Can someone unstick me please?!

Having learnt so much from this site I sometimes pass on my new found dog wisdom to anyone who'll listen.  Thus it was I started an after dinner conversation with my mum and brother whilst on holiday last week...

We were discussing one of our much loved, still missed, family dog that came from a rescue and who we quickly discovered was already in whelp.  Although she was a mongrel her litter still had two quite distinctive looks.  "By the way" I said, "did you know that her puppies could have been sired by two different dogs" ?

Much hooting and derision later (it was a boozy meal!!) I realised that I couldn't remember exactly how/why this can be so, other than multiple eggs, stray bitch etc.  Can someone remind me of the sciencific term please :) 

Little trollop! :-D

Yes a litter can be sired by multiple fathers - there is a DNA test available for pedigree owners if their bitch is mismated after going to stud ;)   

Genetic Testing

Having said that, my own 'rescue' was from a litter sired by one father (Afghan), but there were two distinct 'types' of pup/adult.   3 were large, leggy and smooth coated tan/white dogs and the one we had was small, racy looking, long/full coated, coal black with typical lighter areas just like his Afghan dad (Like a mini Affie)

Mongrels and crossbreeds can be very confusing ;)

Little trollop - yes that's the scientific term I was after!!

I always assumed that as she was a complete mongrel of no discernable type that it wasn't too surprising that her pups looked mixed.  It was only with the benefit of hindsight, and a bit of CD knowledge, that it occurred to me there may have been a reason that 3 of them were very similar to each other and nothing much like her.  Perhaps this dad had quite strong genes!  Most of the 7 pups went to family members and pictures of them as adults suggest he may have been a greyhound type.  The other pups were more like mums colouring and coat type but with a labrador look.

We got this dog 28 years ago and when the family are all together she's still a topic of conversation.  One of the very memorable ones, and still much missed! :)  I love my pedigree boy but there will always be a place in my heart, and my house, for a scruffy looking 'bin raiding' wiry mongrel.  She's the reason I have another rescue that looks just like her.  Heaven only knows what's in his genetic make up too...

It was only with the benefit of hindsight, and a bit of CD knowledge, that it occurred to me there may have been a reason that 3 of them were very similar to each other and nothing much like her.  Perhaps this dad had quite strong genes!  Most of the 7 pups went to family members and pictures of them as adults suggest he may have been a greyhound type.  The other pups were more like mums colouring and coat type but with a labrador look.

Anything is possible of course, but don't forget mating two different dogs of different breeds (or crossbreeds/mongrels) together doesn't mean any will end up looking like either parent. :) I had an accidental litter where the father was a Golden Retriever, mother a Malinois (so fawn coloured with black mask). 5 of the pups were jet black, the other four were brindle with black masks. I.e. not one of nine looked like EITHER parent -with the exception of the black masks. Some of the owners have been told over and over that they must have been had, there is no way their dogs could be half Golden Retriever, they're obviously Labrador crosses. I kept two of the brindles and I've often been told (like at companion shows), with very much authority "Here you have a Greyhound cross!" :)

Cats and Dogs and I suppose other animals that ovulate due to hormones and  not due to mating stimulus (the rabbit), could theoretically have pups/kits by several sires if mated by different dogs within a short space of time (the viability of the ova).

Very rarely it has happened in people with fraternal twins having different fathers.
http://www.multiplemom.com/articles/twins-with-different-fathers.html
http://www.wowowow.com/entertainment/fraternal-twins-born-different-fathers-half-siblings-mia-washington-301878
http://www.dnacenter.com/science-technology/articles/twins-different-fathers.html

> Cats and Dogs and I suppose other animals that ovulate due to hormones and  not due to mating stimulus (the rabbit), could theoretically have pups/kits by several sires if mated by different dogs within a short space of time (the viability of the ova).

Actually I think queens need to be mated in order to ovulate-Marianne I'm sure will put me right if I have got it wrong ;-)

They still can have multiple sires, but I don't think Rabbits can so it may be something to do with the timing, could be that queens release eggs over a longer period.

If a female rabbit is mated more than 48 hours after an infertile mating she will not conceive as her body already thinks it is pregnant and she will be infertile for two weeks until her body realises it isn't pregnant.

LOL I'm sure Marianne will put us right ;-)

Yes queens need to be mated in order to ovulate which is why ONE mating would not work -but if she went on to be mated to two different studs after that, yes there could be two fathers. Normally you mate a queen over a period of 2-3 days.

I've known of a litter of hamsters with two sires.

Hedgehogs  can have multiple sired litters too :)

Some of the rarer breeds of dogs often use the two sires to a litter as a way to increase genes without breeding the bitches over and over - one whelping and 2 potential different genes added :)

right. say the bitch released 6 eggs,
the next day she was most firtile. a jack russle comes around and does the deed. the next day a lhasa does teh deed.

as long as there were some or just one egg that wasnt firtilised by the first dog, teh sperm of the second could do it.

i could go in more depth, but dont have the time.

there are women out there that have non-identicle twins where one is black and the other white for example.

Gosh I'm in a rare breed of dog, have been for 17 years and not done that!

>as long as there were some or just one egg that wasnt firtilised by the first dog, teh sperm of the second could do it.

The eggs aren't necessarily fertilised on the day of mating, it could be days later when they are ready ;) so it could be a real mix!

It's becomeing quite a usual thing to do in the USA, where people want to use 2 dogs on 1 bitch, and decide to do it both at the same time, then DNA test the litter and register each pup to the relevant sire.

i know, i was just writing quickly.
they colud even mate teh bitch straight after each other.

when i had my springer, we were told she thought there might be some springer x labs come out beacuse she got caught by one the same day as she was mated by the stud.
but they were all springers.

How did you know that they were all springers did you have them all DNA tested then?

you only had to look at them to see, there was nothing in any of teh dogs that said that they could be a cross, they were working type, they all had natural spaniel working ability. if you were to see them you would know there wasnt any lab in them. and my aunt has a 'labradinger' they look like Labs.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/l/labradinger.htm

you only had to look at them to see

I take it they weren't KC registered then?

no. working type, but pure working springer.