Hi, asking this for a colleague who would like to add a dog to their family.

They have one son aged 3 and would like a smaller dog that they can raise from a puppy that would be good with children. I suggested they look at the KC website and read the various breed descriptions and also to see what health checks that breed needed etc. Are Cavalier KCS good with children? Or a Cocker? Any experienced owners or breeders opinions please. (I already warned about the puppy biting part!)

Thanks.

what about something a little more "hardy" than a ckcs? maybe a terrier type, small but not as fragile as a ckcs so if child gets a little rough the pup has less chance of being hurt. if that makes sense... maybe a westie or scottie... something a little more robust than a toy, but not much bigger than a toy. i only have big breed so cant comment fully, just thought this might be an idea from the practical side of things?

HTH
xx

CKC  far to many health problems at the moment for a new owner,  cockers can be a bit sharp, not all, but some, so you would have to be very careful where you got one from.
border terriers have very few health problems and are great with children and adults but can be a bit sharp with other dogs, needs lots of socialising as do most terriers.

go and see lots of puppies and take the children with you, dont full in love with the first one you see !

when choosing a breed don't forget different dogs need different amounts of exercise and some train easier than others.
for example i have a min schnauzer and although easy to train she could exercise all day given the chance, one of my other dogs is a TT and she has short bursts of energy.
also do they want a dog that needs very little grooming etc some dogs need a lot of extra looking after than just walking and playing with.
a puppy is a lot of work with a young child, sleepless nights and a lot of time and energy but i expect you've explained that to your friend.
i've never owned a boarder terrier as the other poster mentioned but i know a couple and they are very vocal,lots of barking and getting excited but great to train.
cocker spaniel could be a good choice but whatever they choose i'd look  at calmer breeds that don't need too much exercise. 
 

We had a pap when my lot were little. They look delicate but they are not and he was absolutely fabulous with them.

> go and see lots of puppies and take the children with you, dont full in love with the first one you see !

IF you plan on following this course of action tell the breeders if/when you have seen other pups - this is a recipe for spreading infection between litters!

I am not sure what the OP would learn from visiting lots of pups anyway - you need to see adult dogs of the breed to make sure it is right for your family, but the overwhelming cuteness of almost any litter makes common sense go out of the window. 

We had a pap when my lot were little. They look delicate but they are not and he was absolutely fabulous with them.

I have to disagree -Papillons ARE very delicate in that their bones break very easily (broken legs is far too common), so great caution is always needed. I would not sell a puppy to anyone with small children, and I don't even allow my 9 years old to ever pick one of mine up without supervision -and even that is rare. Hence I don't think the breed is very suitable for families with children, unless they are older children. Puppies are so small as well, you have to walk without lifting your feet, just shuffling along in case you step on them! My smallest adult is far smaller than my cats.

Paps are great family pets but I agree that they are easily trodden on and will happilly leap out of childs arms etc but in reality most toy dogs will be the same.
What about Westie size? Still small but more robust and judging by how many are family pets must be reasonable?
Does it have to be a pedigree? I know this is Champdogs site but many small cross bred dogs will be in the pound at any given time including puppies.
I guess maybe your friend needs to list what is important, other than size, and then try to match with the right dog.

> I guess maybe your friend needs to list what is important, other than size, and then try to match with the right dog.

Excellent point, perhaps if the OP gets a little more background, and ideas of what appeal to her friend's , then we can make more to the point suggestions - ideas on family activity levels/how much excercise can be given regularly, grooming commitment, breeds of dogs whose appearance appeals, etc. etc.

> CKC far to many health problems at the moment for a new owner

Rather dismisive I think.

I have a house full of cavaliers (8) all with clear hearts, eyes and everything over 2 is MRI scanned clear of SM.
As much as I dont recommend a Cavalier in this instance, I do think it very wrong to state your opinion quite so strongly when health concious breeders can and do supply potentially healthy pups.

I also strongly disagree with taking children around to see lots of pups. If they want a healthy example of any breed - research the right breeder and hope that he/she lets them have one. .

How about a Cairn.  I'm not really into small dogs, especially Terriers - but my daughter has one and she is absolutely brilliant with her 2 children - even a 4 year old who is quite heavy handed with her.

It's well worth reading up about Group traits too - particularly with terriers (and hounds perhaps?).  There are some aspects of ownership that apply to many of the breeds within these groups and they aren't suitable for all.  There is a good terrier rescue site here that has some excellent background reading about the various breeds and working types.

I'd also suggest taking on an older dog.  There are many dogs available that will have had some basic training and will be long past the toilet training stage.  Older dogs are ideal as they can 'hit the ground running' as it were.  You can get straight off to classes, and out walking immediately - subject to the application of some common sense obviously!

In a home where there is such a young child, who will obviously require a lot of parenting, a more mature dog can be a blessing.  A 'steady eddie' will make a fabulous family dog. 

How about a little rescue mix breed?

Thanks all for the ideas, whilst picking up today I happened to hear of a litter of working bred cockers. Previous pups had made very good pets for the family/fireside as well as workers so I took a number for my colleague to have a chat with the breeder. (Very tempted myself!)

Thanks Gwen, I will try to get more info on what type of small dog appeals to her and how much time/training she could give.

Not a breed I would recommend in this situation. My daughter's friend has a 5 month old working cocker bitch, lovely dog but such hard work!!! She is full on all the time. I took the friend and the dog out last week to try some training with her, I was amazed at her working instinct and I own a very busy breed myself!

I'd happily recommend my favoured breed to a family with a 3 + yearold child. Puppy biting apart they are perfect.......yea to the Australian terriers.

:)  :)

ok, plan of action is I'm going to loan them my KC breed standards book with a note to look at the KC web site and Champdogs. Then to find the breed club site of a breed that takes their fancy to find out more about temperament and health. (Also to come back to me!)

I will mention working cockers could possibly be a bit busy for them (but they might like that.)

How about pugs? I've seen one out beating!

I agree with the posting about thw Working Cocker, in my opinion best suited to an experienced owner with high excercise and training commitments - a dog who likes to have a job of work to do.  Can be a handful when bored.

My personal view of pugs is that they can be an ideal family dog, but my own rule is that I usually don't sell to families with children under 4.  As toy breeds go they are on the bigger size and robust so can stand quite a bit of rough and tumble, they love kids and games, are not snappy.  On the negative side training can be hard, pugs have very determined natures and very individual training requirements.  The fawns also cast a lot, so
the family would have to be prepared for that.

> Thanks all for the ideas, whilst picking up today I happened to hear of a litter of working bred cockers. Previous pups had made very good pets for the family/fireside

I would never recommend working bred Cockers or Springers as pets especially for first time owners, most of them have huge exercise & mental stimulus requirements and are really best suited for those who work their dogs or are experienced in high energy breeds.  Likewise I would never recommend working bred 'Collies' as pets, too.

Hi Walkhound,

I would recommend a basset hound for your friend- they are not tiny dogs but are fantastic with children very calm & loving. I find terriers jack Russell or cairns + many small breeds to be very energetic and can get hyper, with a small child a basset is small in stature but big in personality.

With small children I would tend not to suggest small breeds but sturdy medium size ones.

> It's well worth reading up about Group traits too - particularly with terriers (and hounds perhaps?). 

Wouldn't agree with the hounds bit, but that is because my breed is in that group and this has affected many peoples perception of the breed compared to Spitz in other groups, seems being in the Hound Group immediately makes a breed unsuitable as a family pet in many peoples minds..

I agree Brainless with the medium breeds more suitable for young children. Now having a large gsd and a 7lb pom x ( yes she is v big for her breed now think she is more likely to be a spitz cross chi)and watching them with my 4 year old neice who is used to gsd, her mum and Dad have one to. I would be very dubious about having a small delicate breed with little children. My niece loves her but it is really difficult to stop her trying to treat her like a doll and pik her up all the time I really wouldn't want to deal with that on a daily basis unfair on both the dog and the children.
I think the family would be  able to have more safe fun with a medium sized friendly breed.

If I were to get a smaller breed that I thought would be good around my kids I think I'd get a staffy - all the ones I've met are practically as bomb proof as any dog can be with kids, I've been told it has to do with their historical use as fighting dogs making them less bothered by pain (hence not phased by the odd ear pull or pinch) and having to be friendly and submissive to their less than plesent masters.  Plus they seem to really love being with kids.  That said, they need loads of exercise and aren't the easiest to train, lots of help from a knowledgeable trainer would be needed I think if they were a first dog. 

If your colleague were to consider a medium sized breed, what about the Smooth collie (or rough if they don't mind the coat) - they are great family pets and need less exercise than a border collie or labrador and are pretty easy to train. 

I really wanted to get one because I thought they'd be great for our family but my husband wanted a bigger dog.  I know they are considered to be great family dogs - although I'm not sure about very young children.  They are supposed to be very gentle and patient dogs.  I think they are quite a long lived and healthy breed as well.  And if your colleague got one they'd be helping out a rare native breed!

I would suggest as a general point though that an adult rescue dog would be very well worth considering with children under school age - puppies take up sooo much time in looking after, socialising, training, more socialising etc for at the very least a year and with young children it is hard to commit that much time.