Hi all,

Me and my partner are thinking about getting a dog, we both love dogs but we want to pick a breed which will be happy with are circumstances and also that we will be happy with.

Ive looked online and done Q&A type things to ascertain which breed is best for me but the results conflict depending on where you go so I'd like a human opinion :)

Me and my partner both work monday - friday, I know this is far from ideal but we need a dog which will be ok left alone during the day (I will be installing a dog flap to a medium sized back garden during the day)

We would prefer a small to medium sized dog due to are house being cozy :)

My wife suffers mild allergies so either a short haired dog (shes fine around my parents jack russell) or a dog which doesnt shed.

We also have 2 rabbits which although they are in a pen I dont want the rabbits scared overly and I dont a want frustrated dog trying to get to them, its not fair on either. so a breed that is ok with them would be essential

Walking the dog is not a problem as we are only 2 mins from a huge park and me and my partner are both active.

Me and my partner both like beagles, but I worry they wont be good with the rabbits or like being alone so long, we also like bichon frise but again im not sure if it would fit are situation, we could do with any recomendations of breeds that would best suit us

Many thanks

Dan

I know it's not the answer you want, but I would very strongly advice against both leaving a dog alone all day, regardless of breed, and having a dog flap leading out into your garden with access when you are not home. Dog thefts are big business these days and dogs unattended in back gardens get stolen all the time -it is far too risky. It happened to a friend of mine and they were even at home, just got called to the front door by a bogus caller whilst the accomplice went round the back and took the dog. Then there is the issue of barking -you cannot control this if you are not at home and the dog can go outside as it pleases -could lead to a lot of neighbour problems.

Hi Dan, welcome to the forum!

The first thing is to realise that no dog, once housetrained, should be left alone for longer than you yourself can last without needing to use the lavatory ... and I'd be very surprised if you can last without needing to relieve yourself during the working day! A puppy, which of course isn't yet housetrained, can't be left for more than about an hour at a time. If you're out of the house for the whole day you'll need to make arrangements for someone to come in at regular intervals to take your dog out for you.

Dogs are predators by nature. If you have rabbits, which are prey animals by nature, you'll need to make sure that the dog is never left unattended with them - and unless trained to tolerate them, it will naturally try to kill them. This wouldn't be the fault of the dog, any more than it would be its fault for breathing.

Ok so the dog flaps a no no.

I know its not ideal leaving the dog at home all day, I know its a bad excuse saying that a lot of people do it. To put it simply, I love dogs and have grown up with and around them my whole life and because I love dogs I would not get one if it really is not a good idea leaving it home alone.

Ive read stuff about if you take the dog for a good long walk before you leave for work the dog will sleep a lot of the time your away and other tips.

I honestly think even though im working all day, I can give a dog a loving and caring home especielly if me and my partner decide , as we have disscussed , to get a rescue dog.

Please be honest about what you think, like I said above I wont get a dog if it really isnt a good idea, but if you think its workable , any suggestion of breed would be appreciated

Thanks

Dan

>because I love dogs I would not get one if it really is not a good idea leaving it home alone.

Think of a dog as being a toddler. Would you leave a toddler alone all day? Would you get a pony or a golden eagle? If not, then don't do it to a dog. It's not fair - wait until your personal circumstances have changed until you can give a dog what it needs to have a happy life.

>Ive read stuff about if you take the dog for a good long walk before you leave for work the dog will sleep a lot of the time your away

Puppies have to be on limited exercise for their irst year to avoid damage to their joints. They only sleep the day away when they're adults, and there's nothing better to do; they can't read a book or watch daytime TV or surf the net! Puppies can't even sleep the day away any more than children can - they have to be doing something.

Sorry jeangenie I missed your post as I was typing my previous post.

If I were to get a dog walker to walk the dog halfway through my working day, would that be enough do you think? and If I laid down the toilet mats for the dog for the remainder of the time would that be ok?

In regard to when the dog is a puppy, how long after bringing the puppy home wold it be ok to leave him/her for the above mentioned times? (please excuse my lack of knowledge) me and my partner discussed taking 2 weeks off each back to back so we could be at home for the first month.

Please be honest and frank with your advice, I can take it :)

Thanks

Dan

All breeds are the same when it comes to leaving them alone -it makes no difference. Your best bet would be to get an adult dog, that is already KNOWN to be okay to be left alone (which can be tricky because many dogs end up in rescue because of separation anxiety -but you may be able to find one via a breeder) and then employ a dog walker to come in twice during the day when you are gone -that could work. Puppies cannot be left alone at all and you can't walk a pup for more than a few minutes a day until it is much older, so there is no way of tiring it out. They also need taking out to toilet every hour in order to become housetrained, and feeding four times a day.

>If I laid down the toilet mats for the dog for the remainder of the time would that be ok?

To be honest, no. The toilet mats teach the dog that's it's okay to pee and poo indoors; if you don't want it to do that fulltime it mustn't be encouraged, because it only confuses the dog. All toileting must be outside.

>how long after bringing the puppy home wold it be ok to leave him/her for the above mentioned times?

I felt confident enough to leave my dogs unattended for the whole day once when the youngest was about 5 years old. For a puppy, expect to take at least a month off (first one of you then the other to avoid using up all your year's holiday entitlement) before you should even consider leaving it for longer.

>Please be honest and frank with your advice, I can take it

Good. :-) With someone home fulltime, watching the pup's every move (to stop it chewing everything in sight, apart from the housetraining issue!), don't expect it to be reliably clean in the house till it's at least 6 months old.

Agin sorry jeangenie I missed your post as I was typing myine.

Thank you for your advice, I will leave getting a dog till my home life changes as you advised (I kinda knew this would be the case deep down)

Its obviously disapointing but I would rather have no dog then an unhappy one, and I can always go round my parents and see their 3 dogs :)

Thanks

Dan

I think you're right. I'd love another puppy, but my circumstances aren't right - unless we win the lottery we'll have to wait until one of us is retired.

I think you would need to arrange some daycare for it to be possible-say if you had someone coming in twice a day to walk the dog for an hour or so or spend some time with him/her it might possibly work but only with an adult dog that was used to being left and with a laid back personality-not a puppy.A beagle would certainly not be a good idea as they just require too much mental stimulation.A bichon might work but bear in mind the large amounts of grooming required plus regular(every 6 weeks or so)visits to the groomer.I would look into what doggie daycare is available and the cost involved and take it from there.Bear in mind though that most rescues won't home to people working all day.I know we all(or most of us) have to work-I am lucky that 3 of my dogs come to work with me,the 4th goes to my mother's-but I know how hard it is for people who can't do this.

Sorry Dankent, the honest answer is that a cat would be more suited to the lifestyle you are proposing. Rescue dogs often need much more care and attention than others because they have come from traumatic backgrounds--even the best rescue kennel is still a traumatising environment relative to a loving household where the dog has choices--where he sleeps, who he seeks out, etc.

My dogs did indeed sleep most of the day after a long (4 hr) walk last weekend, but that was mainly because they could curl up with us and know everything was 'right' in their world.  I notice that when they are left for even an hour or two (which very seldom happens) 'puppy' behaviour returns and they tend to eat things that remind them of me...shoes, a duvet and a cardigan being recent casualties.

I have lots of sympathy with your predicament. It's no comfort, but I waited 20 years before I could keep dogs again while I got through being a single working parent. It was only going freelance and working from home that allowed me to consider keeping dogs  again, and now every day feels like Christmas.

There are options--dog walkers, doggy day care, a neighbour who may be able to help--but don't forget that as much as you want a dog, you have to consider the dog's needs too. Good luck.

Sorry Dan, I have to agree with everyone, and I also agree that you need a cat not a dog.

Dogs are social creatures, they are naturally part of a pack, they do not enjoy being solitary at all, those forced into it will sleep and be bored, or they will make their own entertainment and become destructive or bark at every sound to give themselves some kind of amusement.

How about fostering a dog over the weekend, get intouch with dog rescues or another good idea guide dogs for the blind desperately need people to look after their dogs whilst in training, they like to give their dogs a taste of home life aswell, until they are fully trained and placed they live in normal homes on and off, it may be worth giving them a call to see whether you could have a dog over the weekends for them.  I know someone who does this. :-)

Its obviously disapointing but I would rather have no dog then an unhappy one, and I can always go round my parents and see their 3 dogs

Bless you, how refreshing that you are putting a dogs needs before your own :-)

So many people get a dog for their needs usually some maternal need for something to love and cuddle, alas never thinking that the dog needs so much more than that, and often getting a terrible shock that they need time, effort, training and attention themselves, and only realising later that reality is not so much fun.

A dog/pup should only be brought into a home if the dogs full needs are met.

Thank you so much for being sensible and thinking of the dog. :-)

If you don't fancy the weekend fostering idea though it is really rewarding and you'll get lots of joy from doing it, when I was first married and we both worked full time we had cats, there are plenty of house cats, we had a lovely big Maine Coon, he was so affectionate and they are perfectly happy about being left, though kittens need more attention so the time off to start with would probably still be appropriate, and of course you don't need to worry about the toileting a litter tray is all you need. (That's if your partners allergies are not affected by cats too) But cats can be so loving and it would ease the pining for a dog a little, if not completely. :-)

Hi,

I think the fact that you are taking peoples advice on board says a lot for the kind of dog owner you would be :-) Personally I don't like the idea of a lone house cat being left a lone for a full working day any more than a dog, if they have another for company it's a bit different.  House cats often beome very owner focussed and love company and can become bored without company and entertainment especially as mentioned above if they are kittens.  I've got two and they are very dog like, one even plays fetch, they both follow me around and do the 'doggie' waiting outside the bathroom door :-D

I don't usually say this as hate dogs being left alone all day but I think given that you are clearly going to put the dogs needs first that with the right planning and the right dog (not a puppy or young dog) you may be able to make it work!  I don't suppose the idea of a retired grey hound would appeal?  If you were to get a slightly older dog and make sure that you had a dog walker to come in half way through the day and that your hours outside work were focussed around the dog then it could be perfectly possible. 

Retired greyhounds by and large are very happy to snooze their days away inbetween good walks.  As long as you provided the appropriate physical and mental stimulation and the dog had breaks to go to the toilet and they had access to a comfy sofa it would be a lot of Greyhounds idea of heaven.  You could get a dog that had been in a foster home so that you know what the dog is happy with in terms of alone time.  A lot of rescues will rehome older dogs that are happy with snoozing in a comfy spot inbetween walks, plays and toilet breaks to working homes provided they have someone come in to see the dog half way through the day.  Good luck what ever you decide :-)

if they have another for company it's a bit different.

I would normally agree with you 100% that cats/especially kitten should always be in pairs, I've always bought my cats in pairs, but when we had the Maine Coon, I had to buy a cat to go with our other Moggie as the Maine Coon was completely independant, wanted nothing to do with any cat, I really don't know if that is a breed trait or was just our particular Maine Coon. He was very much owner focussed as you've said he was a people, not cat, cat.  My mother would sometimes pop in to check on him (as unlike the other cats he did not go outdoors) and he would completely ignore her and just go back to sleep, cats will quite happily sleep throughout the working day. I found him completely different to our other cats in his needs with regards to company he was a complete loaner, wouldn't even sit with my husband or other family members infact he would take himself off to another room, he was a one owner cat, as I fed him, he was mine. :-)

But once I was home he was my shadow.

but when we had the Maine Coon, I had to buy a cat to go with our other Moggie as the Maine Coon was completely independant, wanted nothing to do with any cat, I really don't know if that is a breed trait or was just our particular Maine Coon. He was very much owner focussed as you've said he was a people, not cat, cat.

That´s what we found too, essentially. My breeds are Persians and Exotics, but my husband wanted an MC neuter to show so bought one 7 years ago. Having had problems in the past with having one cat as the odd one out (my ex husband had Siamese, Balinese, Devon at various times) we kept saying we should get another MC to play safe. Eventually got a rescue ex breeding queen. Well they have absolutely nothing to do with each other, ever. Totally ignore each other. The male can be quite bad tempered with other cats but loves kittens, they're the only cats he gets on with really (he prefers the dogs), other than that both the MCs are people cats only and truly are hubby's cats, very close to him.

I don't have a problem with selling a single kitten to people who work -some just prefer a single one rather than a pair. Looking around here now, I'm at home, yet every single cat is asleep, doing nothing. Cats come to life in the evening and tend to sleep during the day whether there is anyone at home or not.

cats will quite happily sleep throughout the working day

But that's what so many people say about dogs, I hear it all the time, 'he's quite happy, all he does is sleep while I'm out anyway' :-)  They will sleep through the day but that doesn't mean they are as happy or content as they would be with some company, feline or human or even canine sometimes.  Of course there are exceptions just as with dogs but for the most part they enjoy company and stimulation, even more so for house cats.  I was away for a week a couple of weeks ago and my cats apparently didn't do much other than sleep and they ate less than normal, probably because they were less active because I wasn't around to do anything with them, my Dad (occasional cat sitter) would have thought they were perfectly content but knowing them they were pretty listless when I got back.

I've got a Burmese and a Siamese, the Burmese came first and when I got the Siamese, well after 3 months of pure evil from Rica, I really thought I'd made a mistake but eventually they settled and are now best of buddies (most of the time) where you find one you find the other :-)

I don't know much about Maine Coons but a couple of friends have them and they are very sociable cats with their other cats and dogs, however one of the friends does say he can be very independant and the relationship is definitely as the cats chooses :-D

ETA,My Burmese has just come and plonked her self down on my lap for a cuddle, while I'm typing and while she will snuggle up with Tanzie she is at her happiest on my lap!

Thank you for all the advice, its much appreciated.

I have to be honest Im not really a cat person, coupled with the fact that my partners allergies seem to react worse to cats (not persians) then even the heavist shedding dogs, so cats are probably out the question...... I say this but my partner is 110% a cat person, its funny when we go round my freinds house she quite happily sits and plays with their cats while sneezing and weezing away with a massive grin on her face lol.

The idea of fostering a dog over the weekends seems absoloutly perfect! does anyone know who best to contact about this? should I just start by calling my local dog shelter? again thank you for all your advice

Oh and just to appease the mrs, apart from persians, is there any breed of cat which doesn't affect allergy sufferers?

Dan

Cats come to life in the evening and tend to sleep during the day whether there is anyone at home or not.

That's never been my experience any more than it is with dogs, and many people say the same thing, the dogs sleep all day and come to life in the evening when the owners are home.  However I have always done plenty with my cats making sure they fulfil natural instincts and use their brains cats enjoy clicker training just as much as dogs do!!  For me this has always resulted in cats that are quite active and interactive.  Of course there are times when I'm home and they are snoozing, both dogs and cats (I couldn't cope without that :-D) but it's because they are content and tired rather than because that's what they have got used to and don't have anything else to do,  and if it's possible they will generally choose to snooze on or by me.

I've seen quite a few problems with bored unhappy house cats and I personally feel that a lot of cats certainly are lunderstimulated and ess content than they could be because people don't look into cat behaviour nearly as much as they do with dogs.  If a cats snoozing all day then it must be happy enough, yet we all accept that a dog snoozing all day when it's owner is at work is down to the fact that they have little other options when they are left.  They get into a routine and then when the owners are home the same thing happens as with cats.  Sorry if I've gone a little off topic!

Oh and just to appease the mrs, apart from persians, is there any breed of cat which doesn't affect allergy sufferers

Ooh I'm not sure but I think Devon and Cornish Rexs are supposed to be good for allergy sufferers and are soo lovely!  There's also Sphynx cats but I'm guessing they won't appeal to everyone :-D

Sorry to go off topic Dankent.

making sure they fulfil natural instincts

:-D :-D  Well I'm just looking at my cat right now who is outside as he has been throughout this warm weather and he is curled up under a tree snoozing away. My outdoor cats are left to do as they please which means it is as natural as can be, they come and go through the cat flap whenever they wish, if we are looking at a cat in it's absolute natural state, I can honestly say, indoors or outdoors mine are generally asleep in the day time they may have a little wander around but they come alive at night when they do their hunting and bring me their morning presents. Yuk!

I think it is wonderful that you clicker train your cats and keep them active, particularly for indoor cats, lets face it you can't really be doing that at 2am, so I guess your making sure they are kept active and stimulated but I think that is more to do with your consideration for them rather than a natural instinct for the time of day. IMO the day time is generally snooze time. Seasonal changes do affect mine though and they will generally sleep at the bottom of our bed all through the night (usually on my feet :-D ) in the winter and go out in the daytime, so a role reversal.

does anyone know who best to contact about this? should I just start by calling my local dog shelter? again thank you for all your advice


There are so many Dan, to be honest your probably better off in using a search engine like google for your county, just put in dog fostering for your area and you will get plenty of hits. They will most probably give you a home visit and then the world is your oyster, there are so many dogs which would love a home for the weekend, someone to give them some one to one attention, a nice walk and make them feel special for a while.

Good luck! :-)

On the cat front I have 3 Devon Rex cats who are known to not cause allergies.  They are great fun and actually act like dogs - play fetch, come running when called, create noise when you come in the house until you fuss them and love a good cuddle....however they are best bought in pairs as they love company and play all the time.

> and I can always go round my parents and see their 3 dogs :-)
>

dan are your parents close? might i suggest if they are considering a baby sitting arrangement during the day?

> Ooh I'm not sure but I think Devon and Cornish Rexs are supposed to be good for allergy sufferers and are soo lovely

A myth I'm afraid.

If you want lazy good natured teddy bears then the British Shorthair is the cat for you and they come in a whole myriad of colours & coat patterns.  Or the very gorgeous Selkirk Rex - but then I'm biased as these are my 2 breeds.

On the cat front I have 3 Devon Rex cats who are known to not cause allergies.  They are great fun and actually act like dogs - play fetch, come running when called, create noise when you come in the house until you fuss them and love a good cuddle....however they are best bought in pairs as they love company and play all the time.

You lucky thing :-) I have only met a couple and they were just gorgeous but I couldn't remember if they were Devon or Cornish, the lady said she had chosen them partly because of her sons allergies.  One of them was a gorgeous red/orange colour - I would love one one day!

Good luck with the fostering plan, it's a really worth while and rewarding experience :-)

Hi Dan
Well, I think what everyone has said on here is good advice, and having someone at home all day with your dog is the best thing, BUT, not always possible, and when I had my first dog both myself and OH were working full time, and out of the house the majority of the day.  But we made it work and our dog was happy.

It was difficult to juggle, but we did have a dog walker that came in every lunch time and when he was a puppy she used to just play with him for an hour, and either in the morning or afternoon the neighbours would come in and let him out for a toilet break, and my OH would also come home most days to let him out and give him some attention, it was sometimes stressful making sure everyone could do this everyday and it was quite expensive, but it worked for us and him. We made a point of finding dog friendly pubs/restaurants so that when we went out for a meal in the week he came with us, and he came on holiday with us too.  Fortunately after 2 years I was able to work from home so spent lots of time with him.

In a perfect world we would all be at home with our dogs and even our children, but life is not perfect and most of us have to go out to work. 

It can work if you and your partner are prepared to put in the effort.  To me you sound as though you would give a dog a very good home.

Ok, just to keep you up to date on the situation....

Thank you everyone who has offered potential solutions to me getting a dog full time, but I dont think its feasable at the moment and not fair on the dog.

So that leaves me 2 options really, fostering dogs over the weekends or getting a cat..... me and my partner sat down last night a talked about both options and as you can probably guess which way we were both edging, me being a dog person and my wife being a cat person.

After talking about it, my partners main concern was getting to attached to a foster dog then having to let it go, I must admit even myself being a pragmatic bloke, the idea of going through that on a semi regular basis would be hard.

Ive gone through the trauma and heartache of losing a dog (passed on from old age) when I was still at home with my parents, and although it would be no where near as bad, even 1% of that pain, but semi regually does not appeal.

I know that may seem selfish as the rewards from helping a dog in need are immense, but as I said above my partner is 110% a cat person and well..... I will admit that I am under the thumb :) and once the cat is older we will look into fostering dogs as well (aslong as they are ok with cats)

So with the decision being made that a cat is the right way to go we did a bit of research about allergies and how to deal with them, as no cat is truly hypoallergenic all sources recommend a short haird cat, top recomendations were British short haired, siamese, tonkenese and devon rex's, a article we read even highly recommended bathing your cat every 4-6 weeks as this reduces allergin.

So with those breeds being priority, which do you think would best suit are circumstances as mentiond in my original post? thank you

Dan

I would just like to point out that you cant leave a kitten all day on its own. So a rescue cat would be better, my mum just took in a rescue cat and is over the moon with her. If you go to the RSPCA your cat will be spayed and health cheeked and there are a lot lovely older cats who really need a home.

> Seasonal changes do affect mine though and they will generally sleep at the bottom of our bed all through the night (usually on my feet :-D ) in the winter and go out in the daytime, so a role reversal

LOL, my cat sleeps ALL the time in the winter!

In the nice weather she spends the biggest part of the day alseep in the garden, (in a plant pot!!!) or the inside on the window-sill (with her head hanging out side!). She'll have the odd potter around, mostly when she moves to come and get some food, then back to sleep. She has a mad hour about 10pm when she'll zoom around the garden in & around the house like a tornado, then back out again, this goes on for about 20 mins. Through the night (she is kept in at night) she spends most of her time hunting moths, I often get woken up by a loud 'plonk' as she's jumped up at the wall to catch a bug & landed on the floor with a bang.
In the winter, she spends most of her day inside, sleeping on the sofa and sometimes will even get on my lap, she's not friendly, I daren't stroke her while she's on me, I have no illusions that she does it for affection, LOL, she is simply looking for a warm place to curl up! She'll spend her winter nights curled up on my sons bed, on the top bunk, she pretty much hibernates!!

I've always had moggies (apart from only 2 years of my life), even when I've had more than one at a time, I've found, as adults, they do not bother with each other atall, they prefer to go out & do thier own thing and they have all tended to sleep through the day and be active at night.
My sister has 5 cats (moggies), they are all completely independant of each other and all do thier own thing, infact the smallest is given a very wide-berth by the rest as she HATES her 'space' being invaded, even by a cat just walking close to her (she'll bop 'em on the head & chase them off).

Every person is different as are their allergies, I used to be allergic to dogs, but am absolutley fine with long haired dogs now, but I still find labradors and some GSD's make me sneeze and itchy!  Sometimes with cats I find the ones with softer coats rather than coarse coats are best, so you need to find out which hair/type of coat causes the problems before getting your cat.

Hi there! Siberian cats are apparently very good for people who have allergies.... a lot of people sell them as hypoallergenic which is obviously rubbish... but some people with severe allergies find them not to be a problem.

I have one called Moose, he's the most loving and affectionate thing, more like a dog.... and he comes for a walk on a lead with the dogs.... actually I think he probably thinks he is one.