I am not specifically referring to this information exchange, but in general.  Some people seem to think they have more of a right to breed dogs than all the "Stupid People" /sarcasm

Of course dog breeding is a complicated matter in the beginning, but it's hardly rocket science.  Also, anybody with an ounce of common sense whether they have bred before or not realises very quickly that producing poor specimens will not only get you a bad reputation, but the animals will not sell.   How are new breeders supposed to learn and improve with all this snotty nonsense.   I am a relative beginner,  and within 15 minutes of using the Internet I found the top ten illnesses my dog is likely to have.  What tests have to be carried out in order to pass as suitable breeding animals, average gestation period, and the history of the breed

Quantum Mechanics is very complicated indeed.   Dog breeding isn't.

some people just dont care what they produce, and just put a male and a female together and give the resulting puppies a cutesy name.  Not all dog breeders are snobby, but we know what we are doing, and are tired of these BYB and puppy mills producing pups when we are showing, testing, travelling hours (or even importing semen).  Then we are up several hours waiting for the pups to be born, and then dont know what sleep is for the next 8 weeks. 

We have a right to be a bit upset.  We have a right to be fed up with all the nonsense.  Because when something goes wrong, its the ones that half hazardly throw two dogs together, or buy from a puppy mill/BYB they are wanting our help.  And because we care for dogs, we give it.  But it doesnt make it any easier. 

>producing poor specimens will not only get you a bad reputation, but the animals will not sell.

But they do. You only have to look at the result of puppy farmers to see that there will always be people daft enough to buy any puppy, no matter how sickly, because they feel sorry for it.

> but the animals will not sell. 

Says it all really.

As a new breeder, I think we'll let this post go, believe me after a couple of years your opinions will change completely, you have to run around the block a few times to see what is going on. ;-)

No-one is saying dog breeding is "rocket science" (although in my breed it sure feels as if it is getting that way!) but those breeders who care passionately about their breed have every right imo to deter the sort of people who decide to breed their pet dog with the dog up the road (with no health testing done etc) because they think it might be nice to have a litter and hopefully pay for next years holiday. There are some very very ignorant folk out there breeding dogs but still manage to sell their pups.
Honestly, I've lost count of how many times I've seen Ads for pups for sale in my breed whereby the "breeder" cannot even spell the colour of the pups properly - eg. referring to them as "tan and white" or "blenham" in the case of "Blenheim". If someone cannot even be bothered to learn the correct terminology for a coat colour, what hope is there of them taking serious breed health issues on board ?

No disrespect to the poster but I think you need to expierience breeding under the carefull eye of a mentor before you poor scorn on those of us who go to great lenghths to do things right. Yes you can do a lot of reserch on the net but it will not prepare you for the heartaches and tribulations of Proper dog breeding. The majority of good carefull breeders of pedigree dogs are far more interested in producing the best examples of thier breed free from any illness or disease than "breeding" puppies. Only a long learning period will tell you which are the best, who to avoid etc.. Just choosing a dog and bitch with good hips themselves may not ensure your pups are free from HD, the ansestors and what they produced in thier pups is just important. Nothing or no-one can prepare you for the long expected litter that dies at birth, sometimes with Mum. Or the litter that seems to be growing well only to be re-absorbed! And what about the litter that is still with you at 12 weeks as you have not got any people waiting for the pups? I hate to dissolusion you but breeding good dogs and "dog breeding" are miles apart. I am not being snooty and will happily mentor one of my puppy byers if they wish to become more involved in the breed but if they just want to "Breed" for no other reason and will not learn then yes I can be  offhand (Just to add that I vet my byers and would hopefully not have this scenario happen)
Try approaching your prospective breeder and telling them you wish to learn more with a view to getting more involved with the show/work side of things first, and  you may find people are less Snooty that way! Breeding good quality dogs is something that needs to be learnt from the bottom up, like most other things! No doubt I could learn all about building houses on the web but I woulod need long years of learning from an expert before I would be any good at it...brreding nice dogs is just the same.
Aileen

Also, anybody with an ounce of common sense whether they have bred before or not realises very quickly that producing poor specimens will not only get you a bad reputation, but the animals will not sell.

How I wish this was true.

Good post.  I am a breeder and not new to it but certainly always learn more all the time.
I find people looking for puppies are totally clueless and often get the "its just for a pet I dont care about health tests, pedigree etc etc" and
its enough to make me pull my hair out. 

Quantum Mechanics is very complicated indeed.   Dog breeding isn't. mediocre breeding is perhaps easy BUT breeding outstanding dogs, that are healthy with superb temperaments, eradicating something genetically from a line is very very difficult.

You will find most people who walked into their breed thought to begin with, "this should be easy"  but most realise it is not and you lose them, the stayers are those bright enough and determined enough to plough on.

diresponse - have you been on the receiving end of some all the "Stupid People" /sarcasm as you call it; OR are you commenting on threads you've seen about/with other people?

I don't breed, and do not plan to, BUT I have an interest in getting my dogs from a good breeder (with the 'type' of dog I want).  One thing they all seem to have in common is a complete openess that they do not know everything, an acceptance that each situation presents them with something more to learn, and an acknowledgement that they have improved over time.  They've also, generally, had good mentors who will help and guide them.  It's not just about working through the books and knowing the theory. 

If you ask a question on this forum, for instance, you'll be tapping into a few very experienced breeders.  These are people who choose to share information and give advice.  You may get a bit of information overload, you may get some questions in return, you may be challenged on your assumptions but you'll also benefit from instant help if you run into trouble at any stage of the process.

Yes of course common sense is hugely important but don't discount the knowledge you could gain from opening your ears.  There is a lot of 'ooh fluffy puppies' type of breeding with a pet bitch and a friends dog, this is obviously as undesirable as a puppy farmer.  One may be motivated by money and the other by emotion but neither are likely to care too much about the gene pool.  Once you've gone some way to demonstrating that's not your intention or approach then you'll get all the help you want.  Just learn to sift out the attitude from the answers :)

It may not be quantum physics, but its definitely a science.

Growing peas isn't complicated either but Mendel turned it into the foundation study for genetics. Genetics plays a big part in dog breeding, when your aiming to breed for a specific trait, or trying to improve on a dog or reduce exaggeration. Biology plays an even bigger part in dog breeding, the physiology of the reproductive system can be something very difficult to master, and then completely different dog to dog. Physics- as to what goes where and getting a successful mating, and the birth running smoothly too. The chemistry of the female menstrual cycle, is sometime the hardest obstacle. Try telling idexxx that its not a science.

> Because when something goes wrong, its the ones that half hazardly throw two dogs together, or buy from a puppy mill/BYB they are wanting our help.  And because we care for dogs, we give it.  But it doesnt make it any easier.

SO TRUE....I have had a couple of people not want one of my puppies as they are too expensive, then they go and buy from a BYB and call me when the puppy is sick and ask advice on what to do...as the breeder is never interested.....as you say we give the advice, for the sake of the dog

I think this post must be a wind up if read alongside your other post in the general section asking for advice on how many litters your bitch can have and what gaps to leave.
Enough said I think!

Am i the only one that thought the OPs name was DL-response

You're not alone - that was my thought too.

> BUT breeding outstanding dogs, that are healthy with superb temperaments, eradicating something genetically from a line is very very difficult.
>
> You will find most people who walked into their breed thought to begin with, "this should be easy"  but most realise it is not and you lose them, the stayers are those bright enough and determined enough to plough on.

Wholeheartedly agree with this statement.  Having a breed known for whelping problems, just like the pugs, I have been quietly working away at my ideal.  A self whelping line!!  Horrors!  Some breeders think it takes far too long, when you can cut them open anyway!

Ok, it's an uphill task I've set myself, and yes, having bitches spayed because they didn't self whelp, and ensuring the offspring go to five star pet homes and are neutered, is a long, long haul.  But I am quietly working away at my goal.  And to have a bitch self whelp, and keep one of her daughters, and wait for her to self whelp, takes time.  And it isn't going to happen yesterday.  But I am determined in my aim.

Ditto I did think the name was a tad funny.

I wondered about the first 3 letters?  May be a co-incidence.