A Dogs Home currently have a 7 month old dog of my breed. On their website they have stated that he is very nervous and his little bewildered face is enough to make you cry!

Our club secretary has contacted them offering to help, they aren't interested. He has been castrated by them and they state he is already reserved. They feel that their behaviourists are quite capable of dealing with any issues the new owners may have. They do not seem keen to even pass on the club details.

Do you think that breed clubs and the KC should be involved when a pedigree dog is handed into a rescue?

I have a good idea of this little one's breeding and they are an AB. If the original owner signed a contract with the breeder would they have any legal rights in getting the puppy back from the rescue?

Your views please.

I've come across this so many times during my time assisting breed rescue found mostly it was a money issue for general rescues.  One dog was a known escapee microchipped to a certain charity who kept rehoming him after each escape after 5 rehomes, some £500 adoption fee's, he was passed to breed rescue as their behaviourist couldn't deal with his problems!

Only today we've rehomed a lovely 9 yr old who's been here with me since August bank holiday, to an experienced home who has had 3 rescues over 30 yrs.  They fair far better via breed rescue than general, as we keep telling them we have experienced homes waiting for any of these dogs that appear, at present we are raising funds for a male import brought in as a family pet, not sure what went wrong at point of entry but he's in quaranteen for 6mths.

Unfortunately our contracts are only legally binding once proven by a court of law and only apply to the buyer not a rescue centre.

Yes I beleive our rescue have had the same with certain organisations, and beleive only co-operative ones have been Battersea and Dogs Trust.

Personally I think breed rescue is the best way to rehome a dog.  They usually have a waiting list of experienced breed owners and have vast knowledge on how the breed 'ticks' and any special care they need.  This can be vital when a dog is confused and bewildered or when a dog has behavioural problems.  I do think there's a money motivation for general rescues, they can charge a higher price for a pedigree, whereas passing the dog to breed rescue is less likely to bring in cash :(

We have been approached a charity with one of our breed looking for a new home, we could have it for the normal adoption fee! 

Have managed to text the person I believe bred this pup. She was not aware he was in this place. She says she has contacted them, I will keep you updated with any news, but not holding my breath. As you have said, I think money is a big factor in this case.

Why would money be an issue? If I rehome a dog then a purebred dog "costs" the same as a mongrel..? I have MANY time approached breed clubs and I can ell you, I will NOT do so again. No help was forthcoming, lots of promises and hot air and then I never heard from them again.

> have MANY time approached breed clubs

It's the breed rescues you need, which often are seperate from the breed clubs.

I dare day they'll be thin on the ground here in Ireland ;). I am Ireland's only Bull Breed Rescue for example and other breed specific rescues are few and far between unless its a rare breed then I get inundated with so called helpers.

However, I always try to track down the breeder if I have enough info and see if he or she would want the dog back. It happened only rarely and if then the breeder is mostly from the UK or NI, NOT ONCE was an Irish breeder willing to take his pup/dog back.

I had a breeder once who travelled up from Limerick to see a bitch he bred and sold as a pup, the dog was still reg'd to him via MC. He couldn't remember whom he sold the bitch too and since she had a missing tooth he wasn't interested in taking her back, I was fit to be tied when he left here.

Having rehomed dogs from both breed rescues and regular rescue organisations, i feel that any organisation which finds a loving home for a dog that needs it is a worthwhile one. It has been my expierience that regular oranisations such as Dogs trust vet potential owners just as much as breed ones.

With regard to behaviorists involved with the re-homing process, i feel the breed of the dog is irrelevant, as a mongrel can have just the same behavioural problems as a pedigree dog that has been bred from a line of champions. It is the behaviourists job to help match a problem dog with an owner that they feel is suitable.

I also do not believe that money is a contributing factor as i have never seen a pedigree dog within a rescue organisation costing more than a cross breed. Im not saying it doesnt occur, however the ammount of cross breeds in rescue far outweighs the amount of pedigree ones so i really do not see how charging more for one or two pedigree dogs within thier care is going to make much difference to thier income.

> the breed of the dog is irrelevant,

The breed of a dog is very relevant as different breeds have very different drives and characteristics that a general rescue or it's workers don't know and understand.

it is much easier to match a specific breed by those and to those who understand their idiosyncrasies.

So a succesful homing is more likely.

The breed of a dog is very relevant as different breeds have very different drives and characteristics that a general rescue or it's workers don't know and understand.

All dogs have different characteristics regardless of breed, my two labs (mother and daughter) couldnt be more different.

Of course if a rescue organisation has a problem pedigree dog it would be understandable to try and find a home that has experience of that breed, however a potential owner that has dealt with dogs with behavioural problems in general would be just as suitable IMO.

> i feel the breed of the dog is irrelevant, as a mongrel can have just the same behavioural problems as a pedigree dog that has been bred from a line of champions. It is the behaviourists job to help match a problem dog with an owner that they feel is suitable.

Different breeds have different temperments and this reflects in the way a problem will be treated or spotted in the first place. Granted, a good behaviourist will be well aware that every dog, regardless of breed will require it's own, idividual plan but spotting signs in the dog that warn of a potential problem will vary greatly. For example, a non demonstrative breed (ie, mastiff, akita) may show no apparent behavioural signs as thier body language is so, very subtle it is really hard to judge them (this is just one example of possible breed-specific issues) or, on the flip side, they could be mistaken for being unfriendly simply because they do not react the same way as a waggy-tailed breed.  These type of dogs need evaluating by people that have experience of the breed.

I know I would not like to take on a Mastiff from any organisation other than a Mastiff rescue, where experienced people have had change to thoroughly evalute the dog.

I think that breed specific rescues should be contacted by general rescues, it would benefit the dogs, the potential new owners and free up spaces in the general rescues for other dogs.

Sorry, Brainless, but I take offense to that. I often taken in non Bull Breeds of different breeds/xbreeds which need different stimulus etc from the Bull Breeds. And first and foremost: a dog is a dog is a dog and their basic needs are food, exercise, TLC etc. Breed specific requirements are not on the top of that list IMHO. Many people in "general" rescue are well aware of different breeds and their requirements. One does not have to re-invent the wheel to care for a dog, regardless of its breed.

> All dogs have different characteristics regardless of breed, my two labs (mother and daughter) couldn't be more different.
>

but they still act and have the basic traits of labs.  Their drives management and training will be quite different from my elkhounds for example.

Someone used to a herding breed may find they do not understand or can deal with a sighthound.

> The breed of a dog is very relevant as different breeds have very different drives and characteristics that a general rescue or it's workers don't know and understand.

What i meant to do

Mastifflover, I took in a purebred English Mastiff from the pound a few years back. Mastiff rescue in the UK didn't want to know as the dog had OCD and would have cost them a bomb to have it fixed. I was told to contact them again once the dog has had his OP's and THEN they would take him...

breed is definatly relevant, my breed for example has a network of fosters and very very rarely do they go into kennels as they get stressed too easily.
in a foster home they are properly assesed by people who are knowledgeable with the breed and then assesed if when they are ok to be rehomed.

> I was told to contact them again once the dog has had his OP's and THEN they would take him...

:( :(

> Sorry, Brainless, but I take offense to that.

I don't understand why.

I am sure you have a pretty broad experience but am also quite sure that some breeds would have you scratching your head whereas people who have lived and breathed them would suss them out in a trice.

My comments refer more to the potential adopters though, with most going through breed rescue being experienced with the breed.

He got his OP's but he never went to Mastiff Rescue..

> in a foster home they are properly assesed by people who are knowledgeable with the breed and then assesed if when they are ok to be rehomed

This is the ideal, but there are plenty of stressed out cross breeds in rescue that are not given that option. It seems that a pedigree dog is a more worthwhile cause than a crossbreed to many people.

i woudnt say that pedigrees are more worthwhile. i dont think anyone would say that. BUT a pedigree has breed traits you know how they should be and what they may react to.
There are just too many cross breeds out there for the likes of dogs trust, rspca etc.. to get into foster. the world is not perfect by far. i would like to foster in the future when i move house
and when i do itwill be with my own breed rescue, not because they are more worthy just because thats where my heart lies.

> This is the ideal, but there are plenty of stressed out cross breeds in rescue that are not given that option. It seems that a pedigree dog is a more worthwhile cause than a crossbreed to many people.

My last dog was a cross-breed (from a rescue), I can't see how it would be possible to place him in a breed-specific rescue as he was a cross-breed, as such he had an array of traits.
I never have or ever will think anything less of mongrels/cross-breeds, but what is the harm in wanting the best for dogs when it's possible to catagorize & home them by thier natural temperments, traits, drives & needs - ie breed-specific rescue??? This makes matching up forever-homes so much easier for the dog it also frees up valuble space in the other rescues.

I have read this thread and see there is a difference of opinion, but surely the general rescues and the breed rescues should work together rather than work separately since at the end of the line it is a dog which needs a good home which is important. I do agree with those who have said some breeds have breed specific requirements which is why I get fed up of rescues who argue whose responsibilty it is to rehome the dog.

The R---A for example refuse to work with breed rescues. They say the reason is that they feel they can offer the dog to a far wider customer base than a breed rescue can, yet if they have a lot of dogs of one type they will then use the breed rescues to find homes.

One general rescue I know of rehomed a bitch from Ireland and it was later being bred from, which is not an ideal situation either and had the general rescue been prepared to work with the breed rescue the bitch would not have ended up in a commercial kennel being bred from.

Surely the question should be why is there an us or them situation? Surely all rescues working together to achieve a good outcome which is the best for the dog concerned is best?

I've got a handful of fosterhomes, all well able for the Bull Breeds I take in but only two would be able to deal with a dog with issues such as SA. Being a home run rescue I have the added bonus that I can move kennel stressed dogs into my house. However, I hate cherry picking by rescues from pound for example and I am always amazed how many rescues who had "no room" for a Staffie will jump on a litter of ickle fluffies.

But the world is not ideal and there are alot of politics going on behind the scenes.

> surely the general rescues and the breed rescues should work together

That would be perfect.

Im not saying that cross breeds should be placed in breed rescues, that sort of defeats the object of a 'breed rescue'.

Of course there is nothing wrong with wanting to help the breed that you love. But i dont see that there is any problem with pedigree dogs being in general rescue organisations. My main point was that rescue organisations have seen enough dogs with behavioral problems to be able to find them the right (hopefully) forever home. Of course this is not always possible with any organisation breed or general and mismatching will sometimes occur.

> I had a breeder once who travelled up from Limerick to see a bitch he bred and sold as a pup, the dog was still reg'd to him via MC. He couldn't remember whom he sold the bitch too and since she had a missing tooth he wasn't interested in taking her back, I was fit to be tied when he left here.

:-(  :-(

I'm surprised that you haven't been arrested!

Don't know how I would have kept my hands off him! 

How the heck do you keep your opinions to yourself when such a ******* comes to see the dog?

I think the 72 yro woman who hired a TAXI to drive all the way from Belfast to my neck of the woods to get her stolen Springer back made more than up for @(*& like him

Our local rehome centre had a litter of shar pei puppies. As far as I know they didnt contact the breed rescue group but I think should have done.

>My main point was that rescue organisations have seen enough dogs with behavioral problems to be able to find them the right (hopefully) forever home.

You miss the point that I have been trying to make, some breeds may not show they have problems to anybody other than a person with a LOT of experience in that breed, or vice-versa some breeds may appear to have a behavioural problem when infact it is the nature of the breed, especially in the non-demonstrative breeds.

There are many types of behaviourist, the sort that would recomend a short-sharp correction to the lead would come unstuck when tying to assess my dog, a dog that will not be bullied (even by methods that people think is training) and he wont be told what to do by somebody who is wary of him or is cross. If my dog was left in a rescue, he wouldn't do a thing he was told to do unless it was a person with experience of handling a dog like him (giant & 'imposing' personality), he would probably be written-off due to 'behavioural' problems. Allthough he learns quickly with food motivations, he will steal food from anybody that isn't confidant around him if he was on his own (trying to fake confidence doesn't work, you have to be fully relaxed too). He would basically come accross as an untrained loony of a dog, a complete liability to the public - unless he was assessed by somebody with experience of his breed. He is a great family dog, great with kids, great with cats, loving (in a quite mastiff way, not like other dogs) fantastic on the lead, friendly with strangers and other dogs  - however none of this would show unless he was being handled by an experienced 'mastiff' person (or person with experience of giant dogs of his confidance levels). He doesn't have behavioural problems, he just needs handling as a Mastiff. He wouldn't be mismatched he would be misjudged and PTS.

R......A will work with some rescues after a lot of digging, last year they had a springer that they had rehomed 3 or 4 times that bounced everytime, we got in touch as a breed specific rescue and offered to take her, they checked us out thoroughly, references etc and the dog came to us, she has now been in her home a year, and she won't be coming back

The breed of a dog is very relevant as different breeds have very different drives and characteristics that a general rescue or it's workers don't know and understand.

it is much easier to match a specific breed by those and to those who understand their idiosyncrasies.

So a succesful homing is more likely.

That's all very true, but i think the poster you replied to wasnt talking about general staff, but experienced behaviorists.

As long as the behaviourist is skilled in the areas you mention, which is quite possible, then that isnt *alwasy* a problem.

Im not against general rescues working with breed rescues and vice versa.

But if it doesnt happen, it doesnt alwasy mean that the rehoming can't be successful.

It depends on the rescue and staff involved.

The case in the OP, as described, seemed successful to me.

Battersea and Dogs Trust do work with breed rescues quite well, as did i when i was in rescue.
But sometime you get the occasional breed rescue which isnt very pleasant or good at their job (of rehoming), so it works both ways.

Unfortunately if a behaviourist doesn't know a certain breeds traits they can do a lot of harm and not read a dog properly.

I think that Breed Rescues should be the first people to be contacted, then if they are of no use you don't go there again.

Just to add, re the OP's example.
I understand there may be some legal/moral issues re the original owner not contacting the breeder before rehoming.
I agree this is wrong
However, now the rescue has said the dog is reserved, has a home, and they have capable behaviourists, i would make the assumption, until prove otherwise, that this is good for the dog concerned.

When i worked for rescue, i was given several KC registered dogs that came with pedigree papers, on many occasions i asked the owner if they had contacted the breeder, to be told they had and the breeder couldnt help.
The same applied when i called the breeder myself.

On another occasion i rang a Labrador breed rescue to help with homing a very strong, highly untrained, lunging  hyper Labrador.
Who needed a strong person to keep hold of his lead when he lunged, and someone who would have a bit of experience with training and delaing with his problems.
She agreed to come to us and meet him, then went away looking for a home agreeing to our profile.
Then rang up telling us they had arranged a home wqith an elderly couple without the right experience!
Now, im not prejudiced against homing to the elderly, but it wasnt the arrangment.
I politely said i didnt feel this appropriate, it wasnt what we agreed about the dog, and it wouldnt be fair or safe on this couple, to be told I ought to accept her advice as the Lab breed rep.
I said thanks for coming down, but we will sort it ourtselves from now on, and I found him a home quite well myself, as I had done in hundreds of occasions before.

Some breeds, ie, Lab, Staffies, Rotties, Shepherds, Jacks, Greys, Whippets, Spaniels, Collies, etc, etc, come into general rescues very often.
This means that general rescues deal with just as many of these breeds as the breed rescues themselves, meaning the staff have just as much experience of them.

I, myself, specialised in Akitas at my rescue, and Belgian rescue even sent Belgians to us, as my collegue specialsied in them.

So, all in all, for the various rescues I have mentioned, its not that black and white as in 'breeds for breed rescues and mixes for general rescues'

Unfortunately if a behaviourist doesn't know a certain breeds traits they can do a lot of harm and not read a dog properly.


Agreed, but how do you know they dont?
Like i have just said above, general rescues can get countless numbers of certain breeds and/or have staff that specialize in certain breeds themselves.

And its not always a given that the staff or volunteers at 'every' breed rescue understands their dogs well enough or make the right decsions or have good practice. (i gave example above)

So its not an automatic given that for all breeds breed rescue equals correct and general rescue equals incorrect.

> This is the ideal, but there are plenty of stressed out cross breeds in rescue that are not given that option. It seems that a pedigree dog is a more worthwhile cause than a crossbreed to many people.

The thing is breed rescues are supported by the breeds owners and responsible breeders, the same responsible breeders take care of their own if a rescue situation arises.

All breeders/owners of crossbreeds or pedigrees should take lifelong responsibility for them.  Sadly I have yet to hear of any breeders of crossbreeds stepping up to the plate for the lives they allowed to be born, and the same applies to the most commercially exploited purebreds too.

If all breeders and owners took responsibility there would be very few dogs in actual rescues, though obviously owners and breeders would be privately re-homing, the only ones in actual rescue would be those where owner and breeders were untraceable or legitimately unable to take responsibility (death illness etc).

In an ideal world rescues would simply be referral agencies putting the owners/breeders of dogs needing homes together with vetted adopters, and in fact many breed rescues work this way with very few dogs going into kennels.

Abandoning an animal is actually against the law so owners who fecklessly do this should be prosecuted, fined and ordered to pay rescue costs for their animal.

It isn't that the pedigrees are more worthwhile just that there are people willing to take responsibility for their own, so why do some rescues not allow them to do this and concentrate their efforts on the dogs no-one is taking responsibility for.

> I also do not believe that money is a contributing factor as i have never seen a pedigree dog within a rescue organisation costing more than a cross breed.

When we got our mongrel from Manchester Dogs Home crossbreeds cost £50 and Pedigree dogs were £70 (2003)

I run a breed rescue and its Labradors we rehome about 400 a year from our own kennels.
Its a tough question really I do not breed much now mainly because of rescue  but do still own a decent  show dog
and am still Judging.
If any dog comes in here with a  KC pedigree  I will out of courtesy give the breeder  a call we had a lovely young 9 week old lab in last year  luckily the paperwork was with the pup and I rang the breed club and contacted the breeder who was in fact the breed club Sec but was on holiday but a friend came to collect the pup and the breeder was very grateful as she had done all the checks etc.. before selling the pup and was devastated.
Sometimes dogs come in without papers so we do not know the breeder and sometimes sadly the breeder doesnt want to know either.
I think the big charities like Dogs trust and RSPCA are coming round to liasing with breed rescue well some branches are.
Also the dogs homes often identify a breed wrong  describing one dog as a black Airedale which was in fact a Schnauzer :(

I spoke to the Dogs Home myself this morning. It turns out that the pup is still available as the people who had reserved him were found not to be suitable. I offered my help in any way but was told they had been homing dogs for 70 years etc etc. Apparently someone,through the breed club, was coming to look at him today. Lets hope he has a happy ending.

With so many dogs going into rescue and so many of those rescues having to turn dogs away as they have no places left I would have hoped that rescue centres would be only too glad to let breed specific rescues take dogs of their breed. Surely freeing up a space for another dog should take priority and thus helps out two dogs that need new homes for whatever reasons.

My two rescues - one a pedigree dog and the other a crossbreed - both came from a national rescue and I have to say that they were not at all interested in trying to locate the original breeder even though all papers had been handed over with the 9 week old puppy and informing breeder would have been an easy thing to do. I was given the very distinct impression that pedigree dogs were of a lesser priority than crossbreeds and any attempts on our behalf to find out the breeder were given very short shrift. The rescue involved charge the same adoption fee whatever the size or breed of dog.

Agreed, but how do you know they dont?

Due to sadly a number of my breed being ruined by supposedly good behaviourists.

> I have to say that they were not at all interested in trying to locate the original breeder

I know it must be disheartening for rescues as often the dogs breeders are not worthy of the name, but how sad if they don't even try, as I would be devastated if one of mine were re-homed without them contacting me, it is the reason I have every pup permanently and visibly identified before they leave me.

I think pups being identified and traceable to the breeder be they accidental deliberate pedigree or cross should be law.

Maybe fewer people woudl breed casually and seel to anyone with the cash if they knew they may be called upon to help later.

I know it must be disheartening for rescues as often the dogs breeders are not worthy of the name, but how sad if they don't even try, as I would be devastated if one of mine were re-homed without them contacting me, it is the reason I have every pup permanently and visibly identified before they leave me.

I think pups being identified and traceable to the breeder be they accidental deliberate pedigree or cross should be law.

What really saddened/annoyed me is that the manager from the rescue commented on how the original purchasers of the puppy had researched the breed before buying and bought from an allegedly good breeder and then decided they couldn't cope with a puppy and it was easier for them to take him to the local branch of the rescue than back to the breeder whom I understand was a goodly distance away. I couldn't trace the breeder at all and now believe that the date of birth we were given for him is not actually the correct one as we have traced all breeders who had a litter on that date and none of them sold to the origianl owner ( obviously I wasn't given their name but I do know the area they lived in as one of the comments made at the rescue was " they must have had more money than sense to travel all the way from ****** to buy a puppy that they then decide they don't want" ). The rescue were very anti pedigree breeders and the papers they were given with the pup were never allowed to be viewed by ourselves.

My vet also thought the pup may have been a couple of weeks older than we were told - although he was quite a large puppy anyway with absolutely enormous paws :-)

> The rescue were very anti pedigree breeders and the papers they were given with the pup were never allowed to be viewed by ourselves.
>
>

That is so double standard, they are against pedigree breeders, and yet do not even allow them to do the responsible thing and take their pup back.

> Maybe fewer people woudl breed casually and seel to anyone with the cash if they knew they may be called upon to help later.

I agreee I think it might cut down a lot of the breding going on for the wrong reasons.

There is a general rescue near me, who refused to allow a breed rescue to help them find a home for a flatcoat they had in there. So I applied and said I was not connected to a breed rescue, but did have another dog at home, they refused to let me have the dog, their excuse was I lived too far away from the rescue centre, I am about 10 miles away. A friend of mine applied and although he lived 60 odd miles from the centre he was allowed to take the dog!

Not all general rescues are like this and many work really hard to help any dog in need, but it would be better if they and breed rescues would put politics aside and the issue of who has the best/most qualified behavourist and worked together.

Knowing rescue centres in the UK are full to bursting, I often wonder why rescues import dogs from Ireland. Should we perhaps consider rehoming our own unwanteds then when our rescue centres are empty rescue dogs from from other places?

Now I'll duck! lol

Having rehomed dogs from both breed rescues and regular rescue organisations, i feel that any organisation which finds a loving home for a dog that needs it is a worthwhile one. It has been my expierience that regular oranisations such as Dogs trust vet potential owners just as much as breed ones.

Excellent point!

It doesnt surprise me that many on here have such a low opinion of general breed rescues but where would we be without them?  For the more popular breeds such as labs etc could the breed rescue actually handle them all, coming in day after day?  Yes some breeds have certain traits but surely cross breeds are all different as well and a good all breed rescue will be able to recognise many traits from many breeds not just one so surely that gives them even more expertise, not a stick to beat them with.

As an aside if any rescue contacted any breeder of my breed to send them back I would be horrified!

> As an aside if any rescue contacted any breeder of my breed to send them back I would be horrified!

why surely any decent breeder would want their pups back to know where they are and are going.

> surely cross breeds are all different as well

actually cross breeds traits will not be as heightened, unless of course you have a cross of two breeds that are very similar in traits and drives, two terriers, two retrievers etc.  Otherwise the traits in a mix tend to be toned down.  So a one size fits all approach is more likely to be OK.

I expect that is why you see few collie crosses working sheep, gundog with non gundog mix doing will at gundog work etc.