i seem to think it is all to do with numbers, that there needs to be a certain amount in a breed.

thank you

It's mainly number of registrations but also number of dogs shown. I don't think there is a set figure but I could be wrong. With my breed it took from 1973 until 2006 to gain championship status. If entries fall too much the KC can take the tickets away again (some or all) and I can see that happening to us as we've had shows with just 8-10 entries and a set of tickets available this year. Yet we only get 8 shows a year with tickets.

It varies enourmously, take the Malamutes for example, they fought off CC's for a long time and have large numbers of registrations and attendees at shows, Australian Cattle Dogs got CC's at the same time and have quite small numbers.  Dogue De Bordeaux were held back on the Import Register and may well be held back a long time for CC's as they cannot get their Clubs in order, where as Russian Blacks progress nicely although they have small numbers

yeah i thourght as much it never makes sence, the kooikerhondje came off the imported register in 2008, yet the lagatto hasnt yet and teh spanish wd have more in the breed and have only just got classes, no the lagatto hasnt got classes.
i hope the kooikerhondje gets CC's soon i want my Flick to be a champ. with out going abroud.

We as a breed and especially the original importers, maybe didn't want it to take quite as long as nearly 16 years, but we didn't want to rush things in the show world as we didn't want the Spanish to become to popular to early and people only to own them to breed and breed and not for the interest of the breed itself and I think it worked.

Would love to have CC's fairly soon, but again not to soon.

We are having really good entries at shows especially champ shows where we are having around the 30 mark, not bad when in reality most people buying aren't into the show world, though saying that many are ending up showing them and never thought that they would have an interest in showing they were more for agility and obedience side of things and gundogs. 

yes it took over 20 years for kooikerhondjes to get classes, we would have more in teh ring but we have alot of puppies born with incorrect markings, which lowers the no. of dogs in the ring.
the club are foccusing on the showing public and very doggy people to buy kooikers, but i feel that if they were to advitise to teh g. public then our waiting list would grow, luckily we are starting to do well in teh main ring with one of our dogs being the first to get shortlisted in a champ show. she is the best kooiker we have and i think she would de really well in europe.  so with dogs like that the showing public stat to get interested, and know that crufts will be back on tv the g.public will hopfully see the kooiker and full in love which im sure you feel the same.

the CC's is what i want, my girl would deffinatley collect enough, it would take a little while but she would get them, this is if teh amazing sister doesnt steal them every time.

We didn't want CCs in Malinois and actually asked the KC to NOT give them to us. The worry was that people would jump into the breed just because they could win tickets -without as much competition as in most other breeds. Those of us that were already showing were quite happy to continue as we were. Of course it was nice to get them, but it's had its drawbacks. Only 8 shows a year with tickets and those without now hardly get any entries at all -most get one, two or three dogs, that's it. The shows with tickets have dropped a lot in numbers as well now after the first excitement. So all in all we have actually ended up with a lot LESS dogs being shown.

yeah i can see that happening,
the kooikerhondjes have two very dedicated breeders that show at every show witha class and a groupe of dedicated owners that show alot, i have only been in the breed for just over a yeah now and before me there was a huge hype for owners to show when the breed came off the imported register, and know alot of those dogs dont get shown so our no.s could go up by 2-4 dogs.

george

Is has just been announced that HWV's will have CC's in 2011 not something I have been looking forward to............

Diane

what was the reason that they wanted to give them to you, was it no.s in the breed or no.s showing?  you have a little to wait though, it wouldnt suprise me if there was a sudden demand.

The demand began 12 months ago in aniticipation!! mores the pity..............I was told by the KC that one of the criteria for CC status was an average of 30 entries at every champ show over a three year period. I did work out the  CBR entries who were allocated CC's last year and even over a four year period they didnt reach those averages.

But some breeds, such as the Duck Tollers, have much bigger entries than that (over 100 at Crufts) and yet they don't have CCs

An average of 30 at EVERY ch show that has classes over three years is quite difficult to obtain, HWV's have 60 and more at a lot of shows but the far flung shows such as Paignton, WKC, SKC drag the averages down, I expect its the same with the Tollers. Just had a quick look Tollers had 39 at Manchester, 38 at The National, 47 at Bpool, 44 at Windsor, 25 at Leeds, 5 at SKC, 22 at Southern Counties. Thats gives and average of 30 per show so far on the shows I checked but it may be that last year and year before the entries were lower. If you are in the breed its worth checking back over the last few years and working out the average. This is what the HWVA committee did as part of a presenstation to the KC
Diane

so its close for the kooikerhondje, about three more litters and then we will have enough, i did sort of think it was a good idea, and now i dont know.

george

so its close for the kooikerhondje, about three more litters and then we will have enough

Not quite sure what you mean. Looking at all the champ.shows this year you've had breed classes at, that's 8 in total, and the average entry is just 16 -which is slightly higher because Crufts had 24, most of the others have 14 or 15.

well litters of 4-7 that is another 12-21 and we are always having imports come in, but i didnt know our average was as low as that. i thought that it was more like 18-20 but never mind, it means we have a wait more like 5 more litters, so a few more years. 

I read in one of the dog papers that the Cesky Terriers had been turned down because of lack of genetic diversity. I think there are more things that are considerd, not just numbers at shows.

I really wish CC's hadn't been given in my breed... It has become a nightmare...... there is nastiness in abundance, people breeding all sorts that is supposed to resemble the breed and people in the breed who don't really care about it, but just like to do some winning with a 'flashy looking dog'...
I didn't want CC's and neither did a lot of people in the breed... so those that don't have CC's, hold on to a nice atmosphere... I would give anything to go back to the days of the Import Reg !!!

Gabrielle

Doubt in this day and age that it was just due to the CC's on offer, but yep, that is why we didn't push things to much with the Spanish in the early days.

It isn't just numbers but various other things. The breed does need to have been off the IR for 7 years and get an average of 30+ dogs at show. But they also look at things like the genetic diversity of the breed, number of exhibitors, health issues and how they are being tackled, and the judging list to see if there are enough judges. A lot will depend on the breed club presentation and how well they put the case.

It is also to do with the quality of the stock being shown.
Becky

well we are very picky in our breed to who gets a dog, the are veted twice once by someone high up in teh club and then again by the breeder and this happends alot to a person. the last people to come in to teh breed have imported dogs from holland, because they where not getting a puppy quick enough because we only breed when ther are too many on the waiting list, but obviousely we keep the blood lines going.

it seems like CCs are far away for the kooiker by teh time teh seven years are up we may have enough in the breed, we do need most diversity but then with two imports a year would do it.