Both my dogs have different sleeping arrangements, my adult staff girl is upstairs in my room and the rott boy pup is in his pen in the kitchen.  He often has a howl in the morning if I am not up early enough for him i.e. before 6.30am!  This isn't just any howl but a house shaking deep yodel.

Anyway I am looking to take in a new lodger after the last one moved out fairly recently.  the last one was very understanding about dogs and ws only staying a couple of nights a week for the last 5 months of his tenancy so the howling wasn't a problem and my next door neighbour says she doesn't hear it.

So, my question is whether the pup is more likely to stay quiet for longer if he sleeps in my room in a cage and if he does, is there any chance of him making the transition back to the kitchen at a later date.  I have a feeling he may stay quiet but if I try to move him back downstairs at a later date there will be loud protests.  Has anyone done this before or have any tips for keeping him quiet in the morning?

i havn't had the same situation but i would think if you move him upstairs then you may have trouble as you say moving him back at a later date, although it is possible if you deal with it right.
you don't say how old your pup is because this may make a difference to whether he starts to sleep in longer in the morning as he gets older. all my dogs woke early in the morning for the first few months but as they got older they would eventually get up what ever time i got up, any time from 7.30pm to 9am.
of course he may still wake up at the same time in your room and want the toilet and your attention like all puppies do. 
i go down stairs at 7.30am let the dogs out for the toilet then put them back to bed with toys to play with that they havn't had with them at night, you could try a stuffed kong as well. then i go up stairs with a coffee and get ready and back down about in half an hour or so.
when i let them out i don't speak to them or look at them, just let them out then put them to bed again.this means they don't have a reason to get excited as their getting nothing from me at this point.
tis routine takes a while for them to get used to and my last pup now understands thats what happens and is as good as gold, the sameas my older dogs. if your consistant with what you do then dogs can easily get used to most routines.
don't know if that helps you but hopefully it's given you ideas.

Could you put your staffy girl downstairs with the Rotti for company?  My Rotti X girl always makes a fuss if she is left too long (in her opinion) on her own but when she has my male Ridgeback for company (which is most of the time) then she is as quiet as a mouse unless she needs the toilet, which is understandable.

Perhaps your Rotti wakes up and feels anxiety that no one is around and having another dog nearby might settle him?

The pup is 8 months but definitely doesn't need the toilet.  If I get up with a view to letting him out he won't go to the toilet in the garden even though it has always been his preferred place to pee and poo.  He seems to save his pee up so all the lady dogs can experience his full scent on every tree, blade of grass etc lol

The staffy has always been in with me and there would be a holy war from her if I tried to move her although I don't want to as it makes me feel safer having her in the room - just incase anyone breaks in or if any of the lodgers had been axe murderers! <eek> 

With regards to the pup being anxious, this may be the case as he gets agitated if I leave the room or go out the front door but settles well at night as we do the same routine each night - door locked, lights off and tell him night night (how sad!)

It might be linked to it being light in the morning I he just thinks I am a lazy bones if I am in bed after 6am. I have been on holiday for the last 2 weeks but am usually up at or before 6am so like you say bear it may be that his routine is interrupted.  Heaven forbid I might want a lie in until 6.30am. I am quite reluctant to have him upstairs as he sheds like no-body's business and I have cream carpets upstairs in all the rooms.

Ha ha, its funny you mention it could be to do with the light mornings as I've had the same problem with my toddlers!  I had to put blackout blinds up at their bedroom windows, don't suppose that would work with a dog though?

hi ya,i was going to say that ive got rotts and they sleep in the kitchen.i have had the odd night where ive let them roam the house at night and then didnt like the hairs all over my daughters bed so put them back in the kitchen.had no problems.
with regards to the houling,hes obviously calling you because when he houls you respond by going to him!If you dont think you could bare the teaching him quite then id say how about put a radio alram downstairs so it comes on at say 6 and that may sooth him.are you sure he isnt needing a wee wee?
if it were me(and i DO NOT get out of bed as early as you)i would be teaching him that no matter how long he howls for he will only get a response when hes quite.
is he used to being alone?Rotts are like babies they dont like to be alone and may be getting lonley!
i wish i could help more but there really could be lots of reasons for the howling.

Just a thought,bit of a long shot but are you feeding him when he gets you up at 6.I have found with my pups that they soon learn to shout for breakfast.If you are try not feeding him til say 9 ish and see if he gives you a lie in.

> Just a thought,bit of a long shot but are you feeding him when he gets you up at 6.I have found with my pups that they soon learn to shout for breakfast.If you are try not feeding him til say 9 ish and see if he gives you a lie in.

what a good idea,could be you know sounds like something to try

> Just a thought,bit of a long shot but are you feeding him when he gets you up at 6.I have found with my pups that they soon learn to shout for breakfast.If you are try not feeding him til say 9 ish and see if he gives you a lie in.

definitely not BUT he does get a walk first thing and the dogs go to the park for a run about as soon as I am up so I have time for them to rest before I feed them and then go to work.  there may be something in your theory :)

The drama is now beginning to unfold.  New lodger viewed the property on Saturday and moved in Tuesday evening.  1st night pup howled and as new lodger was starting a new job the next day I went down after 20 minutes and put pup in a cage in my room with myself and other dog.  This didn't do much to appease him as he spent the next 3 hours panting heavily and turning round and round in his cage.  He wouldn't settle and as I was also working the next day I eventually took him out of the cage, put him in a down stay on the lead at the side of my bed.  After about an hour (3.15am!) he went to sleep and my alarm went off at 5.45 to get up for work, walk them etc.

the next night I was exhausted so went to bed at 10pm and said to new lodger that if he was still muttering and grumbling in the kitchen when he went to bed I would go to him.  New lodger went into kitchen to get a drink before bed and the barking started and this led to even more talking and howling from the pup.  I decided to go sleep in the living room and ended up letting pup out the cage to lie on the kitchen floor and at this point he went to sleep.  The bizarre thing is that when I woke  up through the night he had gone back to his cage to sleep in!

Me sleeping on the sofa is not practical longer term and I need some advice how to handle this.  If I was in the house alone I would leave him to howl as I did when he was a pup (this ceased after 15-20 minutes and only went on for a few nights).  Last night he was howling and grumbling for 2 hours with no breaks.  As I have a paying tenant who expected peace and quiet as part of the deal I cannot do this.

the options that my sleep deprived brain has come up with are to stay on the sofa until lodger goes onto night shift or away for a few days and let pup howl himself hoarse then to see that I don't come running or attach a leash to my bed and let him sleep upstairs now.  The leash is to prevent him getting on the bed or too close to my other dog as that has always been her place and it is unfair on her to upset this.  the other thing is that I don't want to share my bed with a rottie every night - or any night for that matter!

Please give me some objective advice with practical solutions to implement.  Ear plugs for the lodger is not what I have in mind!

FWIW, as well as lodger moving in, I took down the pup's pen at the weekend and he now has a 48" cage rather than the pen which I had been gradually reducing in size in anticipation of changing to a cage permanently.  He has no problems with cages and has been introduced to them from day 1.

Couple of ideas spring to mind..

Leave him not penned/crated, but in the kitchen.. that might be all it takes BUT with a new strange person in the house that might set him off if they go in the kitchen after you have gone to bed.

Honestly I wouldnt really be happy with a relative stranger having access to a dog of mine in the night when i was asleep so for that reason alone... i woudl teach him to sleep on the floor or in a crate in my bedroom.. then there absolutely cannot be any accidents or misunderstandings.

I forced a meeting with them both last night after pointing out to the lodger that my pup was probably anxious that there was someone in the house that he hadn't met properly or scented so he couldn't relax.  So they met and the pup sat on his feet for a head rub and took some biscuits off him and all was ok although lodger was still a bit nervous around him.

I decided to crate him in the kitchen again and go down after 10 mins of noise but no noise apart from a few mutterings from him which was great.  then at the back of 12 there was a big howl from him so I went down and he had been sick in his cage (possibly due to being wormed that evening).  so back to the sofa and he alternated between sleeping on the kitchen floor and in his cage with the door open.

Fine it appears to be working, we have our two in the kitchen and when we have vistors they sometimes get disturbed, but the visitors are told do not speak to the dogs and apart from the odd dog groan peace.
I think you did it right to get the two acclimatised.

Thanks Whistler, the odd dog groan sounds great compared to the hound of the baskervilles stuff I have been having.  Hopefully with perseverence I can get it to that level.  The lodger is away for the weekend so he will be cage bound with no sofa sleeping from me - hooray!