hi, i saw an advert today for these and was wondering if they actually exist?

thanks :)

They do, I have seen a lot around recently -very striking they are too. But of course they are mismarks and not correct according to the breed standard.

ah i see :) in the advert it says they are 'rare' and they are also priced very high too

They're unusual rather than rare, and only priced high by money-grabbers. They've always turned up occasionally in litters, but until recently were usually culled at birth. So they're no more valuable than any other poodle.

They are not rare and should be priced the same as any other poodle.  Parents should be health tested and free from PRA, luxating patella etc.

thanks for clearing that up guys :)

There is a parti coloured standard at our dog club (puppy)

Very, very attractive. Ditto what everyone else comments about 'rarity' :)

> 'rare' and they are also priced very high too

Along with all the other  doodles , oodles and 'rare' mongrels .

tuxedos.  even lol

yeah the exist but they dont fit breed standard, if you look at the original performing french poodles (minis) they were parti coloured, i think they should alow it.
some dont look that good though. most are black and white form a result of breeders trying to get browns and apricots with in their own line with out bringing in new blood.

pari coloured poodles are not mongrels, no dog is a mongrel. i have already explained why there are some parti coloured, its because breeders try to get browns chocolates and apricots in their own line with out brying in other blood.

Hi met some at Crufts this year, they are amazing looking. The owners were campaigning to have them recognised bt the KC as they said they have no under lying health issues, unlike the merle Chihuahua. They had a Mating pair and some of their off spring. They were gorgeous. :)

>They had a Mating pair and some of their off spring. They were gorgeous.

Did you ask whether they were fully health-tested, or just bred for the colour?

>no dog is a mongrel.

Of course they are. I've owned one myself. Any dog which has three or more breeds in its immediate parentage is a mongrel. There's no stigma involved - it's a genetic fact.

I saw them too, I think they had been doing Discover Dogs, but came to the Poodle ring during judging.  Never asked about if they were health tested.  The health issue with merles (Chis or other breeds) is to do with the Merle gene being a "lethal gene" so must not be doubled up on, the issue of partis is compeletly different, and simply comes down to what is in the Standard.  In American Cockers we have a Sable colour, it is not permissible in the breeds native USA, but is to Standard in Canada and over here.  Problem I see with the "unusual colours" is that some breeders start seeing only the colour, not the dog as a whole, and start considering only the liklehood of that colour appearing or being perfected when planning a mating, rather than is it the best potential sire for the bitch overall.  Thus poor conformation and poor temperaments may appear. 

> Hi met some at Crufts this year, they are amazing looking. The owners were campaigning to have them recognised bt the KC .........They had a Mating pair and some of their offspring.   They were gorgeous. :-)  <

Trisha - how did you meet them at Crufts?    To have been there, they must have qualified, therefore the KC must recognise them!

I must admit I also question the idea of a "mating pair" :(

Gwen in reality though aren't they only looking at colour if they don't allow such colours to be shown etc?  I must admit I have two breeds where tris, and black and tans/brown and tans aren't an accepted colour but in neither breed is their a health fault due to the colour, just what somebody many moons ago decided they preferred.

Lokis Mum, I would presume that they were doing DD's.

Doh!   Of course!!!

>Problem I see with the "unusual colours" is that some breeders start seeing only the colour, not the dog as a whole

That's exactly the problem as I see it. When a breeder is deliberately selecting for a particular trait, whether colour, length of tail, density of coat, perfect hips, working ability or whatever, there's a risk of neglecting other aspects of the breed, allowing other problems to become fixed in the line.

But are they really that unusual?  Who knows how many have been culled at birth over the years? 

Also in this day and age where we are getting called for breeding for a certain type, can we carry on not using dogs that may be healthy in every way?  Maybe the KC to ensure that it is not only a fashion thing should ensure that health tests are carried out on them before breeding?

> in reality though aren't they only looking at colour if they don't allow such colours to be shown etc?  I must admit I have two breeds where tris, and black and tans/brown and tans aren't an accepted colour but in neither breed is their a health fault due to the colour, just what somebody many moons ago decided they preferred.

I can't comment on the parti poodle/health issues, although I am not aware a health issue has ever been raised in connection with them.  I was using the Sable colour in my own breed to illustrate the problems which occur when people get hooked on breeding for a colour (especially when that colour may have a much smaller gene pool than generally found colours in the breed).  You get people searching for a stud dog purely based on his colour, with complete disregard to his suitability for their bitch in all other respects.  Both partis in poodles, and Sables in Yankees are a naturally occurring colour (unlike Merles in Chis, or indeed in Yankees, but that is another story, and thankfully only causing a problem in the USA, not over here), I don't know why, when the breed standard was formed in the USA the "founding fathers" decided it was not acceptable to have Sables, nor why it was decided elsewhere to allow them.  However, that being the case, there are not a whole lot of sables around, but many fans of the colour do have a tendency to look no further than Sable colouration, therefore many of the Sables seen are not good specimens of the breed either in conformation or temperament.  This is what I see as a problem when people get hooked on  a single aspect, colour being one that really seems to get some folk going!

but the  name mongrel is so horrible, it implys there is something wrong with them.

Not at all.

"one whose parentage is of unknown or mixed breeds as opposed to purebred."

That is your interpretation of the word. It's merely a description of a dog with a mixed heritage :)

>but the  name mongrel is so horrible, it implys there is something wrong with them.

No, it's not horrible at all. Why should it be? It's a definition, not a judgement.

I love my Mongrel :)

> but the&nbsp; name mongrel is so horrible, it implys there is something wrong with them.

i dont have an issue with the name mongrel either. i actualyy had a cross lab and gsd and he was fantastic but i knew he was a mongrel. he was still a star no matter his parentage

Perhaps we have hit on one of the reasons behind the designer dogs phenomemnon!  The word Mongrel is now seen as derogatory.  Over the years I have owned/known some great mongrels, and no-one every thought any the less of them than a pedigree, and no-one thoght twice about calling them mongrels, it was simply a statement of fact.  Perhpas a little PR for the good old Mongrel is needed to cut across the Designer Dog hype.

I used to own a mongrel. He was wonderful - totally unique! Even in his litter he was the only sandy-coloured one, with all the others being black and white. Marvellous, irreplaceable dog - and a mongrel. :-)

> but the&nbsp; name mongrel is so horrible, it implys there is something wrong with them.

i always refer to dogs who's parentage isnt known as a mongrel - all the oodles doodles cockerpoos etc  (however ridiculous) are cross breeds as the parents are known

> pari coloured poodles are not mongrels, no dog is a mongrel

I am well aware that parti poodles  are not mongrels , and i am well aware that some are deliberately bred for their 'rare' colour.

> no dog is a mongrel

That is your opinion . I have always called cross-breeds 'mongrels' and always will . To me the word mongrel does not say that the dog is lesser because of it's mixed perentage , simply that it is not a pure bred pedigree .  I have had a wonderful mongrel who had a fantastic temperament and was very healthy . I wouldn't think twice about having another .

hi, well i was watching the dog agility and they were walking round the arena and passed behind me. A lady with a big Male. She was handing out leaflets with information on them. I did read it but not too much sank in so sorry can't quote it. I did remeber her saying they were trying to get the colours recognised over here, i think they are recognised in america, but not sure. She also pointed out her daughter in the crowd, she had the bitch but they were constantly talking to people about their poodles. And yes she did also use the phrase mating pair, i suppose she has a pair of poodles which she mates! Sorry so late with reply.....been away. :)

I noticed in the latest Gazette that the KC have now approved the following to be added to the Poodle breed standard:

"Non solid colours are highly undesirable and should be heavily penalised".

Handing out leaflets????  Good grief, if that isn't a BYB then I don't know what is.

I remember a parti-coloured standard winning its class at an open show in Norwich, which caused an uproar in Dog World for the following few weeks.  I'm not in poodles so I cant remember the exact details, but I know it wasn't alone in the class, and it may have got RBOB.  Very striking photo to advertise the win.

The problem with the parti-colours (in horses as well as dogs) is that they are far more difficult to judge on conformation - purely to the broken colour.  If the judge was well knowledgable on the breed then the parti should have one it's class.  If however the judge was new to the breed, I would worry that all the judge saw was the eyecatching markings.  Show winners should without doubt be eyecatching, but hopefully for more than just their markings.  I haven't felt one so I don't know about the coat texture.  I was at HOYS a few years ago and swear a cow won one of the CHAPS classes!