can think logically faced with a cuddly pup) until you have checked everything else out about the adults first, and of course met the breeders criteria for being considered for a puppy.

> there are two types of GSD the english (straight back) and the european ( slightly curved) both types

there are two extremes of type you mean ;)

In your position I would choose the best temperament first and foremost.

How your dog looks should be a secondary consideration when you have 3 small children IMO.

yes i did mean that but didn't want to get into the politics of it all

Yep Brainless knows what she is talking about. One other point (political I know + I will duck) Do you prefer long hair or short haired or no preference ? There is no differenc except for the hair lenght. With young children temperment for me is paramount both with humans and other dogs
GSD can be hard work but a fantastic breed buit then I am biased lol

hiya thanks for your reply. my first concern is my children but some of the things i have been reading makes the working lines and the breeding lines sound like they have different temparments i wanted to make sure i picked the right one for them. thats when i thought it would be either the straight backed or the curved backed for the best temparment not for the looks. my brain is a bit frazzled already and i want to make sure i am understanding things properly.

sam

Ask for health clearances ( appropriate to GSDs) for both parents.

Meet the mother, handle her and any other family members.

Dont take the kids until you are sure the temperament is great...if not, dont take any excuse as to why any of the dogs temperament is not ideal.
Some excuses:
"Mother is being protective".....rubbish if you are only seeing the litter at the right time...ie pups at least 4-5 weeks.
" Sorry the Mother is not here/out for a walk/at my aunties for the day/........ walk away....really dodgey pups probably came in a van from Southern Ireland!
" Mother/father are just excellent guard dogs"...... Rubbish..... a good GSD is perfectly able to differentiate between friend and foe.

Only take your kids after you've done the groundwork or you will take anything home and regret it for a long time.

It doesnt matter what the dog looks like or whether its lines are breeding or working (but you have to breed workers to get more) maybe you mean pet vs show as GSD that are worked are only police dogs really. Well in todays uk they are???

Like others have said you can judge temperament from parents. If your worried about temp are you sure a large breed is right for you and your young family? Puppies are puppies and play bite, rough play. 2 year olds face is just the right height, if you not experienced with dogs (i dont just mean you have had dogs in your family and understand they need to be walked, fed, vet treatment when needed etc) I mean used to how to train pups not to bite, not to play rough with young children and how to bring them up in the correct manner. Your GSD pup will quickly become a large boisterious dog, and if your not quick to nip the behaviour in the bud he could be twice thesize and twice as bositerious.

If you were looking to get a puppy from me i would have to say no.

Dont get a Banana back what ever you do x

Do think carefully about having any dog given the ages of your children. Of course having kids and children can and does work but Louise brings some good points. No matter how good a dogs temperment with little ones any dog can be difficult. I remember when my sister had her gsd my niece was only 2 , fantastic dog lovely temperment but you still had to go through the "mouthing " and other puppy stages and niece couldn't understand why she was being followed around or maybe having her skirt tugged it was very hard work and required eyes and ears around all the time. You also need time to train your pup both around the house and out with and without the children It will be abit like having another child around that doesn't speak your language and needs socialising. Hope this doesn't sound patronising it isn' meant to be, I know I was pleased that my dog was passed all the puppy bit when I had the children and ther children were passed the preschool age 7 and 11 when I had the other dogs. Now they are teenagers and so are the 2 dogs !!

i am really doing my research, i have been looking into accredited breeders and kennel club breeders, i have been in touch with the breeders where you can see the parents and sometimes the grand parents. i have been looking at the pedigrees and the breeding lines. i don't want to get one before the end of the year so i can do the research thoroughly. i want to do the puppy classes to train the German Shepard and also do agility and obedience with the German Shepard as a hobby. my mum has a golden retriever who is 15months at the moment and my children love her especially the baby, he doesn't leave her alone wherever she is he is. i wouldn't take my kids to see the dogs until i have found a breeder i am comfortable with and have chosen a German Shepard i am comfortable with so don't worry on that part. i would like to build up a re pore with the breeder ideally once i have found one and visit a few times to see the parents. i have also bought the book the dummies guide to German Shepard to read from cover to cover and to refer to in the future.

what would you classes as the banana back ?

> Dont get a Banana back what ever you do

A rather trivial remark given that the poster wants a family pet and not a show dog. Keeping political factions opinions out of this, so that the poster can get the a balanced view of buying a pet, would be more helpful.

if i am correct, a banana back as commonly described as an extreme version of the germanic type of GSD.... they are unmistakable if you see them they literally look like their backs are curved like bananas.
i prefer the middle of the road types, these have the sloping topline, but the back is straight, they have plenty of rear angulation but not as much as a germanic. a level backed GSD is as incorrect type as much as an extreme germanic type, a sloping topline is necessary for the dog to work, it needs the drive from the amount of angulation.

i probably will step on a few toes here, but this is not from my experience, but from a friend who breeds "middle of the road types", she suggests that middle of the road types are the easiest to train, which is why police handlers use them, where as the english type (level backed) are not as intelligent, and the germanic are too giddy.

please dont take this as advice because it hasnt really come from an unbiased source, just wondered how other GSD people could elaborate on this one way or the other

but if im honest, i dont think a GSD would be suitable with your children being so young. they are quite demanding and large dogs, maybe a smaller breed might be a little better

I disagree.... any breed is suitable if you are responsible enough x

> if i am correct

You are not.

A fellow trainer and good friend trains GSDs and has dogs with many working trial qualifications, obedience qualifications and they are pure German in breeding and type. Her original dogs are german imports and have the most wonderful, calm and confident temperaments.
On her wall she has passing out photos of serving Police dogs with their handlers.......... suppied by her.

> they are unmistakable if you see them they literally look like their backs are curved like bananas.
>

Yes.... if my friend rams their butts up and under toward their chest she can achieve this show stance...many can but dont want to.

On such an important purchase and with 3 young children involved, I would have thought that accurate information and advice should be given.

i do want a family dog with a good temperament that can be trained on basic things, agility and obedience. i think that is why it is so confusing as there is different views out there. good job i have a year to find out. im not worried about getting a big dog with my children as i plan to spend time with the dog and the kids as a family, make sure it has its walks, grooming, playing, training etc this is everything i have to think about to make sure it will fit in with our lifestyle. i have been bought up with big dogs and i think if they are trained from a young age properly you shouldn't have a problem and i want my children to be able to control the dog to some degree as well. i would never leave my children alone with any dog whether its big or small.

like i said

> please dont take this as advice because it hasnt really come from an unbiased source

> I disagree.... any breed is suitable if you are responsible enough x

but as a first time dog owner it is better to make things easier on yourself.

I as a first time dog owner and mother of a toddler had as my first dog a Belgian Shepherd Groenendael.  I would not advise someone to do the same, some breeds are far more demanding and require a lot more knowledge to not go wrong/get the best out of them.  I would say any breed with strong herding/prey drive and guarding instincts fits this category.

I was very committed and very quickly picked up on the need to be vigilant re toddler and pup/dog, keeping both safe.  As my daughter got larger it was more an issue of keeping dog safe from her friends, much as she loved my daughter a lot of children had her out of her comfort zone and I ensured she had a bolt hole.

I became a single parent when she was daughter was 3, dog 2 and I was pregnant with second child.

The dog was high energy and high maintenance mentally.  Sadly she died when my son was a year old and my daughter was 4 1/2. 

I wanted a wash and wear dog, of a fairly natural look, medium size, more self reliant than my last dog breed, but affectionate and even tempered, and sturdy enough to cope with young children, look the part but not really any great guarding tendencies, enter my current breed that suits me perfectly. 

Probably might not suit someone else, as one mans meat is another mans poison.

I totally agree........

It is a shame people do not think about child ownership in the same way. 

Sammy it may be an idea to say why you think a GSD is the right breed for you.

Is this because you have lived with the breed or impressions you have gained?

There are many breeds common and uncommon that can fit your needs if you make a list of Must Have's and Must have nots.

Some of these may be practical, some aesthetic, some to do with character traits.

For example for me:

Practicalities:
Must be medium size, not too large (to manage easily while walking with pushchairs or small children) or small (tripped over), an easy care coat, but I don't like short coats, or ones with hair that tangles and needs trimming or more than once a week grooming (OK when moulting I would expect to comb though daily).

Characteristics:
As said before i didn't want the responsibility of dealing with a strong guarding or suspicious nature.  Hail fellow well met suits me best.  It was also important that the breed were generally sociable with other dogs, so some breed with dog dominant temperaments were out even though in other ways they would have suited.  Also a one man or very clingy breed was out with the children naturally taking up so much of my attention, a dog that wanted to crawl under my skin was just too needy to deal with.

Aesthetics:
I like natural looking prick eared dogs, Floppy ears and loose lips do not appeal.  I like a thick coated dog, but not want to deal with hairdressing ;)

Just personal view but I had my first gsd and a fairly large one when adult before children were even considered she was a fantastic dog although full on. I never had any worries about her with my kids andother people were my problem either there own bias against the breed as whole or their and their kids reactions when visiting just because being large furry and gsd was worrying for many. After I lost her at 12 my next dog was a flatti,many reasons but one of the main ones was I wanted a dog that I could have people around and not have to explian she was not a problem and that i could relax when walking her. She was everything I wanted. I now have another gsd I love the breed but he is hard work and the same problems arise when i am out he too is full on and I cant take my eyes off him for a minite any problems that occured would always be percieved as his fault first. I love him dearly but miss the easy relaxed attitiude of the flatti
Brainless you sum up your change of breed and the reasons very well some of which are very similar to mine.
Sammy despite our negative comments it may very well be that a gsd is the right breed for you and you will find your new companion

> Sammy despite our negative comments it may very well be that a gsd is the right breed for you and you will find your new companion

Oh I didn't mean to imply that they might not be ideal, but a lot more work than many others to manage well with little ones around.

I have a friend and her husband who have had dogs and done Obedience for 40 years. 

He has always owned GSD and his wife collies and usually something else to keep her grounded.  A lot of their dogs were rescues, and when their only son was born I think they had 7 large GSD.

they have an 18 month old huge pup at present, and sadly are a lot less able bodied, and he knocks them about something rotten just by walking by or wagging his tale, God forbid he jumps up.

I also have a friend and neighbour that has always owned Dobes and since her children were born is down to one, but they get out of the dogs way when the doorbell goes ;) else they get flattened, even though the dog is gentle as a lamb when thinking children and not cats, birds, or doorbell.

> If your worried about temp are you sure a large breed is right for you and your young family?

I dont know, temperment is one of the main things I look at before I look at whether it is show quality or pet quality.  I want a great temperment in every dog I have.  I dont think asking for a great temperment means she shouldnt have a GSD.  I think it is responsible.  There are far to many overbred, unsocialized dogs about that are producing awful tempered puppies.  I would hate to think that she took your comment and said "well I guess temperment shouldnt matter" and gets a dog that eventually attacks her or her children. 
I will not buy a dog with nasty temperment, or even an iffy one, and my breed is much easier to control just on size (6-9lbs) than a GSD.  But a nasty temperment dog, no matter the size, is not one someone should buy. 
All puppies play bite, no matter the breed.  Just got to know how to take care of the situation and train them that play biting isnt acceptable.

I wasn't suggesting that sammy should get an iffy tempered any breed. Like you say your min pins are small but any dog can bite, it's often the gentler breeds being large. No doubt that temperament shouldn't be your number one priority. I'm expecting our first baby and the dogs I have now are very well tempered but if I was to introduce anymore in the future I would insist on travelling to meet sire, unless he was abroad or at least know the lines well, seeing even tempered siblings in the ring etc. Still I know my breed well and have trained all of my dogs to have manners, training at the moment is focusing on them not being number one In my household as baby will be very dependant on me.

My comments were toward the breed and since you have no other experience other than family pets, which I don't always consider enough especially with a large breed dog, including my breed. A friend of mine had a litter late last year, she has never sold puppies before and asked me to be thier for moral support to the first prospective buyer. I was told to judge from the sidelines, but before I even met after discussing the first phonecall with my friend I said to her I wouldn't allow her to have one of my puppies and that was that. She had 3 of my breed previously and small children almost exact ages as sammy. Normally someone having my breed before would be up in my books, but wait for it. She had her last one pts as it snapped at her child! Just a warning but a 5 yr old bitch (same age as my ruby) this shocked me to the core and I would have said no there and then and ended the phonecall. Now I know she snapped at her child which is bad, but why was a 2yr old pestering her when she was eating? Wrong for so many reasons. ( I know sammy will probably be more responsible than this I'm just highlighting my experience). Anyway this was the week before the viewing the lady showed no remorse and she stated she wanted another big dog but a puppy that can grow with her kids. I thought if you haven't trained one dog properly with the array of kids you have, how will u suceed with this one. She also had a 7 mo baby. Cut a long story short kind of, she took the pup 2 days later called up to say the pups vicious marked her 2yo face, they are going to get a trainer in etc etc. Pup bites her, pulls on clothes, scratches her isn't learning. Needless to say she learnt her lesson and will now listen to my suggestions, but what shall happen with pup. I hope he doesn't end up being pts at the drop of a hat. I vetted slot of the other for her and the amount of ppl that don't understand what a puppy entails, think it comes already socialised, be able to fetch one man said, and not destroy his house.

If you haven't had the experience of raising a large breed pup before your kids then doing it with them around shall be very hard, I have both yours and your future pups intrest at heart. When it's my own pups I'll say no for any reason I don't think someone suitable for MY pup.