Hi all, Im after a bit of help. My girl comes into season every 10 months and we tried to mate her last season, this was very very long awaited. Everything was sorted and after a couple of premates done by our local vets, in house, they told us to mate her within 24-48 hours. She was then mated on day 13 and 15 but both were slip matings as although she stood she kept pulling away before they managed to tie.
The breeder said that she felt quite tight the first mating so wasnt sure if she was quite ready but the second time she was a lot softer inside, this was the bettermating.
From around day 5 of her season last time she was really flirting with my other girl, crying at her constantly trying to get her attention so she will mate her, she is now on day 7 of her season this time and is doing the same, driving me mad, Ive had to split them a bit!

This time we have her on a course on antibiotics and she is booked in for bloods to be taken on day 11 (monday) and then this time we are sending them to idexx, Im just a little worried that we might be leaving it too late but then this is what the stud owner has said to do cos she thinks we mated her too early last time. Do you think I should spend the extra money and get her bloods done in the next couple of days just to make sure she isnt ready now or will waiting the 5 days be OK?

When my other bitch does actually mount her she will flag her tail and let her for a couple of seconds then curls her lip and flings her back end round, but then as soon as shes off her she wants her to do it again, I know she isnt ready now but I dont want to find out in 5 days that she was ready 2 days ago. Aaaaarrrggghhh, I dont know what to do, this is so stressful!
Thanks

It is quite normal for bitches to flirt with each other and even stand for them long before they will stand for an actual mating.

As to when you start testing it can do no harm to have her tested early if it makes you feel better to confirm a low hormone level.

I think youre right, I really dont think she's ready quite yet. The thing is I do wonder if we left her too late last time, however, the chances are she was actually mated too early.
I think the test would be just for my peace of mind, to know that we definately havent missed her.
Also, how do you feel about getting the CHV vaccine?
Im very tempted to get her these vaccines to give her the best possible chance of concieving, what is your take on them? My vet quoted me £51 per vaccine, which I would be more than happy to pay if it will help.
I dont even mind if we just get a small litter of 2-3 pups, as long as we have something....at least then I know she can produce. Im really hoping she has a bitch puppy with show potential but if not then at least it would give me a bit of hope that we could try again with a different dog in a year or two time, if you know what I mean?!

I always give my girls the CHV vaccine - about 7 - 10 days after mating and again a week prior to whelping.  I get the vaccine from my vet and give it myself - cost £18- £19!
One of my girls has recently missed - would have been her 2nd litter - so very disappointed and I had done pre-mates, anti-biotics, CHV etc.  Now I don't know what to do on her next season - try with same dog or try another.  I really like the dog I used and want to go back but another breeder suggested trying another dog - such a dilemma.  Still I have a few months before she's in season again to make up my mind.

Re the CHV vaccination, when I enquired when I last had a bitch mated it was unavailable.

I think my girl has missed, she is 6 weeks from last mating today and no sign of any bump(third litter) but she is one who hardly showed last time with average size litter until nearly 8 weeks.

Could be an odd pup hiding.

In some ways I would prefer a miss to a singleton, as she is 6 now.

I had my bitch scanned at 6 weeks as she didn't appear to be getting any bigger.  She had 11 in her first litter so wouldn't really expect so many another time.  Scanner said she may have one hiding behind her bladder - but no such luck - another few months to wait until I can try again.
Brainless - would value your opinion on using same stud dog again or finding another.  I have used a different sire than for her first litter.

Hope your bitch is hiding a pup or two.

Hi Ladyjade
I got my girl the CHV vaccine a few weeks back and was charged about £56 for the two of them.  She was given her first one 10 days after mating  and is due her next one 7-10 days before her due date.
I started testing my girl on day 9 and she was ready on day 11. They are all very different though and have their on pattern.
Good luck

I have never gone back to the same dog when a bitch has missed, but on thsi occasion I will try again as we want this particular mating.

You have my sympathy .... sometime I do wonder why we put ourslves through all this stress. If it will ease your mind and you are really worried about missing her I would do an earlier test, it wont hurt the dog just the pocket ! I have tested mine from as early as 7 days with girls who are difficult to aseess from physical changes. Have tested bitches and found one bitch to be ready on day 8 and another as late as day 26. Blooming dogs just don't read the "book of the bitch" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The lab test are far more accurate than in house test (which I would only use at weekend/BH if labs closed ) 

Good Luck

Thats great thanks for all of your responses, she is really starting to flag her tail when touched around her back legs....espescially when I was combing her feathering on tail and around vulva. Im sure she'll be ready a lot later, no doubt around day 16ish, but Im gonna pull out the money and then at least I know for sure we didnt miss her. Will get her to the vets for bloods tomorrow so can have a result on sat, with nay luck shell be ready then and she can save me a bit of money lol.
You're so right klb, I mustve read that book 3 times last mating and have dug it out again this time....shame they cant read it themselves and give us a bit of a hand lol

Will let you all know what labs say, the man I spoke to at idexx yesterday when asking for test kits said they were open saturdays aswell so thats handy cos chances are I wouldnt be able to send the blood until tomorrrow evening.

"mated on day 13 and 15 but both were slip matings as although she stood she kept pulling away before they managed to tie"

Hi ladyjade,
I use the CHV vaccine too. It can either be given early in the season, or about 10 days after mating.
If in doubt about when your girl is ready, better take an extra blood test, if nothing else to put your mind at rest.

I quoted from your first post above. If you're going to use the same stud dog again, it could be a good idea to get help from
someone with experience of mating dogs. The behaviour you describe is common in a maiden bitch. It is
sometimes necessary to assist a little in order to achieve a tie.
HTH, Good luck,
Karen

Hiya rrfriend, thanks I have decided to get the CHV vaccine, I dont want to leave something out and risk having to try again next season.
As for the mating and help, the breeder of the stud dog was there and the owner. The breeder was helping the male out by trying to keep him in there and although she managed to keep him there for 15-20 secs or so it just wasnt enough time for them to tie. As for the breeder, I am very confident that she did all she could, however my bitch really can be a little madam, but I suppose I cant expect her to stand there and mate if she wasnt ready, poor girl!

Thanks, Im trying so hard not to get my hopes up this time....I had 9 puppies practically sold last time and there was a lot of people let down, I felt so awful!
Shes deffo going for bloods tonight, shes really up for it with my gsd bitch today! Had to split the little monkey again lol

Has the male been tested to see if he is fertile? It isn't unkown for a male to 'go off' early and not be able to produce semen. Even if he has already fathered a litter(s) he could still be firing blanks. Personally I would go to another dog, seeing as she is one of those bitches that has a long time in between seasons.

Hiya Lindylou, he has sired litters before but because he hadnt been used for a while before my girls last mating, the owner got him tested and he was fine.
He has since sired a few more litters and has a bitch in whelp to him at the moment. Hehas also just mated another bitch within the last few days. I did think this but I REALLY like the dog so am prepared to give it one last shot with him. If she doesnt take this time then I will be looking at finding another stud dog.
She is at the vets at 5.50pm for her first lot of bloods to be taken, should get the results sat depending on the post, so fingers crossed!

Re the CHV vaccination, when I enquired when I last had a bitch mated it was unavailable.

I took a bitch in for it 2 weeks ago, and the vet said I was lucky he had a dose left, it was only because another bitch that had been mated had not taken and so did not need a second injection. He said in future we need to call him a few days before we need it so he can order it in for us -doesn't take longer to get it than that.

I paid £30, plus £5 for a weeks' worth of antibiotics which he recommended.

Hiya, well weve had her blood taken and the vet was happy to give her a course of antibiotics for 5 days.
Theyre ordering the CHV vaccine in for monday so she can have the first jab when she goes in for her second lot of bloods (if she needs them)! Im not sure where the other girl got £51 from cos theyve now quoted me £38 per vaccine. They said she can have the first jab anywhere between the first day of season to 10 days after mating and the second jab 7-14 days before her due date.
I was really hoping that I would get the results from the bloods on saturday but I posted the pack to IDEXX and then looked at the post box and they dont collect it until 4.45pm, which means Ive missed tonights post and they wont even collect it till 4.45pm tomorrow.....meaning they wont get blood till monday morning, AAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!

Why did I post it before I checked?! How stupid!!
Never mind, hopefully the results will come back that she wasnt ready and maybe well have more luck with her next lot of bloods on monday morning.
My god, this is so stressful lol, and this is just the start, she isnt even pregnant yet!!!!!!

I could kick myself, what an idiot!

IDEXX work on Saturdays so the blood should arrive Saturday and he will phone you  (probably) sometime after lunch. You could always telephone on Saturday and check to see if it has arrived.
I always have the bloods taken in the morning to make the lunchtime post.

Hiya Alison, thats what I was hoping, that the blood would get there for saturday, however, the postman doesnt even pick the post up from the post box until 4.45pm friday. Do you think it will still get there for saturday morning? God I hope so!
She is really going for it with my other bitch and wont leave her alone.....flagging her tail and raising her vulva, Im so worried were gona miss it again, its driving me mad lol

Should be okay. Have you written the date of blood taken on the form as he will work out her progesterone level from the date.

Yeah I put it on the form and the blood vial too. Phew, I had a panic on there. I think I will ring on sat to make sure they got the blood OK.
Alison, Ive just noticed we are in the same breed, do you find your bitches flirt from an early stage in their season or are they all different?
Thanks Amy

Hi Amy

Some will and some won't so yes, they are very different.

Hi again,
I really feel for you, know all about the worry and frustration you're going through.
Just a thought. If you don't get a result by Saturday, is it possible to visit the stud dog
anyway? Or is it a one trip only? Distance and all that can make visits difficult, I
realize that. If your girl is ready, the stud dog will know. If she's not, no harm done.
If it were me, I'd take my girl to see the dog on Saturday, if I didn't have the result to go by.

Bitches do tend to flirt with each other  long before it's the right day, and long after too.
You can't use that behaviour as an indication of when it's time to mate.
Good luck!
Karen

Have rang IDEXX this morning and they have recieved Tiegan's bloods, thankgod!!!!
Phew, panic over, they said to expect a phone call around 2ish with the results. No doubt she'll have to have another 2-3 tests before shes ready but it puts my mind at rest lol

Im so excited!!!!!! :-)

Will let you know what results are
Amy

Well Larry has been in touch and her levels were 3.5 on thursday so I deffo havent missed her....he said to gets more bloods on monday at the latest and will get results tuesday. He said will probably hit it right then. Yey!!

Thanks so much with all of your help guys...will keep you al updated, fingers crossed we actually get a litter this time :-)
Amy

That sounds about right for Tuesday onwards.

Hope you got a good mating, im stressing also, mated our female last year in Germany and she missed, all the blood tests were done etc, this time we have gone to another dog, done all the tests, so keeping everything crossed as the dog we used was fully booked and we were very lucky to use him, both seasons she was ready on day 15, i,ll be gutted if she misses again, good luck with your litter.

Had our female scanned on boxing day and woo hoo she is in welp, fingers xd everything goes ok, Keith seen 5 puppies, im over the moon, she is off her food a little now in the morning so im a bit stressed.

Good for you annastasia :)  Really pleased its come good for you this time

hi everyone. my bitch is 38days from the day she was mated. no signs of anything. do you think she hasnt caught? she was mated on her last season in may and didnt catch then. beggining to wonder if she has caught this time either!

why dont you have her scanned?

thats wonderful news annastasia im sooooo pleased for you xx :)

Woo hoo for Annastasia :-)
Hope it allgoes well for you :-)

Goodness it only feels like yesterday since I started this thread...my babies are now 23 days old!!!!
Time flies when your having fun lol. I love them at this stage, just starting to play and growl and bark, its so so funny. Ill really miss them when they go :-(

thanx everyone. i was terrified to get my female scanned but it was frrustrating me the not knowing, good luck x

I've just had Esme scanned - no pups! I'm soooo disappointed!

so sorry, i know how you feel i was gutted when my female missed last year, good luck for next time,

Thanks. Can't decide now if I should use the same stud, as much as I like him. I hope all goes well with your little bundles.

Thanks, hope you get the babies you wish for soon

> Goodness it only feels like yesterday since I started this thread...my babies are now 23 days old!!!!
>

Just caught up with this thread and see you got your babies, so how did the rest of the testing go?

did you go based on what the man at IDEXXX said,a dn did the stud agree with him?

I'd be interested to know as well, seeing as my girl has just missed, even though I did the in-house premate tests and got a good tie.

Well Larry rang me and told me to mate the next day which was the wed and 2 days later. We took Tiegan the wed and she was still not happy, I was devastated thinking we would never be able to mate her. We got a very bad slip mating, took her again the Friday and she was just as stand offish and was quite aggressive towards the male since she knew what was coming, she settled down after a bit of a flirt and we got another sip mating, took her again on th saturday for one last try. She walked in turned her tail and happily stood the whole time. We couldnt believe it!!!!
Larry told me when he rang on the tuesday that she would be ovulating that day so to take her the next day and 2 days later, in fact she still wasnt ready until the sat. I dare bet she wouldve been happy to mate again on the sunday too. I would still always gowith IDEXX though, far more accurate than premates. At least I could be sure that we hadnt missed her. Ive now got 7 big fat balls of fluff in my living room :-) and hopefully will get the girl Ive always wanted from this litter :-)

ETA Its Funny you should ask Brainless....the stud seemed very keen the first 2 matings, he was quite interested and had a few good goes. Looking back on it, he was actually just messing around. He kept licking, getting on then doing the deed and back off only to do it all over again! The last mating he came in didnt even sniff her and just stood there, we thought he wasnt even going to bother her. Breeder dropped the lead and he just got on and did what he was meant to do, they tied and he walked away. We were gobsmacked, he knew the whole time which is why he was messing about, the thing is, this dog hasnt been used a great deal so nonw of us knew how he usually works lol. They now know the girl isnt ready if he shows too much interest if that makes sense. If the girl is ready theres no messing around just straight on and job done lol. He was such a good boy to put up with Tiegan, am very surprised she didnt put him off for life!!! Now we know that shes actually a lte ovulater, thing we finally got a mating on day 18? Last time we tried her it was day 12/13 so no wonder she missed!!!

Sounds a bit like mine are they won't mate (or the males won't mate them) until the eggs are ripe about two days after ovulating, and then you still have two days.

For this reason you need to know what the result is rather than take advice re mating date.  they will assume a bitch will stand from ovulation onwards, but that isn't always the case some won't stand until the eggs are ripe two days later and the males can be the same.

Hi new to this but looking for some help My maiden bitch would not allow the male to mate her till day 15 but when i did the progeston test she had ovulated most probably on day 11 She and he was not that keen till day 13 when he went mad she was having none of it before then Any chances she may catch this late after a really good tie on day 15

yes she can still catch ,mum of pups i have here didnt mate till day 24 and had 8 pups.

If she was ovulating day 11 (ovulation usually takes about 24 hours) then the eggs would not have been ripe for fertilisation until day 13 (so the dog was spot on) and they would remain viable for another 2 days or so.

So a mating on day 15 is pretty likely to be OK.  Though if it was right at the end of her fertile period the litter could be smaller than average, depends how many eggs are still viable and then go on to be implanted after fertilisation.

This was exactly the scenario with my Jozi's first litter, she had been very coy the previous time and not allowed an inexperienced boy to mate her, she wanted to act the boys part, which put him off.  We had 4 pups after a mating on day 15 with ovulation pin pointed as likely to have started on day 11,  Next time she was mated a day earlier and we had 7.

So next time I had the Progesterone tests done as I do not believe in interfering with their choice if I am not sure if the time is right, but was willing to try holding the bitch and persuade her if the time was right.

Problem was she was a mature and forceful bitch, and the only compatible males were inexperienced and/or young, and I guess she didn't think them 'man enough'.

Thanks fingers crossed then going to be a long 3 weeks before i scan get her scanned .
On day 5 after the mating and she is acting really funny out bursts of energy then sleeping for hours
she was sick as well yesterday morning and this morning only once and seems fine again I can but hope thanks again x

Good luck, yes a long few weeks until you find out, a female who came to our dog was mated on day 31 and had 8 puppies, obviously a late ovulater,

hi i know she has ovulated on about day 11 (had projestron test ) just hope the eggs lived nice and long x