Hi everybody,
I am writing for some advice, My boxer Nellie is 7mths and after talking with my partner we have decided to breed her when she is 2 - 21/2 yrs (not before). She is such a beautiful dog with a fantastic temperant and up till now has been good as gold (touch wood). Originally I was going to buy another puppy but she has been such a pleasure we have decided that we want to breed her and keep one of her pups, we already have family members and freinds that have already asked before if we were going to breed her as they would love one, so loving quality homes would not be an issue. The reason that I am asking for advice is I have absolutly no experiance breeding dogs and am planning to gain as much knowledge in the next couple of years as i can. I have already orderded the book of the bitch to read, but would appreciate some advice from you knowledgable breeders. I spoke to the breeder whom I bought her from today and she told me to contact all the local boxer breeders and take Nellies pedigree to see if they have a stud dog that would suit Nellie and her temprament. Is this correct? also I know family and freinds will be having most of the puppies but how do I go about getting them to sign a letter that they will let me have the puppies back if it doesnt work out? any advice would be greatly appreciated

Kind regards

Sam and Nellie

Hi Sam, We have some experienced Boxer owners on the board who will be able to give you much more specific breed advice than I can, but some things generally apply to all breeds. First of all she will need breed health checks done, particularly her heart as she is a boxer. Also your breeder has not given you very good advice. You are a novice at the breeding game, and your breeder should of pointed you in the direction of dogs that she knew to be suitable for your bitches blood lines and type. However, perhaphs she is not very experienced either, so you will have to do some homework on your girls blood lines and any known health problems in those lines. Also, keen as they may seem now, do not rely on family and friends to home your pups. One or two of them may well still be interested, but when the time comes, you will probably hear all sorts of excuses as to why they cant have a pup at that particular time. What you are talking about is a contract, that purchasers sign and agree to return the dog to you if they can no longer keep it. These you draw up yourself with whatever wording you feel suitable, however, these are NOT legally binding, and once the pup has been sold, money changed hands, and a receipt given, you cannot legal insist that the pup is returned to you. Most people, having signed the document will ask you to take the pup/dog back, but dont bank on it, I think most of us on the board have had an occasion when it hasnt worked! You are certainly doing things the right way so far, reading and learning, and giving yourself plenty of time to find a suitable stud dog. I am sure a boxer owner will post as well and be able to offer you better breed advice. Wishing you all the best.

Hi Sam and Nellie

First of all get a second opinion on your bitch just to check there are no dire constructional faults she may pass on, when complete novices we thought our first Boxer was the Bees knees I cringe when I think back. If all is well then a heart test after she is one year old is essential either through your vet or the Birtish Boxer club open show next April will most likely be holding tests at a reduced price.

Tests all being clear then you have to get out there preferably to a champ show and see which male Boxers appeal to you talk to a few people and see what they think of your bitch and her pedigree make sure the male you choose is heart tested and the owner is willing to back the stud up with lots of advice.

It might be a good idea to get hold of a copy of Boxer Quarterly this is an excellent magazine for Boxerites which comes out 3 times a year and has some very good photos of current top stud dogs and some very good articles I can get the address if you would like to e mail me.

Most of all think long and hard why you want to breed, it is very time consuming and often frustrating and ultimately you have to be prepared to put your all in to it, my life stops for 8 weeks when we have pups I have a 1 week old litter at the moment and although healthy I have been almost sleepless all week (the bitch can be very clumsy) I don't regret a minute of it but at times I do yearn for a desert Island to escape to.

On a final note please be wary of relatives and friends who so desperately want a puppy from your litter, why do they not have one already? we know people who want a pup from every litter we have had but still they are dogless it's amazing how something always crops up, when they do get around to it they are going to be so offended when I refuse them.

Good luck
Debbie

Hi Debbie

I don't know if I dare ask but ...............

"Boxer Quarterly this is an excellent magazine for Boxerites which comes out 3 times a year "

Christine

If all is ok with your girl, health wise, heart testing should be below 2, hip scoring is also a good idea in boxers the average score is 16 and all breeding bitches/studs should be well below this number, there are not many cases around but thats the way it needs to stay !!
you also need to consider - tails - something I had a lot of trouble over ! The council of docked breeds would be able to put you in touch with a suitable vet if you decide to have them done at 2 days of age, though I would think in 2 years time, we may not have to make that choice !
What area are you in ?? I have just had my first litter of boxers back in June and I enjoyed every minute of it !! This board will be able to help you loads !!

You beat me to it, Christine - was trying to work out the quarterly bit myself!

Yes the Boxer Quarterly does come out only 3 times a year confusing isn't it the first time I subscribed I was waiting for my fourth copy only to be told there wasn't one. Well you know what it's like nowadays everything is subject to cutbacks. LOL

Isn't it nice to have someone ask about breeding from their dog at least two years in the future instead of the usual two weeks. And your answers show that we are more that happy to help the sensible questioner, but is it any wonder we get a bit up tight about the person who says my 5 year old bitch is in season where can I find a stud within a 10 miles of my home. Well done I hope you find the perfect stud for your bitch and that all the hard work and study is rewarded with a beautifull litter. Ja:)kie

Hi
I'd just like to say that agree with Philippa's advice and Jackie's comments about how refreshing it is to have this Q posted seriously in advance.
Good luck with your research, I hope you find your girls *Mr Right*. :D
Nicky

Heart-testing is done regionally, unfortunately there are some breed clubs that aren't offering the heart-testing sessions at all shows.
Hopefully this won't continue and with breeders support they will keep offering this valuable service to the breed at most shows.
Boxers can be tested at any age, BUT they may only go on the heart-tested clear listing once they reach & are tested at 12 months old and over. To gain a 'clear' your dog must test a zero or one grading (zero is best).
You can buy a Heart-List which lists all the dogs that have been tested clear in the country. It lists them by sex and then has their score by their name. Heart testing cost is around the £7.50 mark, to purchase the listing is a £1, it is updated fairly regularly.
Hipscoring is done by your own vet taking x-rays and sending them away for scoring & can cost £150 upwards.
Assuming your bitch is fine health wise.
Go to as many Boxer shows as you can see as many Boxers as you can ,
make notes of the dogs that you like and research their pedigrees.
There are many regional breed clubs so you may find a show that is held reasonably near to you. (Many exhibitors and breeders travel to many shows, all over the country, for eg there is a championship show this weekend with over 200 Boxers entered at Birmingham or go to Crufts in March of next year) Get to talk to some of the exhibitors, and although some may not have much time at the show, they may only be too pleased to talk to you on a non-show day.
Some may even invite you to their kennels/homes to see their dogs in a non-show environment.
Please make sure the dog is also heart-tested and has a clear certificate.
There are a few publications that come out solely about Boxers, such as Boxer Quarterly (The next issue is due out in November 2002) The little Blue book (published by the South Western Boxer Club) these have adverts of many 'breeders/exhibitors'. The British Boxer Club is going to
do another YearBook, these are normally hardbacked and come out every 2-3 years. There are also many good Boxer books that will also help you re the breed. If you can post which part of the country you
are from then I can give you the number of the most local breed club to you.
Will you want to pay outright for a stud fee, the normal stud fees at the moment range from £150-300. If you opt for the stud dog owner to have pick of the litter then they do not expect a stud fee but a puppy of their choosing (what happens if it's the puppy you want?)
Do you want a red or a brindle stud dog? Some brindles are dominant and you will only have brindle puppies (or if both parents are flashy, i.e. lots of white markings you may also have whites too). Some brindles can carry the red gene, and so two brindle parents can produce red pups.
Boxers can be slow whelpers, some also need ceasarian-sections so vets fees can vary enormously. You need to take optimum care of the bitch before & after she whelps, also the pups when they are born.
If you have a sickly puppy it can involve 24hour round the clock attention, getting up on the hour every hour to feed etc. It's devastating when you lose that puppy too (I know I fought for 3 days solidly to keep one going, I was emotionally & physically a wreck).
Some people also mistakenly think that once the pups reach the magical 8 weeks, then they will all go to their new homes. If you are fussy where the pups go, you may have them longer than the 8 weeks. My last pup went at 12 weeks of age. The book of the bitch is a good book to have, but also remember not all bitches read it!! and have different ideas...
After all this, I have been involved with the breed 13 years now, I have owned them for 11 years and shown them for 13 years, and yes I did breed my Boxer once she'd reached 3 years old (last year), yes she had 7 pups, 6 surviving. Yes it was HARD work, but I have been very lucky to place all the pups in caring homes, and I kept one for myself. But I did not make any money whatsoever infact incurred a loss, (I did it because I wanted a pup to show & keep)
there are many individuals that think you make money from breeding,
but if you do it properly you never make a fortune and are lucky if you break even.
The easier option is to buy a puppy from a reputable breeder, trust me!
But if you want to breed your bitch try and find someone that is experienced with breeding and that will help you. Someone that can be a mentor is worth their weight in gold.
I wish you the best of luck whatever you decide,
Kindest Regards
Kirstine

Thank you all so much for your positive and helpful comments, I realize as a novice I have a hell of a lot to find out about,which is why I have started researching now.
Thankyou sauceboat for the really helpful emailn I have emailed you back by the way.
Sauceboat told me about my local boxer club and a show that is being held not to far from me in October so I am going to make my way down there and meet some nice people and do all their heads in by asking loads of questions.
The reason I have decided to breed Nellie has absolutely nothing to do with money at all, the thought never even entered my head, I had already prepared my self to cope with a loss because I spoil her so much and want the best for her, plus ive got all the tests, scans, food and equipment to buy and vets bills but im still looking forward to it. It will be such an acheivement for us both to do this and end of it I will have a new baby(ies) (still trying to convince partner to let me keep two!) who is part of my beautiful Nellie.
There are some other questions i wanted to ask,
Is it a good idea to keep to puppies from the litter and will Nellie want to play with them like she does other dogs now or will she have had enough of them after bringing them into this world? also what is the best way of getting a whelping box can you rent them? as I am only planning on using it the once.
Finally I want to give loads of hugs and kisses to all of you that have pups at the moments and big hugs to all of the mums, couldnt imagine going through it once never mind six or seven in the same pregnancy.

Once again thank you all for your kind comments and support, I know alot of you dont agree with people breeding the dogs unless they are registered breeders, but I can assure you im not taking this lightly Im even nervous about it now and its years away yet. I just want to make sure I do it right because Nellie is the most important thing in my life and if I ever have any serious doubts that it wouldnt be right for her I wont do it.

Kind regards to you all

Sam and Nellie xx

sorry I forgot to post that I am from Nottingham, sauceboat has told me about trent boxer club which is my area, So i am going to have a chat with them, I have seen some very nice looking red brindle boxers. Nellie is red with white on her chest, but she hasnt got a lot of white on her. At the end of the day the main thing is finding the right boy for her, im not really that fussy about the colour, my aim is to have healthy strong quality pups to be proud of.

Nellie, I/we are not particulaly for registered breeders, because it is only people who breed from I think at least 2 bitches or have more than one or two litters a year, :)wish I had not started this because I don't know what I'm talking about.;) What I am trying to say is that the sort of breeder who has only one litter every year or two is just as good as the registered breeder and may even be better as 'hobby' breeders are inclinded to put their heart and soul into the litter, welping and rearing in the home and starting the training and socialisation long before they sell them. Ja:)kie

Breeders are required to have a License if they breed 5 or more litters annually. It used to be if you owned more than two breeding bitches (problem was what is a breeding bitch, some councils considered any unspayed bitch over six months, even if the breeder only bred once or less a year), so the new rules brought in where supposed to make it clearer.

To my mind, apart from toy breeds, or a househol;d with several family members who are involved with different breeds, anyone breeding five litters is breeding for a market, and not to further their breed/hobby.

In general I would not want to buy from a breeder that was required to be registered, as how can they offer the needed after sales advice etc to so many puppies owners!!

To my mind, apart from toy breeds, or a househol;d with several family members who are involved with different breeds, anyone breeding five litters is breeding for a market, and not to further their breed/hobby.

Very good mail Barbara, but why exclude toy breeds? Admittedly we are likely to have far smaller numbers in our litters - I could well have 5 litters and still have less than the 9 pups you had in 1 or yours - but I woulld still consider that breeding from 5 bitches in one year is likely to be breeding for a market.

Joan
Taking the rough with the smooth

That was my point really that a pom breeder might breed several litters of one trying to get a bitch pup to keep, though I think 4 litters is still unlikely, and five or more is considered commercial by the authorities.

The Trent Boxer Club is holding their show on Sat 5th Oct
at Newark & Notts showground.
The Anglian Boxer Club also hold their Champ show at the same venue
normally towards the end of January.
Midland Boxer Club hold their Ch show at Staffordshire County Showground in February.
The British Boxer club holds its shows at the Tomlinsons Centre, Markfield, Leicester the next open show is November.

The lady that is secretary of the Trent Boxer club is everso nice
her name is Wendy Brooks, she has Jinnybrux boxers. I'm sure her e-mail
address is the affix then @ then aol.com, I'm sure she wouldn't mind
giving you advice.

Hi Kirstine

I have passed on most of the above info and arranged where they can meet Wendy as their bitch has some Jinnybrux in there so she is probably the best person to talk to. (Just want to save your typing fingers) these people by coincidence only live a few miles away from us so luckily our Trent club is right on their doorstep. Hope you have been doing as well with your girl lately, we are on maternity duty so won't be out until Trent probably see you there.
Debbie

Not too bad thanks Debbie.
She's qualified for Crufts now :)
We did this at Paignton under Reg Hill (Greentops).
You'll see a photo of Abby in the Boxer breed feature in September
in Dog World paper, I splashed out and had a colour ad.
The photo of Abby taken by Carol A Johnson was just after she had
won the daily petplan junior bitch stakes class at 3 Co's.
We are entering the Trent, so see you there, look out for the tall brindle bitch with the short 5ft 2 owner :)
Kirstine

Hi Sam
I admire you for taking time to sort everything out properly, I wish all the Q's about breeding were like yours! :D
You asked a couple more Q's in your latest post so I will give you my answers and I'm sure others will give theirs too.
Of course it is a good idea to keep puppies from your litter, most of us on here will tell you that they only ever have a litter when they want a puppy. Whether you keep 1 or 2 is up to you, your time, finances etc, but remember training 2 (particularly housetraining!) is twice as difficult as training 1 (IMHO).
I wouldn't borrow or rent a whelping box, but again it is up to you. There are disposable boxes available though so if you only want it once you could get a disposable. Alternatively you could knock something up, there are good ideas in *The Book of the Bitch*, which I'm sure you already said you have ordered.
Keep up the research and I'm sure you will be more than able to sort out all the relevant health checks for your breed, find the right dog then whelp and raise a nice litter. :D
Nicky