I've put this in behaviour as it's a human behaviour issue.

Yesterday morning OH and I took all 3 beasties out together. Our boy has behavioural issues, but is getting better. Anyway, we'd had a very pleasant walk and were just leaving the park, the exit is via an alleyway/footpath between 2 houses, so you can't see who's coming in or out. OH had our boy and I was following with the 2 girls, when out of nowhere came a youngish cocker spaniel - I would guess at around 12/18 months. He wasn't on a lead and as he came face to face with OH and our boy he just went into one, growling and barking. Our boy didn't initially react, but when the other dog kept up, he decided I'm not taking that, so he then started lunging and trying to have a go back - the owner finally turned up after what seemed like ages, but was probably about 30-45 seconds. She didn't have a lead, so grabbed his collar and pulled him out of the way. OH said he'd seen this dog yesterday when he was walking the girls, it came into the park a good 5 minutes before it's owner.

I think the cocker just panicked - he came around the corner and was face to face with 3 Rotties. But could you imagine the papers if my boy had been able to retaliate, it would be vicious Rottweiler savages fluffy spaniel. Nobody would believe that the little dog started it. We were quite proud of our boy, yes he did react, but he calmed down really quickly after, 6 months ago, he would have been on edge and highly reactive for the rest of the day.

I shall now step off my soapbox - rant over.

there's nothing that annoys me more than people who have their dogs off the lead and let them run off or over to my dogs. it really is irresponsible as they have no idea how my dogs will react. 

> Nobody would believe that the little dog started it.

I would believe you & I'll join you in ranting!

I get this sort of thing alot, a dog comes face to face with Buster (English Mastiff), gets intimdated by his size (I think thats what it is - Buster is always friendly & willing to play/greet, not wanting to dominate anything) so starts barking/growling/snapping. Buster has a very long fuse and just takes it all as a bit of fun, if he reacts atall.

We've met a dog in similar cicumstances. There is a long, narrow, overgrown alley that leads into a field. I was in the field with Buster, on-lead, just about to leave via the alley when a young male lab came  strutting down it. I moved well clear of the opening to give the dog space to come in, but he headed towards us, snarling A few moments later, the owner strolled through and once she saw what her dog was heading towards (Buster), she had the usual reaction of horror ( :( ) and screamed at her dog. The dog ignored her and strutted right up to Buster, still snarling, I shouted out - 'Don't panick, my dog is friendly, all he'll do is a big play-bow and maybe jump up & down wanting to play'. The owner rushed to grab her dog, just as Buster did his 'signature' play-bow, (LOL, it is an impressive sight) which sent slobber flying, some of it splatted down the front of the other owners coat

I was mortified at the slobbering, but I do think the sheer panick she felt may have taught her a lesson- keep your dog on-lead unless you can see what is around!

I do really sympathise with you, it's not on how dogs are permitted to run on ahead or lag so far behind thier owners they might as well be alone. You are right, the bigger dog will naturally get the blame by most :(

Nobody would believe that the little dog started it.

I Believe you to having a Rottie myself iv had quite alot of smaller cutie looking dogs come up having a go at my boy ,
one owner an old lady has meet my OH a few times on our local green and she smiles happily and tells us that her boys highly strung , when he's their bitting and brarking after my boy she seems to think its ok and never has him on a lead, good job my boys not so highly stung i say to her , my boy normally runs from her little one as hers it quite yappy and nasty , what really gets me is the women wants to stand with you having a chat while her dogs going for my boy my worry is if her boy did hurt mine then he could retaliate and could hurt her dog badly but she seems to think its fine for her dog to do that, i have warned her that its not good for her dog to be doing this but she smiles saying oh he's alright, me and OH now try to avoid her whenever we go out now as it to much of a risk,
my boy is good and gets on ok with other dogs but this one im worried if her dog keeps attacking mine then oneday my boy may decide enough is enough and i just dont want to risk it and i find it totally nuts that the women would risk it herself,

> Nobody would believe that the little dog started it.

I believe you too!  I had an off lead staffy with very stiff posture come up to my 2 the other week in the park when it was dusk.  the owner was ignoring his dog and was standing a fair distance away speaking to people in the park so I shouted to him to get his dog back as my staff was starting to react.  My rott was doing his usual devil dog impersonation (not!) and was just standing looking vacant.  The boy shouted back in an irked tone that his dog was ok and wouldn't bite but came running quick enough when I shouted back that my staffy would which is why she was on the lead. 

I totally sympathise with you as this for me has to be the worst bit of dog ownership - dealing with other owners!  I just don't understand why people don't pick up on the visual cue that some people choose to keep their dogs on lead for a variety of reasons.

Thanks guys, at least I'm not alone. My boy is not a good example of the breed, my girls are! We do everything we can to try and rehabilitate the beastie, and he is improving, it's just things like this can set him back. It's bad enough getting the looks we do walking a muzzled Rottie, (most of the time he just wants to play, but we can't take that risk) people don't acknowledge that you're actually being a responsible dog owner.
Tx

You are not on your own, I could get on my soap box everyday about irresponsible dogs owners. Thinking that their dogs behaviour is acceptable and ok when it is not. The sad thing is it makes walks hard for us when we respect others and you don't get that in return.

I am still shaking with fury at what happened in the park with my dog yesterday & today. Yesterday my placid GR got set upon by another dog. No harm done but owner didn't see a problem with what had happended. OH was furious. Today a dog came from no where, teeth baring, tale up, heckles up and growling. Owner was sitting in the boot of his car at the top of the field.Shocking!

I am not a strong enough person to say anything to the owners but I wish I could as sometimes I think my dog has pick on me written on his head !!!

xxxx

Hi
I know exactly what you mean!
I take my Goldie boys to the local racecourse some days.   They run around without a lead, sniffing around playing and doing their 'doggie things' and Ive never had a problem with them.
Some mornings there is a man there with three small dogs.   One he keeps on a lead the other two just run amok.   One is a young Staffie and the other a Scottie.   The Staffie and Scottie rush to my dogs and jump at them and then the dogs jump at me.   The Staffie jumps really high and has hit me in the face and muddies my clothes - it drives me bananas.   Usually Ive not said anythin g but hurried mine back to the car.   Last time though I told him to call his dogs as the dogs and I were completely muddied and he said was 'you should be wearing old clothes to walk youd dogs' and it 'pisses me off when you whistle for your dogs'.   I was blazing mad!
So next time I went there, I took one of those spray canasters, 'Pet Corrector' and sprayed it straight at the dogs face as it jumped at me.   Couple of sprays and they turned tail.  The man had just walked off.   I must admit that it felt great to have found a way to put a stop to it.
M

I can sympathize with all the bad stories especially when its someone letting there dog off time and time again at the same place.  However you must all have had a time when your usually obedient dog does not come back and runs of I know I have when Henry was younger. I think sometimes things can get blown out of proportion.

Although the dogs jumping up and muddying you time and time again would get really annoying:)

The worry is this can actually set your dog back, and undo or at least caus a set back in the hard work you have done.

I had huge problems with my dalmatian dog. I have worked so hard and for months and months he had been an absolute star, I was ,almost, beginning to stop worrying about him. Last week we were on the field and from nowhere appeared a group of men and their kids with remote cars, the ones that you have to put petrol etc in.so really fast and loud. It was really upsetting all the dogs. One mans collie just went. I asked the group, so nicely, to just give us a couple of minutes to get past. Which they did.Then one of them drove the car right up to my dals hind legs. Accidently I hope....Bang work undone. My boy was pulling and straining and went for the first dog we saw. An 18 week of Flat coat. I was absolutley mortified!!
Thankfully he has recovered and is back to his new star status.

bless him bet he was scared to death

>>The worry is this can actually set your dog back

Agree entirely. Luckily he doesn't seem to have reverted to his former ways, although we are all too aware that they can be lurking just beneath the surface. Which is such a shame as he never gets to have a run around off lead and play with some of his friends - as you never know who/what is around the corner. We take him to hydrotherapy now to try and burn off some of his energy.

Beastie just doesn't like his routine upset, any changes can make him edgy (like a black sack of rubbish dumped in "our" alleyway), which makes him more "reactive". OH wonders whether he is actually autistic - not sure whether you can get autistic dogs, but we have an autistic nephew who has surprisingly similar reactions when his routine is changed.

Why is it always narrow blind paths or overgrown alleys that lead onto dog walking fields!

We have been in our new apartment complex for about five weeks now, and people are constantly letting their dogs run without leashes. I'm always so nervous the dog will charge up on us and I don't know how my two (Weim and Great Dane) will react. The Dane barks when he's excited and the charging dog might take that as aggression. It's aggravating.

Can I add something else to this rant? Our complex provides doggie doo-doo bags for our use as well as a trash can. The sign clearly says "Please just take one," but today at lunch I saw a woman with her tiny little Dachshund take at least 20 bags! She just kept pulling them out and stuffing them into her jacket. I didn't say anything but I wanted to yell "Really?! Save some for the rest of us!"  Baggies are cheap and it ticks me off that stupid dog owners do stuff like that.

I'm done.  :)

Better than poop left . But most don't leave the house without the supply of little black bags, put some in her xmas stocking.

> However you must all have had a time when your usually obedient dog does not come back and runs of I know I have when Henry was younger.

|I think  most of us are understanding when it comes to a dogs 'one-off' behaviours, Iv'e certainly met plenty of dogs that the owner has siad are friendly, but as a one-off they have a go at my dog - you can tell by the shocked reaction from the owner that they weren't expecting a negative behaviour.
I think we all also accept that all dogs can make a mistake & ignore a re-call at least once in thier life (exaclty the reason why my dog is never permitted to be loose other than on a long-line), but we have all met those owners that are blatently without care or thought for others or even thier own dogs safety and it's these owners that get my back up.

> Better than poop left

Yes indeed!!
Grrr, I know this has been 'done to death' but only yesterday I saw an older woman (60ish) happily amble past her own loose dog, completely ignoring the steaming pile it had left in the grass. Granted it was a rainy, miserable day, but I managed to lug a big bag of Buster-poop around with me (he did one early in the walk - I'm not in the habbit of taking them out with me from the house, LOL), so I'm sure it wouldn't have been too much effort for her to carry her dogs poop, she wasn't even carrying a lead so she did have both hands spare.

a man on my road allways use to walk his wimeriner off lead, the amont of times i allmost ran her over when i was reversing my car out in the mornings as the nabours wall blocks our view so i couldnt see her untill she ran out from behind me, the man would be way off down the road still. she use to rip up peoples rubbish bags as well and one time she got open the bag from my rabbits hutches and left a trail of woodshavings, hay and poop all the way down the road, (bin men wernt impressed) and she would jump up at my nabours window getting mud everywhere! eventualy i had a word to his wife about it and she soon put a stop to it.

Quick update - spaniel owner now brings her dog into the park on a lead!!! Maybe being confronted with 3 fully grown Rotties made her think "what if". She does let him/her off once in the park, which I don't have an issue with, my boy is fearful/aggressive but that's something we're dealing with, it's the being confronted with a scared barking dog on the street that was the issue.

T

Tadsy,

I'm glad you're having good results with your dogs changing behviour. Sorry to jump on the thread here, but i'm desperate to deal with my own dogs fear aggression. Can you tell me what's working for you?

Many thanks,

Ralphiemum

I have a little Spaniel puppy, everyone wants to pet her and I keep her on a lead at all times as she's not trained to recall well enough yet. But one couple with an older male cocker, bent down to pet her and their dog tried to attack mine for stealing it's owners. I don't mind people petting her it's good for socialization but they should have put their dog on a lead if it's possessive before stroking mine. Luckily it was a back off attack and no harm came, mine wasn't really put off at all, but I hope they think about it before petting someone else's dog again.

Another rant...
My mum lives on an old rural farm with her 9 year old cocker. She also keeps chickens. There is a footpath running through her land, although it doesn't go near the chickens or the pond that holds my dads 30 year old koi carp there are signs all over saying 'please keep your dog on a lead'. Still, one day she had a man come to the front door, a dead chicken in his hands because his dogs had been running loose through her land and strayed as far as to get to the chickens. Another time my mum was watching from the garden as a man, his dog (off lead) and his two children strayed from the foot path to throw rocks into the pond. She asked the man to return to the foot path and put his dog on a lead and he said 'I don't see why I should, we're not doing any harm'. She was furious but there is nothing she can do about it. She can't make them leave even though they were trespassing and causing potential harm to the fish.

Some people really tick me off!!!

Now i've heard of this with my friends farm and her sheep/lambs which have been attacked by dogs off lead, apparently its the 'right to roam' law whatever that is

buy some geese.  large ones.  they really put people off lingering or straying off footpaths.

Funny you should say geese, she is looking for some as she had 3 ages ago and people wouldn't even get out the car with them around. At one point she had a pet goose that lived in the house with her, but it would attack my dad every time he got home from work so she had to put it back out with the others. This goose was so smart though, every day when it heard my dad's car coming into the drive it's head would cock to one side and then it would hide behind the porch. As soon as he got half way between the car and the house Dumpy would fly out and attack him. What made it funnier was my dad trying to make himself louder and larger than Dumpy, as you should with geese. They really can be terrifying.

I've 4 dogs and get peeved when someone allows their "sweet, little doggy" to rush over and pounce in my dog's faces, whether it be in a playful or non-playful manner.  I've got 1 girly (used very nicely for teaching puppies their manners!), who will growl if an uninvited visitor comes into her nose space.  Owners of "sweet, little doggies" don't always appreciate this, and quite often fail to see that it is actually themselves at fault.  Firstly, they have been inconsiderate and stupid enough to allow their dog to rush around doing whatever it wants, and secondly they have a dog who is completely lacking in doggy manners. Sounds like your Rottie did very well.  Me?  Well, I would have had words with the owner pointing out their failures (not always appreciated by owner!).  Feel free to step on your soapbox ... it does you good to have the occasional rant!

> Another rant...
> My mum lives on an old rural farm with her 9 year old cocker. She also keeps chickens. There is a footpath running through her land, although it doesn't go near the chickens or the pond that holds my dads 30 year old koi carp there are signs all over saying 'please keep your dog on a lead'. Still, one day she had a man come to the front door, a dead chicken in his hands because his dogs had been running loose through her land and strayed as far as to get to the chickens. Another time my mum was watching from the garden as a man, his dog (off lead) and his two children strayed from the foot path to throw rocks into the pond. She asked the man to return to the foot path and put his dog on a lead and he said 'I don't see why I should, we're not doing any harm'. She was furious but there is nothing she can do about it. She can't make them leave even though they were trespassing and causing potential harm to the fish.
>

I understood that even under the right to roam.. once you step "off" the public foot path you are then trespassing. May be wrong... There is a walk we do regularly the foot path goes through a garden. the people living have always greeted us. They have been forced to put up fencing either side of the path to stop such incidences as your Mother is tolerating ,which have only started happening in recent months..Some one told her it was her choice to live there and his right to walk there,  if she did not like it she should , well you can probably guess the rest..

Geese work every time in my experience!!

> I understood that even under the right to roam.. once you step "off" the public foot path you are then trespassing.

Depends where you live. In Scotland the right to roam gives you the right to walk just about anywhere, including through fields with livestock and crops (as long as the crops are under a certain height). You don't have to stick to footpaths, your dogs don't have to be on leads. Houses and commercial properties are given a certain amount of 'private' land round them - everything else is open to all.

"What it is not is right to walk anywhere you like, the new right of access on foot only applies to mapped areas of "open country" as defined by the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000(CRoW). This is currently mountain, moor, heath land, down land and registered common land... " not that specific is it?

People must have the right to walk off the footpath, because she has a massive lake, no where near the footpath, and she has been forced to put up those bright orange rings, incase trespassers fall in and drown.
Maybe if trespassers drown it would serve as a warning to other people. She did think about putting signs up saying 'Warning Malaria' or something. But maybe that is illegal.
What happens if your geese attack someone though?
Is there a dangerous geese act?

geese are historically viewed as nervous little beasts hense saying'won't say boo to a goose'... and they are not viewed as dangerous because they aren't.  fact fair number of people find them frightening is nothing to do with their danger level!   must admit it can hurt if you get bitten but its not dangerous in same way as large guard dog could be. 

>geese are historically viewed as nervous little beasts hense saying'won't say boo to a goose'..

Actually that's because stratled geese will come at you with wings outstretched and flapping, heads low and with neck stretched out, hissing and honking furiously! They make excellent guards because of the noise they make when there are intruders; they won't hurt you (they might peck but it's not particularly painful) but they really put the wind up you! They'll certainly beat up a dog and send him away with his tail between his legs.

> They make excellent guards because of the noise they make when there are intruders; they won't hurt you (they might peck but it's not particularly painful) but they really put the wind up you! They'll certainly beat up a dog and send him away with his tail between his legs

And a good number of people too, as I say they work every time in my experience. My aunt had them on her farm we always knew when there were visitors on their way. I learnt to run pretty fast too, one Betty Boo terrified the life out of us kids! Aunt used to tell us if we were naughty she would get Betty to sort us out!

Sorry RAMBLING a bit, but I suppose that is back on topic then ; -)

She did think about putting signs up saying 'Warning Malaria' or something. But maybe that is illegal.
But she would be allowed to put sign up saying "Warning, grass contaminated with Taraxacum Officinale!". I have hear it work as most people don't know that Taraxacum Officinale is simply dandelion.

Vera

> Taraxacum Officinale

Love it!!!

> it is not is right to walk anywhere you like, the new right of access on foot only applies to mapped areas of "open country" as defined by the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000(CRoW

NOT in SCOTLAND. In Scotland you can exercise your access rights over most land and inland waterways. Including mountains, moorland, woods and forests, grasslands, fields where crops are growing, paths and tracks, rivers and lochs, the coast and most parks and open spaces. You can use these areas at any time of the day or night.

> geese are historically viewed as nervous little beasts hense saying'won't say boo to a goose'

"Goose" was a term used to describe a simpleton, silly or foolish person.  Thus one that would not say boo to a goose (simpleton)  is a very shy or timid person.

Not sure of the origin or reason.  I'm not sure that we'd perceive geese as stupid today.  Perhaps when they were more common as food and regularly seen in a domestic context they may have seemed unintelligent or foolish?

I certainly wouldn't willingly walk through a flock of domestic geese with dogs, they give me the heebies!! :)