Hi,

What are peoples opinions on this? I always said i would never show a dog i owned if it got a CC at open shows again. Never thinking i would be in that situation but that is where i find myself now. The thing is my girl is only 15 months old, she enjoys showing and so do i. I have heard differing opinions so i am just curious about what others have done and think is the right thing to do.

Best Wishes

Melissa

I don't see anything wrong in it -if no CC winners were shown at open shows, open shows would not be worth anything as you'd never get serious competition.  I have two CC winners I still show at open shows. Of course, in my breed the entry is usually very small so I also feel those shows that do offer breed classes for us should be supported.

CC/RCC winners are there to be beaten...and they can be...and yes we've beaten some...
Once thou I had the unfortunate experience of a RCC winner's owner/handler complain to the judge
in earshot/view of me who beat them to win the class...they weren't happy..
But the judge preferred my bitch...and told them so.

So as long as you can take the winning and the losing...
Go have some fun :)

Plus the open shows are learning grounds for some and if you've a quality dog it helps judges
ultimately to have hands on experience of dogs of all varying degrees of quality

been in same situation with a 13 mth old dog.................showed him at open shows ............ not everyone was happy lol

Yes in our breed many people show there CC winning dogs and champions at open shows, they can and have been beaten, its the judges opinions on the day, we have what you call a spectacular show, its an open show (no CC's) but foreign judges very often do the judging, they get a bigger entry than most champ shows. We certainly will be taking our top dogs as a mark of respect to the judge. You.re doing nothing wrong taking dogs with CC.s to open shows.

You will find loads of people will be doing it running up to Crufts trying to get in some last minute practice, I don't have a problem with CC winners entering Open Shows, but I would be put off it it were International Champions.

Great for new judges to get their hands on quality dogs. Go for it!!!!!!

The clue is in the name 'Open show' and it is Open to all. 

There are Limited shows and prior to that there used to be Sanction shows where higher winning dogs were not allowed. 

These have died out/all but died out due to lack of support, so people can't have it all their own way and complain about quality exhibits being entered at Open shows.

My won breed has 20 sets of CC's across the country including Belfast, so I tend to attend about 12 of these.  If I want to go to more shows then that only leaves Open shows, and why should I not go.

In my breed if CC winners and champions did not support their local shows there would be even fewer shows where the breed can be seen.

I have to admit I do not go to many Open shows these days as I try not to do more than about a show a month in Winter and two a month in Summer, but there are others who enjoy showing most weekends.

Of course just beause you have a CC winning or Champion exhibit does not mean you will win ;)

Thank you everyone for your responses. I don't feel quite so bad about taking her now should a judge come up i would like to enter her under. A pre Crufts practice will be on the cards i think!

Mel.x

We have no shows before Crufts to give the dogs a run out, so will have to put extra ring training in, good luck at Crufts Mel, and everyone else.

Same here - I got a few comments when I continued taking Henry to open shows after he won a CC at 14 months, but unlike a lot of the 'big names', I don't have the luxury of a dozen or more dogs with a new puppy coming out to play with every 12 - 18 months. I decided to keep showing him at both open and Champ level throughout his career. I think with Champions it's a bit different, I wouldn't take one to an open show except in Stakes classes.

Wev dont tend to enter many open shows nowadays, but if its a spectacular open show we will,

i dont have any CC winners but i would still take them if i did, up to two of cause, you wouldnt tkae a champ would you.

Why not? Not taking good dogs to open shows means that wins at open shows lose their meaning. People tend not to, but it's not against the rules; open shows are Open To All.

> you wouldnt tkae a champ would you.

Then how is a judge preparing to award CC's supposed to know what a CC quality dog looks like?

Do you really think the first time a judge gets to handle CC winners/Champions/Top quality exhibits should be when they have the responsibility of awarding CC's?

This lack of quality exhibits continuing to be shown at Open show level once in their prime, it could be argued, may be a contributing cause of poor judging.

All the above is very true but you have to decide whether you mind being unpopular.

Personally I dont give a jot, but it's only fair to mention it...popularity may be important to you :-)

I think it does much depend on how popular your breed is and how much showing opportunity sticking to Championship shows only would give you.

With so few new exhibits coming through each year in my breed we need to keep showing each one for at least 10 years and at as many venues as possible.

I have bred adn owned 3 champions now,a dn the oen before that a RCC winenr, the first wo never won at that level, yet all ahve ahd equal success, or lack of at Open show level.

The highest award I have gained was RBPIS and RBIS at Open shows, usually I have not even placed in the Groups, though placed on occasion, yet have won better at championship shows in Stakes and Groups.

I only have one dog at present which I currently show (who now has 2 CC's). I enjoy showing, my dog enjoys showing and TBH as far as I'm concerned as long as it's a day out which we all enjoy, I'll carry on doing the open shows.

Also, going to open shows, is still a great way of continually socialising your dog, and if people want to moan/complain etc, well, thats up to them, cos my dogs are my pets first and foremost, and although winning at any level is great, I do go primarily for enjoyment. So, my opinion is, if you enjoy showing, carry on doing the shows (whatever level), and as has been said previously, also a chance for a newer judge to get their hands on some quality dogs, and it keeps the breed numbers up so classes are held in the future for your breed

I think it does much depend on how popular your breed is and how much showing opportunity sticking to Championship shows only would give you.

Same here. With some Open shows just getting one or two entries (and in our breed we show them to 12 and above), if people didn't take Champions some shows would have none at all.  I've beaten Champions at Open shows with untitled dogs and it gives an extra nice feeling! :) But truly I wouldn't mind in a more popular breed either.

Open shows are the place the next generation of championship show judges are learning, so it is useful to enter a CC or RCC winner. It is important to enter and if fellow exhibitors don't like it then thats not good, also it stops up coming judges getting the chance to go over a good dog.

Oh and I forgot to say, in dogs, unlike in cats, we only have the ONE title to be won at champshows -that of Champion (or Show Champion for certain breeds). (In cats you go way beyond that. First step is Champion, then Grand Champion, Imperial Champion, UK Grand Champion. Then you neuter your older cat that's been retired from breeding and start all over again with the neuter titles.) So if you have a limited number of dogs to show, surely you may want to try for the ShCM as well, and for that you HAVE to show at open shows.

really all i can think if people moan about a cc winner being entered then what does that say about the quality of their dogs being shown and are they in the wrong sport with their dogs, if they have a dog thats a good breed representive then they should not fear any competion.

This is not a critisicm as it is allowed in the rules but, my daughter takes part in the YKC stakes classes, we are essentally a pet home having a go at showing and so the puppy is probably going to be our only real shot at showing, but if we enter him in the YKC stakes classes there are no barriers on age of the dog or it's achievements, (the only rule being it must be registered to the YKC member or family) so you are likely to have CC, JW and SH CHs in the class with complete beginners. 

Since it is a showing class for the dog not the handler, why shouldn't a CC winner be there, but I can't think of any other class that is likely to be so OPEN and I do feel it excludes many young people from being able to compete on an even footing next to a family who've been into their breed many years and established excellent dogs and furthermore, have new dogs coming in all the time..  Just an observation that it would be nice to see the class split according to class wins/age like in a breed split!!!

I'm new but I don't have an objection to CC winners being at the Open shows if we are able to learn from them about what it takes.  I'm unlikely to be in the same class as them anyway once out of the puppy classes

I have a 16mnth old dog, slow maturing vulnerable breed, not many being shown in Scotland, not a lot of breed classes at open shows so we end up in AVNSC (usually open) or when there is a breed class it's always open which is fair enough. I got my boy to show and if he does well enough to win CC's I still want to show him at open shows as so far we are having a lot of fun!

The other week we were at our local open show, in the AVNSC open class and we won the class. We went in for the group and there were at least 2 Champions that I know of in the ring with us, the judge made his shortcut and we were still in the ring so I was over the moon. Still the Championswere in the ring  with us and I knew the other dogs had done well so I was happy that we had got this far. To my surprise we won the group obviously beating the Champions which made it a huge achievement and an amazing day! It's given me more confidence in my dog and my handling abilities but Champions can be beaten so why shouldn't they compete at open shows?

If I ever made my dog a Champion and could only show him at Champ shows it would cost me an absolute fortune due to geographical issues and it would spoil the fun of meeting up with friends locally or fairly locally!

Quite agree. 

MY breed has just 4 sets of CC in Scotland, April, May, June, and October. 

That gives very little scope for showing, just suppose your bitch was in season or out of coat in the Spring, and then the same in Autumn, might not be fit to show at any of them.

My breed has just 8 sets of tickets in total -ALL between May and September -plus Crufts. So Open shows are a must if you want to show between October and April -they are actually worth far more than champ.shows without tickets and cheaper to enter too.

In my breed and i would assume in probably some/many others that showing a champ at an open show in a breed open class is normally a no no, stakes classes are fine. Also what is seen to be frowned upon is those with Ch's who also have Shcm to their dogs name as well..
Also frowned upon is when they go to many and i mean many open shows when they also attend most of the champ shows and having cc's at most of the shows i'm not sure what they would really be missing out on?? These people normally spend a fortune on advertising their kennel too, so my point on the people i know is that they aren't short on money or shows that they can enter.
I think maybe it does depend on breed and also area, if your breed tends to have classes on at most shows then i'm not sure what you are achieving when you've achieved everything and you can go into a stakes class if you and your dog enjoy it???

I know people in my breed who feel this way and when their dog has achieved something at open show level they stop showing them at these all breed shows, very different at club shows..