forgive me if i sound wimpish please,but i feel really depressed over this,and i really need some advice or feedback.ihave a 7 months old collie bitch,and i admit i love her to bits,her training and socialisation has been,i thought,coming on quite well,she l do her stays,arecall,not too bad heelwork.i have a bit of trouble with the retrieve,but we re working on it.
However,in class,she gets excited when anything exciting(!)is happening in class,such as recalls,handlers excitedly praising their dogs,etc,and lunges,sqeaks and yelps,no matter how many times i check her and bellow"no!".ive been told my dog doesnt respect me(i have trouble getting her to come when called on walks too so its probably true!)and to punish her so she sits up and take notice,or il just have to put up with it.

There has to be another way,i cant hurt my dog,i just cant,and wont.my trainer is good,her dogs are excellent,and the other dogs in the class seem happy,as do theones in the classes above mine.i thought my checks were good ones as well!i must sound a wimp,but i really am firm with her.my trainer will think im a wally as well.doing anything harsher than a check on the collar would make me feel like a bully.so,how can i gain my dogs respect?any advice or thoughts please?

It sounds as though your trainer doesn't know the difference between respect and fear. I suggest you find a better class - look at this link for details.

i have no experience of owning collies, but i know the breed is very intelligent and a herding dog. I would say the same as jeangenie, find a different trainer, you are on the right tracks so to speak if your puppy enjoys heel work and recall. But i would say that with what she does at training class is an excited puppy when around other excited dogs, you do have to be firm, but also calm when training, shouting at a dog helps no one. Have a positive mind when doing training with her, dont think about what normally happens, think 'right we can do this' and stay calm. Training dogs should be fun for both of you, otherwise if it is not fun then neither you or your puppy will learn and enjoy it :) x

Hi collipam,
Your girl only being 7 months- she will get excited and hyper with being in class, its natural for them to sometimes get carried away and not listen. I think your trainer is telling you to get respect from your dog but you need to develop trust...Maybe taking her out for a big long walk to burn off that excess energy might calm her a little, do not give her any dinner before you go then with tit bits for treating her she will be more inclined to co operate with you. Sounds as if as your trainer is telling you you are a wimp in the moment of madness you are losing touch and getting to emotional for you girl to listen. That's your trainers fault not yours remember! Being harsher with your girl would only rule her with fear and is not a right way to train a young dog ever in my mind. Start with 10 minutes training at home everyday just one on one then after a walk in the park or where ever outside. Small little steps will get you so much further than being brutal. Try and put 100% focus on your girl and block everything out when asking her to do something it is hard with a roomful of people and dogs all looking on, but I'm sure you will notice a difference. Bellowing the word no to you dog while yanking her neck will not have the desired affect either try a quiet but deep Noooooo in a gentle way if she keeps ignoring you, turn in a tight circle she'll soon look at you wondering why the hell you keep turning her in circles lol once she makes eye contact give her a treat & loves. She'll learn to listen to you far more by this approach. Your trainer sounds a bit of a numpty I'm afraid. :-)  

Your puppy is still very much a baby and will get excited. She wont have developed much selfcontrol yet and no matter how hard she wants to try and please you she will still find that its far to difficult to sit still or stay quiet when everyone else is having so much fun. It is really all a matter of time and your trainer should understand this.
I would consider as others have said looking for a new class, Possibly one that uses a clicker but definitely one that understands puppies have shorter attention spans and get excited.

Agree with everything said here.

I would ask who has taught you to bellow at your pup? An excitable dog, which she sounds as though she is, will probably be more sensitive to any stimuli, by bellowing you are adding to the overload and possibly her anxiety. We all know that an anxious, overloaded brain does not function well in terms of retaining information and focus.

It is all too easy for trainers to fall back on the mantra of  "your dog doesn't respect you". Different dogs, even within the same breed, may need different handling according to their individual temperaments. Perhaps your trainer is not up to the job and has come to a dog that does not meet her one size fits all methods. I too would advise you to find a different class where the trainer is prepared to take a little time and thought in helping you find the method of training most suited to your dog. By and large, checking and bellowing is not the way to go.

Please change your trainer PDQ she obviously has no understanding of how dogs learn & develop.

Motivational training is the way to go, you find what motivates your dog(food, toys etc)& use that to teach your dog to use it's brain to learn whatever you what her to.

Respect is a two way learning trip. Clickers are brilliant to teach your dog to use it's brain to work out what it did to get the reward. We have a very small private pet dog club, sometimes we only have 4 dogs & the rate at which the learn is incredible. I'm not advertising the club as it is for pet owners with dogs that have behavioural issues.

Have a look at Karen Pryors site, there are downloadable tips & brilliant articles.

i would fine a new class if this is how your told to treat your dog.
when it comes to recall go back to basics and use a long line, use the command 'come' as you pull the dog towards you gently and as she comes closer keep repeating the command. when she is by you give her a nice treat. you can practice this in the house and garden, just call her if your in a different room and when you see her coming say your command and treat her.practise the same sort of thing in the garden, as long as you use the command every time you see her coming towards you even if you havn't called her then this will soon teach her what your command means but make sure you carry treats or a toy she likes with you and always reward her.
when she is off the lead use your command  often, don't let her go to far away. this way your keep her attention.when she comes get her to sit calmly and treat her then let her go again, so she doesn't think by coming back it's the end of play time.
by getting her to sit when she comes it will make it easier to put her lead on when you are ready to go home.
with a collie you need to use their brain alot so just running around want be enough. practising all your commands will tire her out as she's using her brain and playing games ie finding things and fetching etc. this will also get the dogs respect as you build a closer relationship with her by spending your time together.
never shout at her if she doesn't come back to you as this will only teach her that coming back is a bad thing but try running the other way and calling in a high pitch soft voice as if your having fun or just sit down and ignore her and see if she comes to find out what your doing. give her a treat before you let her off the lead so she knows what you've got and wants more.
in class if she's being over excited try getting her to sit and give her treats to distract her, don't shout as she'll just see this as you getting excited as well and will make things worst. distraction is always best.
don't expect too much to soon, all dogs learn at different passes and if you force things then it want help.
my last dog is great off lead and at home but in class she can act as if she knows hardly anything but thats normal with everything thats going on around you. i don't compare my dog to the others and work at my own pace and enjoy it.
good luck i'm sure your be fine. 
 
 

I have found over the years that some trainers do not understand the collie ..because they are so clever it sometimes appears to look like you have no control because they are full on most of the time (using thier brain)  where as other breeds seem calmer and more obedient because they dont have the intelligence of the collie breed.(appologies if I upset anyone)

Most of the time the tone of your voice is more important than the words I can whisper commands to my dogs and they work . Once you get the tone right with your commands he will listen , a deep tone he will soon learn you are not happy so keep it light and fluffy.

During a lesson especially with a collie waiting his turn to take part rather than standing waiting you need to find a corner (tell the trainer this is what you are going to do my trainers were always happy for me to do this ) and work him just sit, stand, down, wait, watch etc give him a tug on a ball on a rope as a reward  he will watch you intently for the next command as all a collie ever wants to do is work and please !!
Then when its your turn he will be ready .

For a good recall you need to be more exciting than other dogs or people, take toys (balls work for me) only used when you go out, put them away in the house where he can see them but know he cant have them until you are out..  he will want them more.. play games as you wander around the park he wont be interested in anything else keep calling him to you give a hug, a pull on a ball on a rope and say 'go play' lots of attention use one word to call him back I use 'come'  in a high pitched tone ...not come her *** now you naught boy etc all he will hear is la la la la la al la la al la la la

I would consider changing the trainer if thats possible .

oh thank s all of you,for your replys and helpful tips(and moral support!)i was starting to feel its a crime to love your dog,i feel loads happier now!im going out to practice,now!thanks !bless you all!

I agree with everyone else, especially about finding a new club. Collie pups are hard work, but after the 1st year you've got a brilliant dog for hopefully the next 14 years or so :-) 

Each person must decide on the training method that suits them, clicker, treat or toy etc. I get mine toy obsessed as young as possible, each dog seems to get attracted to different types of toys - a tuggy, a tennis ball or a squeaky whatever your dog likes playing with. Don't let them play alone with their special toy though, the toy you choose to use is only for when you are playing with the pup. Pup will soon realise that big fun starts when this toy appears and she'll not notice anything else around her. My young collie would do anything for a game of tug of war and her mother would do anything for a tennis ball :-)

yes,my pup loves her ball,doesnt look at anything else when thats out!and as i cant leave it out because she nibbles bits off it,mite be ideal for training,thanks!ive just got back with her,from a  walk with bits of training along the way,n was delighted  to have her going "down"from a stand,with the command and hand signal at 6 feet,up to now ive had to be a lot closer,Wahey!Im loads happier now,thanks again everyone.

Can only agree with everyone else. You gain respect by showing respect. My trainer always says that any human would work better for a boss that not only offered good pay but praise and encouragement, rather than a bully. It's the same for dogs.

Speaking as one who has been there, done that, got the tee shirt etc!  Don't let them knock your confidence - negative remarks like - your dog has no respect for you, your dog is taking the mickey, etc only undermine your confidence - I have got so much support from people on here and have persevered with my collie bitch.  I started agility when she was a year old and as a lot of folk on here know have been on an up and down ride for the last few years.  If you had seen my dog this morning you would have thought that she was an angel (well nearly)  My present trainers have been quiet, firm and understanding with her.  My agility lessons have been the making of our relationship. 

I agree with other advice given here.

I would only add that I've found that the less we "chat" to our dogs, the more they listen to us. When out for a walk with my two, I only speak to them if I want something, or to praise. Therefore, the "where are we going", "I love you diddums", "look at the birdie" kind of chatter, only serves to desensitise our dogs to our voices. I've learned to praise using a high voice and big gestures, and to use a deeper voice if I mean business, i.e. if the dog looks like it might disregard my command.

My daughter has one of our recent litter, her pup is now 20 weeks. I've noticed that she constantly calls her (even when she's sniffing a blade of grass!), and now the pup has started to ignore her when there's something more exciting the other way!

I've always found an extremely calm soft voice the best when training. After all, our dogs have infinitely better hearing than we do, and praise/treat when they're paying attention is a good place to start.

Excitement in a training class for a sensitive breed like yours is normal in my experience. Getting attention in a calm quiet way is the way to go whether with a treat or toy. As others have said, if you shout, you're joining in, and probably making it worse.

Hopefully you'll find another better trainer to help you, but they all grow up and become somewhat sensible eventually, the adolescence is just something we have to get through.

Good luck...
Tanya

thanks,i really do appreciate all your help!

thanks tanya,i keep telling myself its only teething problems,i should have more confidence.ive always had and loved collies,and theyve always been lovely companions that ive dreaded losing as fhey got older,and ive no doubt jess will be the same,but somehow i never learned confidence along the way,which is why i appreciate you all helping me so much.i am glad i found this site!

Hi

You've had great advice here already. I am sorry that you feel depressed and I think you are losing confidence in yourself because of your current trainer.

You want a relationship with your dog built on love and trust, not fear. You don't need to hurt them and you can be firm if necessary without violence or shouting.

Have you tried to get her interested in special toy?  Have a game with her and the special toy then put it away before she loses interest in it. Keep doing this until she sees that toy as something better than her other things.
Play can help you build a good bond and show her that its more fun and better to be with you on a walk, rather than heading off on her own.

When your dog is squeaking and lunging at class, sit in a quite spot and get your dog to settle by putting your foot on her lead so that she can sit or lie down only. Don't touch or fuss her, let her work it out and you can gently praise her if she is good. Practice settle at home, in class, out when meeting people in the street etc. The trainer I work with has four border collies and she & I use this command as its not like a controlled down stay, the dog can move or adjust its position so that it is comfortable. It just keeps things calmer and you can relax a bit.

Find a nice trainer who uses a reward based method of training not harsh methods which include punishment.

Good Luck

thankyou,yes,loads of goodadvice,i really appreciate the advice and all the tips.dont worry,theres no way i could hurt my dog,i think shes not doing too badly to say im a crap trainer,lol,shes getting to enjoy her training sessions.i felt reallydown about it all last week,but quite chirpy again now.so thanks again everyone!

Good website info:

How dogs learn and relationships, plus training tips:

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/table/behaviour-training/

Say No to punitive methods:

http://coape.org/awsn.html

How to choose a good dog trainer (scroll down for adult dog class)

http://www.apdt.co.uk/choosing_dog_trainer_uk.asp

Hth :)

thankyou lindsay