Can a long coat shepherd (with undercoat) now be shown at open/champ shows?
Does it happen?
Not sure I've ever seen one shown but I heard the KC rules have changed...?

Provided it is KC registered, there would be nothing stopping you showing a long-coated GSD ......whether or not it would be placed is a different litter of puppies!

The standard says " No hard and fast rule for length of hair; mole-type coats undesirable". Long coats aren't forbidden - but whether they'd get placed when the standard also says "Outer coat consisting of straight, hard, close-lying hair as dense as possible; thick undercoat. Hair on head, ears, front of legs, paws and toes short; on back, longer and thicker"

If the long coat 'stands-off' and isn't lying close then that would clearly be a fault.

> Can a long coat shepherd (with undercoat) now be shown at open/champ shows?
> Does it happen?
> Not sure I've ever seen one shown but I heard the KC rules have changed...?

You can show your dog, the UK breed standard does not have disqualifying points, there have been longcoats shown at open shows & a White Long coat even won a class(of 1-it was the only dog in the class)at an open show, however depending on the judge, any dog with such an obvious fault could have the placings withheld if it was the only dog in the class(this would happen if I was judging)or not placed if there were other dogs in the class.

The KC rules have not changed, I don't know who told you this, they have now in Germany a separate registry for Long Coated GSDs & will also have separate shows & Korung(breed survey)& longcoats cannot compete against the correctly coated dogs at the shows.

Thanks MM.
Can I ask why you would withold placing if the dog has an undercoat?
Thanks.

For the obvious reason that the dog has a longcoat

Coat

a) The medium smooth coated German Shepherd Dog

The outer coat should be as thick as possible. The individual hairs are straight, coarse and lying flat against the body. The coat is short on the head inclusive of the ears, the front of the legs, the feet and the toes but longer and thicker on the neck. The hair grows longer on the back of the fore- and hind legs as far down as the pastern and the hock joint, forming moderate breeching on the thighs. the length of the hair varies, and due to these differences in length, there are many intermediate forms. A too short or mole like coat is faulty.

b) The long smooth coated German Shepherd Dog

The individual hairs are longer, not always straight and above all not lying close to the body. The coat is considerably longer inside and behind the ears, on the back of the forearm and usually in the loin area. now and then there will be tufts in the ears and feathering from elbow to pastern. The breeching along the thigh is long and thick. The tail is bushy with slight feathering underneath. the long-smooth-coat is not as weatherproof as the medium-smooth-coat and is therefore undesirable; however, provided there is sufficient undercoat, it may be passed for breeding, as long as the breed regulations of the country allow it.

With the long smooth coated German Shepherd Dog, a narrow chest and narrow overstretched muzzle are frequently found.

c) The long coated German Shepherd Dog

The coat is considerably longer than that of the long-smooth-coat. It is generally very soft and forms a parting along the back. The undercoat will be found in the region of the loins or will not be present at all. A long coat is greatly diminished in weatherproofing and utility and therefore is undesirable.

IMHO & my interpretation of the breed standard the long coated GSD is not totally "fit for function" A long coat even with an undercoat will still have a softer than correct coat which will become water logged in bad weather as the undercoat will not be of the same efficacy as that found in correctly coated dogs(This is what I have found over the past 50+ years of owning/handling/training GSDs

MM - can I email you a photo of my GSD please?
Thanks.

Just out of interest, MM, where is that quoted from?

> Just out of interest, MM, where is that quoted from?

The FCI GSD breed standard

The German Breed standard states:

MAKE UP OF THE COAT : The correct coat for the German Shepherd Dog is double coat (Stockhaar) with outercoat and undercoat.  The outercoat should be as dense as possible, straight, harsh and lying close to the body.  On the head, inside ears, on the front side of the legs and on feet and toes, the hair is short; it is slightly longer and more dense on the neck. On the rear side of the legs, the hair is longer extending to the pasterns and the hocks.  It forms moderate « trousers » at the rear of the thighs.

Faults:
- Long outercoat (long, soft, not flat lying top coat with undercoat, feathers on ears and legs, bushy « trousers » and bushy tail with plume underneath (Langstockhaar).

- Long coat (long, soft top coat without undercoat, mostly parted in middle of back, feathers on ears, legs and tail (Langhaar).

> MM - can I email you a photo of my GSD please?

I've sent you my E mail by PM

>> Just out of interest, MM, where is that quoted from?
>The FCI GSD breed standard

Of course UK judges will be judging to the UK breed standard. Interesting information though. :-)

> Of course UK judges will be judging to the UK breed standard. Interesting information though

The UK breed standard is a "b****rd*tion of the German standard sadly, but as the UK KC allow judges to interpret the breed standard themselves(they are not trained to stick rigidly to any breed standard if they were no nervous/aggressive dog would ever get placed) I interpret the UK breed standard in my own way ;-)

Thanks :)

Pity realy as they are so beautiful. Long coats have their own society with their own shows, but do not carry the same weight. I wonder then why breeders charge the same amount for a long coat as they do for the standard coat?I know it costs the breeders the same amount of money to rear long coats as it does for the standard ones but the new owner is severely limited to what can be achieved with the long coat.

I would charge exactly the same for any puppy no matter what the breed as long as it was fit & healthy. New owners don't have to buy a puppy with an incorrect coat, if they are interested in showing then they need to buy the best puppy that fits the breed standard the best. It is only breed showing that isn't worth doing, there's still obedience, WT, flyball, agility, VPG, HTM etc etc All dogs should be companions first & everything else second.

I would never judge my dogs by what they have achieved with them, they are first & foremost my best friends

Moonmaiden Hi,
I tottally agree with you on the summary of the gsd and as I have shown Gsds
for forty years have some experience of our breed alas I am not rule book man.
Perhaps its possible we could have been in the same ring at some time intresting?
As a clue to who I am My top winning Gsd had a famous name.
His name was Thatcher! No more clues.