http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23771565-pitbull-savages-womans-guide-dog-at-station.do

Oh  i knew i should not have watched that,that was terrible,the poor guide dog.....that made me feel quite sick and upset.
Was he ok after do you know,i could not read it as it kept jumping off the words.

Ok just had my tea and i feel sick now watching that.

I'm not one for blaming the breed whatever breed it is but what was this man doing he looked cagey from the word go and surely must of known his dog had dog issues.

I felt so sorry for that guide dog it was being dragged along the floor i hope they catch him sure got a good enough picture of him

edited to add

Yes guide dog survived its in the vets with puncture's to the neck

What makes this video especially shocking is that the dog owner's initial attempts to grab his dog show he knows exactly what his dog is going to do (ergo, not trustworthy with other dogs) and I'll bet the dog has done this plenty of times before. Despite almost certainly knowing what his dog is like the owner has it  offlead at this point (or so it looks to me) and certainly not under control. It's a horrible, horrible and increasingly familiar scenario.

Firstly I would like to mention that this article annoys me that the dog that did this horrible thing so looks like a boxer.... not a pit cross? Always the media hay...

Besides that I am sure that this man will be found after this being publicised even if it is highly distressing for folk to witness. Thank the lord there was not sound because it must of been more horrific. Poor poor lab & owner- I can not think this dog will ever get over this attack and be a guide dog again from the stress it has suffered.

If it is a Boxer it doesn't have a typical head for the breed, too broad and long of muzzle.
Althou granted the markings are some that you would see in the breed.

Could be an American Bulldog cross or pit cross..or even Boxer cross...
It doesn't matter what the breed or variety of cross

Whatever this stupid person had no control over his dog and there's no way he should
have let the dog's lead be left on the floor without him holding it.
Anyone is aware if their dog has issues with others and wouldn't take the risk...

Which is precisely where for the lack of others responsibility breeds or those that look
similar or of type will be penalised. As will their responsible owners :(

I however feel sorry for the poor lab and it's owner.
Here's hoping there's no lasting damage for them.

> If it is a Boxer it doesn't have a typical head for the breed, too broad and long of muzzle.

I agree, it doesn't look like a Boxer and I also agree that the breed is irrelevant. The problem is the IDIOT owner, who obviously knew his dog was not good with other dogs, going by his frantic reaction to grab his dog when he spotted the guide dog, which he wouldn't have needed to do if he had hold of it's lead

Poor guide dog & owner :( This attack was 100% preventable with something as simple as the dogs lead being held instead of dropped on the floor :( :( :(

I have to agree that I'm not 100% sure that the dog attacking is a pitbull, very similar looking to a lot of american bulldogs, but that is by the by...breed is irrelevant somewhat...

I am absolutely shaking with anger that this silly silly young man could let something like that happen.  I mean what the heck was he doing??????  He was stood in a railway station corridor, not holding onto the lead, looking shady & suspicious to say the least!

I'm furious.  Absolutely livid in fact.  I hope that the man is severely severely reprimanded.
I also hope that the poor lab is ok.

Grrrr.  I can't tell you how angry I am.  :(

Sickening..
Was the offending dog actually on a lead, i didn't see it on one..I don't want to see that again, that attack went on for longer than i expected it to.. Poor Lab and got what must the person who was in control of the guide dog of thought??
As for type of dog, an aggressive one, regardless of its make up..

> Was the offending dog actually on a lead, i didn't see it on one

Yes, the man was holding the lead untill he stood still, put the dog in a 'down' and dropped the lead on the floor while he was fiddling with something (mobile 'phone perhaps?).

He did look like he was up to something by just standing there, its almost like he knew what was about to come around the corner.. Who knows.. Lets hope they find him and deal with him..

not only was the owner stupid enough to either not have it on the lead or drop the lead on the floor while hanging around, he also fled the scene leaving that poor dog and blind person, probally very very scared and hurt. I cant start to imagine the fear the owner of the guide dog must of felt.

What affect this will have on that poor guide god knows ! May not even be able to work again due to this attack it's got to  have been scared  half to death . As for the other dog it's needs to be PTS before it happens again.
.

> As for the other dog it's needs to be PTS before it happens again.
> .

I think the bloke should be PTS as well,,, he does seem to be standing as if waiting for some thing to happen. Was he testing the dogs stay or something??

The fear that woman must have felt for herself and her dog.

It was horrific to watch and read about - God help the poor owner of the Guide dog as much as the poor thing itself.

FWIW I don't think the breed, or variables in the mix which produced that dog is - as some have stated - irrelevant.  I have never seen personally or on TV/internet a dog attack where it lasted so long and the owner was literally kicking lumps out of it to break it up which didn't involve a dog bred to look like that in some form or another.

As far as Im concerned it was a pit bull type - and that level of sustained attack and tenacity regardless of what is done to stop it is typical of such animals.

Blame it's owner?  Yes, very definitely.  Blame the mix of some form of fighting breed with another of substance for the level of ferocity and tenacity exhibited?  Again, very definitely.

I saw this on the news but decided not to post it in case people were eating. Truly horrific to watch & i think it is important to remember that faced with the same situation we would all be as helpless BUT then none of us would be in that situation because we don't take risks with our dogs & i think that is largely what it came down to. Clearly the man knew his dog was not good with other dogs but he took a foolish risk and let his guard down for just a few seconds.

Easy to say it after the event but he just should never have let his guard down in the first place. I certainly would not have if it was my dog and i knew it had issues like that. I always carry a small can of pet corrector when i have the dogs with me for exactly this sort of thing because it is not my dogs i do not trust, it's some other people's. I have lost count of the times i have been out in public with my 2 large breeds and had to walk past a bull type that is dragging it's owner to get to my dogs and showing serious aggression.

(And before anyone bites *scuse pun* yes, i know not all bull types are like that.)

Just adding on the end ....... They showed it on GMTV early this morning but only showed the dog attack and the guy running away to give him his due at least he made every attempt to get the dog off.  I dont think he intended it to happen, he looked like he was stopping to use his phone but because he had a drink in his hand for some reason put down the drink and the dog lead, he did try to grab the dog when he saw the guide dog coming.  Im not defending him, obviously it was his fault for not controlling his dog but I dont think he intended it to happen.

Did you see the guide dog run away then go back the way the attacking dog went ? that was where its owner went - now thats dedication.

Agreed. I don't think he intended it at all, but he could have prevented it. It was was just a split second that he dropped his guard. We would all know for certain if our dog had issues like that and he clearly knew because he saw the guide dog before his dog did and he instantly tried to grab his dog but missed. I expect he is probably just as horrified about it.

> Blame the mix of some form of fighting breed with another of substance for the level of ferocity and tenacity exhibited?  Again, very definitely.

I had a dog-agressive dog years ago, I found out he was agressive when he launced an attack like the one in the video, on my friends whippet, whom he had been friends with (amazingly the whippet survived the neck woundss after having to stay in the vets for several days).

It took 2 people several mintues to get him off, after beating him repeadedly with the metal clip end of his lead, we only got him off when we dragged him away the same instant he was altering his grip, whatever we did to him wasn't making a difference.

And with that determination in a fight, the breed? He was a mongel, his mum was a cute little mongrel (no apparant breed obvious in her look/temperment she was a small build dog and loved everything) & his dad was a lab (dog & people friendly ), he looked similar to a greyhound but not as big & had no prey drive. There was nothing about his looks or general personality that would attrack the yobs who like weapon dogs, he was a slim, athletic (in a 'born to run' sort of way) looking mongrel, nothing to look at really and was a very people & cat friendly dog, he just didn't like other dogs (got on perfect with his sister that he lived with and some other females).

This sort of atack is not confined to pitbulls/staffies, it's typical of dog-agressive dogs of any breed :( Afterall, the dog attacked and grabbed the other dogs neck, pinning him down (just like my dog did) no rippping or shaking, just pinning. I expect if the owner hadn't been beating & pulling his dog, there would have been no damage to the other dogs neck (it was the vets that told us how us pulling my dog around had caused all the ripping 7 wounds to the whippets neck). .

The video clip looked very shocking, but not ferocious, it wasn't frantically tearing the other dog apart in a bid to kill it, it was pinning it down, the shocking thing is seeing it with our own eyes and seeing a dog withstand that sort of beating from it's owner without it making a difference, but that is possible from a meagre, non-threatening looking mongrel, like the one I had. Nobody could have blamed his breed, he wasn't even of any 'type', he was simply a dog, with dog agression.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Dangerous-Dog-CCTV-Images-Show-Guide-Dog-Being-Savaged-By-Terrier-Dog/Article/200911315458124?lpos=UK_News_Second_UK_News_Article_Teaser_Region_5&lid=ARTICLE_15458124_Dangerous_Dog%3A_CCTV_Images_Show_Guide_Dog_Being_Savaged_By_Terrier_Dog

Whether this guy intended it to happen or not, which obviously he didn't, his actions speak volumes - he ran away. He's your average British lager-swilling scum.

As to the dog, time and time again we see the same thing and it's always a 'pit bull type'. I don't care what arguements there are that it's 'deed not breed' etc, these dogs are far more dangerous than others due to their potential. There's no getting away from that.

For some people to have suggested it's a boxer is rididulous.

Really? Can you provide any examples to substantiate that 'time and time again we see the same thing and it's always a 'pit bull type'

I would be interested in your sources. Unless of course you are paying lip service to breed prejudice, without any evidence?

I have a sneaky suspicion that if it were another breed you would be saying something along the lines of  'time and time again we see the same thing and it's always a 'Rottweiler'

>time and time again we see the same thing and it's always a 'pit bull type'.

thats because thats what the media is interested in, they wouldnt be interested in the fact that my dog is constantly attacked by black labradors, the last one to attack him which was last week left him with some very nasty puncture wounds - one of which has defaced his ear tattoo.  These labs fight just the same, fly in with no warning pinning my dog to the ground refusing to get off even with constant kicking to the head !!!  And the owners arent "british lager swilling scum" most of them are well to do country folk who cant believe their precious dog would do something so awful - but it doesnt stop them allowing it to happen again, last weeks attack was the 2nd by that same dog - the owners excuse was that it doesnt like my dog ..... oh well thats ok then !!

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf

Well you could start with the above. I'll give you a clue, search for the figure '1100'.

I could list the many many news items over the last few years, but I won't bother. Anyone who doesn't recognise the potential of these animals for danger isn't going to be persuaded by any statements of fact.

And i'll give you a clue - USA & Canada.

You seem to be getting Staffs and Pitt Bulls mixed up, just like the media does. Seriously, i want you to list all the incidents you know of in the UK where Staffordhire Bull Terriers have been the breed responsible. I'm guessing you wont be able to.

I will also point out that the link you posted has nothing to do with incidents like we are discussing anyway because it is not about dog on dog attacks. You stated that time and time again we see the same thing and it's always a 'pit bull type', implying that the incident we are discussing about a pitt bull 'type' attacking another dog is something we see all the time. Now back it up.

>As to the dog, time and time again we see the same thing and it's always a 'pit bull type'.

Even when photographs of the dog prove it to be a JRT or a spaniel, the original report invariably mentions a 'pitbull-type', and that's what people remember.

lab007

Those of us who have already posted on this thread are very much aware that whatever breed is on the cctv clip could be of  bull breed origin, we are also very much aware that this took place in Britain.  But most of all, we are also as disgusted by the attack as you quite obviously are. 

More than anything the dog looks like the large type American Bulldog, but so hard to say from the clip and, the most important point is that had the dog been under proper control the incident would not have happened. Large, powerful breeds with guarding or fighting tendencies need careful training and management. The problem is that the wrong people are owning these dogs. It's analogous to giving a Ferrari to someone who has only just learned to drive, or to someone who drives like a lunatic- it's going to end in tears because the car is simply too powerful and needs knowledgable and careful handling.

flyball:

I'm simply not interested in any distinction made between US/Canada and the UK. It makes no difference.

I'm also not interested in any distinction between dog-on-dog and dog-on-human attacks. A vicious out of control dog is a vicious out of control dog.

That you just dismissed out of hand the alarmingly high figure of 1100 attacks recorded in the report (which is so much higher that any other figure it's ridiculous) along with the commentary, says it all.

Finally, who mentioned staffordshires? I am talking about the inherent propensitity to violence and the potential for damage, of bull-type breeds.

As I already mentioned, I don't imagine presenting you with twenty different stories of such attacks would make a bit of difference to you.

Any don't bother with the patronising tone.

regardless of breed. if you know that your dog has agression issues that strong the dog should be muzzled in public.
had to do it with my own late dog years back-after an unprovoked attack in the street she became fear aggressive with other dogs-and for their safety and hers she was muzzled when out of our home for the months it took to get her over it and back to her normal friendly self.

attacks on guide dogs are unfortunatly not unheard of.  a blind friend of ours was housed on a particualry nasty social houseing esate and had to carry a heavy choke chain to beat off latchkey dogs while he and his guide dog tried to get off the estate to go shopping etc. terrifying for him and his dog.  thankfully after a LOT of talking to council he got a move to a better area eventually.  I did at time try talking to the dog warden over it but was wasting breath as they were not prepared to come and pick up the loose dogs in the streets. they said either owners would reclaim the dogs and turn them loose again or worse owners wouldn't claim and they would be impossible to rehome.  Personally I think they were scared of the owners :(   for record the latchkey dogs in his area were all staffy/staffy crosses. not saying staffys bad dogs but lets face it had they been latchkey poms it wouldn't have been such an issue-fact was they were powerful strong dogs out of control.

>> Any don't bother with the patronising tone.

Please reel your head in before you start being rude to people.

Completely unnecessary, and you most certainly are NOT going to get your point across in a calm and sensible manner by being that way.

I think you might have mis-directed your comment. Or did I reply to wrong post? Have edited my remark.

> I think you might have mis-directed your comment.

No, it was fully intended toward you lab007.  I can't see where anyone has been patronising toward you.

>I'm simply not interested in any distinction made between US/Canada and the UK. It makes no difference.

Yes it does; the bloodlines, training methods and way of life for dogs are totally different, all of which influence a dog's behaviour.

>I'm also not interested in any distinction between dog-on-dog and dog-on-human attacks.

You should be - they are completely different, as any good behaviourist knows. Dogs which are antagonistic to their own species are common - it's rare for those same dogs to direct their antagonism to humans.

This is a terrible attack, and should have been handled very differently to the way it was.

Then I suggest you read back the comments from 'flyball'

hmm.. ok well, I had read all the replies more than once, but have now read flyball's replies yet again and I'm afraid I still can't see patronising, only questioning. 

It is a very distressing video, much more so than I thought it would be. Glad I saw it through I needed to see the lab get up, at least the video is not close enough to see the wounds. However upsetting we have found this video, I can't contemplate how the blind woman must have felt, hearing her dog being attacked like that. I hope that people helped her.

I too wonder how this will affect the dog, will it be mentally ok now to do it's job, will it feel it needs to flee when seeing another dog? I hope that all that hard work and training is not lost, that would be another tragedy.

The man tried to help, I'll give him that, I can even understand to an extent why he left as obviously he needed to get the dog away otherwise it would have continued to make frightening noises and go for the lab, the dog needed to be moved.  But if he were a decent human being he should have from a distance asked an official to help, he should have seen that the lady was ok and that the dog was taken to the vet and left his details.  But I guess fear makes people do the wrong thing, it often does. No doubt with all the press he will be identified though.

The man may or may not be a thug, but I saw him trying to help, he kicked and hit his own dog and tried his best to call it off, it didn't turn on him either, to me it looked like human error once again causing this tragedy as it often does, a muzzle and a holding of the lead would have prevented it all. If it were up to me a hefty fine would suffice, unfortunately there are a lot of dogs around who attack other dogs, plenty of people on the board have dog aggressive dogs a calling for them to be put to sleep (which is what I have been hearing from colleagues and friends) would be unfair, although I personally would not like the responsibility of such a dog others can live with it with precautions, the man may even be terrified with the uproar this has caused that his dogs life is in danger due to his mistake, he may well be panicking.

I hope that poor woman will be ok, I can't begin to imagine what she went through that day and most importantly the poor lab. As already said all so easily preventable.

I dont think to put a dog down that went  in for a kill  by the throat of another with no trigger needed  is wrong , it should  not spend one more day amongst us

I wonder  if the owner of the Guide dog feels  the same,  the owner who is now probably house bound  with a savaged  dog and probably  both too scared to go out again because of it, there is no place for dogs that will try and kill others on sight .

Flyball

> Can you provide any examples to substantiate that 'time and time again we see the same thing and it's always a 'pit bull type'

I couldn't count the amount of times I've witnessed it personally.  My house is built on the edge of a public park.  Locally owned dogs account for around 70% of those exercised there and are of many breeds across all groups as well as many crosses and 'heinz 57' appearance.   In the last 2 years there have been around 30 serious attacks (numerous other fights which are worse than simple 'scrapping') I personally know of on local dogs resulting in injuries which required vet attention and three dogs have died as a consequence.  All were carried out by poorly bred bull breeds and their crosses.  These days it's rare to see decent people walking their dogs there except in groups.  There are several GSD, a Giant Schnauzer and Ridgeback owners among others who wont expose their dogs to the dangers from these yob owned and bred time bombs.  NB - there are SBT owners who wont either! 

Within a few minutes walk of my home there is another park, more of a woodland walk.   Around 10 years ago the woodland walk became out of bounds to anyone with common sense and local knowledge due to the number of dog fights and attacks on family pets being exercised, all involved Pit Bull look-a-likes, something which was investigated by police as it was believed there was planned illegal fights being staged and trained for there.  I don't know the outcome of that investigation.

None of this makes headlines - it's local knowledge.  In other areas it does, or certainly has in the recent past.  TBH I believe it is now so common as to not be truly 'newsworthy' unless in tragic circumstances such as the owner being in some way infirm or if someone is seriously injured during a dog on dog attack.

> I have a sneaky suspicion that if it were another breed you would be saying something along the lines  'time and time again we see the same thing and it's always a 'Rottweiler'

Based on what?  Why make ill founded personal remarks?

I accept that there are badly trained dogs of all breeds and non breeds, I accept that most dog fights are all 'noise and slobber' and rarely cause injury or only a very minor nick to a muzzle or ear.  I also accept that dogs which were historically bred to fight other dogs are - in inexperienced or moronic hands - more likely to do just that and with a tenacity and level of aggression which is higher than those of other breeds.  Equally I accept that dogs historically bred to guard, hunt game, etc are also a dangerous liability without training or in the wrong hands.  I have a guard breed and know my responsibilities.  I own dogs which have the lowest level guarding instincts by careful selection of the lines.  I know very many breeders of Rottweilers, among other large breeds, who do exactly the same.

I have no prejudice again any breed - including the APBT some of which were my early dogs' best friends - I have a prejudice against the plethora of *breed mixes* designed to be status symbols and encouraged to be aggressive towards anything that moves.  I wish THAT type would be rounded up and PTS and their owners caged at HMP.

Teri

> He's your average British lager-swilling scum.
>

How do you know this...

Hi TT

I feel for you and others like you who own and love a breed that is often so abused for dubious cause.  I have every respect for people such as yourself who do their best to promote good breeding and responsible ownership of what is a very lovable breed.

I can fully understand that threads along these lines must be upsetting to you and anyone else who has a breed of dog similarly slated because of the thug element who have begun to produce them in large numbers.  I know I would be very upset were my breed to become commonly owned and bred by the wrong type of people for the same reasons.

Keep up the good work!  Some day, hopefully sooner rather than later, it will pay off.
regards, Teri

Totally agree.. I have probably said on here somewhere before. I walk with my friend and her SBT's. People step between the staffies and their kids, then throw the same child at my Dalmatian... Well sorry I know which of the dogs are the safest bet around children.
My dalmatian is terrified of the screaming things that attempt to swarm at him wherever we go. The SBT dont give a fig they live with kids...

Im a puppy walker for Guide Dogs, and Ive just read (via another forum) from someone that knows the puppy walker of Neela (the Guide Dog) that the dog has now recovered, is back guiding its owner and they have been back to the station.

WONDERFUL NEWS :) :) :)  

What a brave, loyal and well trained little dog she is.  Thank God both she and her owner are still a 'team' as well as dearest friends.
Thank you for the update.

best wishes, Teri

Teri, as much as i hate to interrupt your little rant i wasn't actually talking to you. You really didn't need to reply on other people's behalf. If any 'ill founded remarks' were made i think you'll find it was the ones that i replied to before you jumped down my throat.

Brilliant news

Thank you Tracey.

That's the problem with this forum, everyone else always knows better than the rest of us and if you dare to question something that another poster says then you get jumped on by God knows how many other people (who you were not even speaking to!).

This is precisely why i tend to only read this forum rather than contribute. The way some of the new members get jumped on here is little more than bullying in my opinion. If you don't like being questioned on forums then it's usually best if you don't make stupid blanket statements & tar all 'type' breeds with the same brush.

i started to watch it but couldnt watch it all i found it to upsetting, that poor dog and the women i have no words to say how awful i feel for them both and something like this they may never get over,
only hope this guy is caught ,  if my dog had been guilty of such a thing i would be in bits i could never run away leaving this poor lab and a blind owner after something like that, what kind of person can do this,

To flyball

Why then did you quote my comments and reply on my post?

You asked the question and I answered it. 

FTR I don't rant or jump down anyone's throat.  Perhaps were you a longer standing member and more au fait with my writing style and general experience in dogs you would be less antagonistic.  While posters need not always agree there is no need to resort to mud slinging.  Perhaps best you refer to the TOS and moderate your tone and pass on complaints you have relating to other members to Admin by PM or simply using the ignore button.

lab007  Date 20.11.09 10:59 GMT Then I suggest you read back the comments from 'flyball' .

Well if you think that was patronizing then there's really no need to read back. I think we already esatablished that you didn't have a clue about this topic when you started quoting irrelevant statistics from the other side of the world. LOL

Obviously in the USA and Canada there are billions more Pitt bull 'Types' because they are legal and also the most commonly owned breed in most states especially among the Mexican  & Hispanic nationals, ergo there will obviously be more bites attributed to them. In the UK most general hospitals do not keep records of which breeds they treat bite wounds from, so it's completely irrelevant to start throwing statistics about from a totally different country.

Sorry if you don't like me being so up front but it's not my fault if you don't understand the topic.

Teri (i can shout in bold too dear)

It was perfectly clear that it wasn't YOU i asked the question to. I can't see any 'mud slinging' so please don't make false accusations. Your experience in dogs is not relevant to the topic so i would rather you didn't use it as a stick to beat people down with.