This is not specifically for rottie owners but I am looking for recommendations from people who have dogs with similar shaped heads. 

My pup is now coming up for 8 months and an absolute gem but like most pups wants to play with everyone and all dogs.  I am on occassion having a struggle to control him when I have both dogs and we are walking in the street or in the park and he is on lead when other dogs run up to him.  It is the usual story of the little old lady who wants to give him biscuits and the teens and macho men who want to rough him about - the poor pup then attempts to do the boisterous bit to the old ladies who tell me it's fine he is just being friendly.  no matter how much I tell them it is not fine and won't be fine when he weighs 9stone and could break their hip when it is snowy if they or I slip they won't listen.

he is going to training and is a gem at training and walking on the lead usually unless there is a major distraction so it is the distractions I need to work on and training the old ladies!

So, to get to the point I am thinking of introducing a head collar in the mean time and am looking for recommendations.  I know that there have been loads of threads in the past and themes have often related to riding up in the dogs eyes, the dog pawing it off or escaping etc.

Ideally I don't want to have to pad the muzzle of the collar with material to stop it rubbing and don't want him to lose any fur on his nose but do want a bit more control without him being uncomfortable.  He is an 8 month rottie with a wide broad head - any suggestions.

I had problems with one of mine not liking any type of collar and i had no control on just a harness so i bought a dogmatic. The leather one, best thing i ever did. Takes a while for them to get used to but even my strongest bitch can easily be controlled. I have quite large danes but there is a size up from this aswel so you will most definately get one to fit your boy. Excellent quality also.

I have just had a browse, do you have the real leather or synthetic leather one?

I am a bit baffled by it all as they all claim to not ride up, to be award winning etc.  The thing that is putting me off the dogmatic is the patterns on them

IMO i would stear clear of the teens and macho men who want to rough him about and try to put some training into him while his still young and you can still manage him ,
and if he bit the lady in play maybe it because he thought she was one of the teens who were going to have a rough play with him hows the dog to know the differance , i never let people play or rough play with my dogs they can pet them and if my dogs were to jump up on them they would be told i used to make friends turn their backs on my dogs if they went and jumped up this worked great on my rottie he was a dream to train the bullys a bit more of a challange,

i think you should make walks yours and your dogs time and make yourself the most interesting thing your dog will have by playing with him maybe take a fav toy of his and keep his focous on you, if people going by are going to be playing and praising him each time you go out then i think he will always be dragging you around to each person to play rough and tumble games ,

I have the leather one. Its really good quality. And not that much more than the fabric. They are very very helpful over the phone also if you are concerned over size.

> IMO i would stear clear of the teens and macho men who want to rough him about and try to put some training into him while his still young and you can still manage him ,

He goes to training and we also try to train in the park in the mornings when we are out - it is not the case that there is no training.  I am looking for a harness as a training aid not an alternative to putting in hard work.

> and if he bit the lady in play maybe it because he thought she was one of the teens who were going to have a rough play with him hows the dog to know the differance , i never let people play or rough play with my dogs they can pet them and if my dogs were to jump up on them they would be told i used to make friends turn their backs on my dogs if they went and jumped up this worked great on my rottie he was a dream to train the bullys a bit more of a challange,

he has great bite inhibition and does not bite anyone in play - old lady or otherwise.  I feel the issue is that he doesn't know his own strength.  the big lump knocked me flat on my face in the park last week by coming up behind me and nudging me behind the knees.  Thankfully it was 6.30am so only a few hardy dog walkers around to witness by fall from grace lol. :)

>
> i think you should make walks yours and your dogs time and make yourself the most interesting thing your dog will have by playing with him maybe take a fav toy of his and keep his focous on you, if people going by are going to be playing and praising him each time you go out then i think he will always be dragging you around to each person to play rough and tumble games ,

He is a very independent boy and is only interested in toys for a short period.  I have been gradually introducing him to street walking as he has a fear of traffic and the idea is for him to have lots of positive experiences on the street to negate the effect the cars were having on him.  the idea of using a headcollar is to make this more controllable for me so he can still meet people and not be a 1 person dog which I definitely don't want with a breed like that.  The more sociable he is (in a controlled manner) the less likely he is to view people as a threat or go on the defensive.  I don't have problems walking him in the park (unless other dogs run up to us when mine are on the lead) but don't intend to be hanging about the park in the dead of winter at night or at scary o'clock in the morning.

thanks for your input though

i've a halti for tio and its fine but i think it depends on the shape of the head.

they are really helpful though

> The more sociable he is (in a controlled manner) the less likely he is to view people as a threat or go on the defensive

if you need a stoodge cuddler i'm available lol

the big lump knocked me flat on my face in the park last week by coming up behind me and nudging me behind the knees. lol :-) been their myself,

its worse when they slam you in the front of you knees almost pushing your knee caps right up Ouchh!

my rotties very sociable but i wouldnt want other teens roughing him up he's a gentle giant so i guess i didnt have to worry about restraints  with him, maybe my younger bully could use one at times he's a fiesty little bully at times but is still better to train than his mum was ,

lol sorry again i thought you said he bit he lady i miss read your post sorry i get it iv just re read it, lol,
im going to bed i must be growing weiry,

My 3 rotties are all walked on halties, they do ride up a bit, but it never gets as far as the eyes. If I walk mine individually i don't need any type of head collar the leads can just be clipped to their collars, it's when I walk 2 or more that it's needed.

Dogmatic all the way!

I tried a Halti first but it used to end up in their eyes! The Dogmatic is nice and soft and doesn`t ride up at all (I bought the fabric ones with the gaudy prints on!).And they are really helpful if you ring them :)

It was CD that made my mind up about the Dogmatic....I did a search on here and found some really helpful comments from older posts about them.

I have them for the Rotties and the Komondor and they are a good fit, no rubbing, no riding up and no fur loss on the noses like the Halti used to. They are easy to use and had an instant effect on my lot... I walk 1 Rott and the Kom and OH walks the other Rott all side by side without a problem apart from rubber neckers gauping as they drive by and nearly crashing!

HTH xx

> If I walk mine individually i don't need any type of head collar the leads can just be clipped to their collars, it's when I walk 2 or more that it's needed.

Snap!!


My lot are exactly the same, you just feel you have that extra control with more than one when they have the head collars on.

> He is an 8 month rottie with a wide broad head - any suggestions.

I use a halti on Buster which has room to be adjuted even larger, so you should easly find one to fit your young Rottie :)

I don't find the hatli rides up because I only ever use it as 'power steering' or 'emergency brake' when he is getting OTT excited with greeting people. I use a collar & a harness (1 lead on each), also the halti, which only has a very light lead and it is either tucked out of the way in his harness or gently looped over my litte finger on my right hand (I hold all leads in right hand & walk Buster on my right side, leaving my left hand free for treating :) ). If somebody wants to greet Buster or he is gettting excited about something (generally a person coming in our direction that looks like they will stop to greet him), then I will take hold of the lead to the halti in my left hand and use it to stop him jumping up and generally to get a bit of control over his head (when verbal commands/distraction etc. are not working!)

It sounds like you are going through the same as I did, when Buster hit 7 months old he exploded into this loony that I could barely control on the lead, he just wanted to play & greet everybody, up untill then I only walked him on a collar, but after nearly being pulled over I invested in the harness (i don't like him choking himself if he pulls when he's being silly) and the halti, since then I have made bags of progress with meeting people & dogs, because it gave me confidance back to not avoid situations as I knew I could control him physically if training went out of the window (which it often appears to do, with young, playfull dogs!), so we could practice training in those situations instead of me concentrating to just try to stay on my feet.

I use a canny collar on my large youngster and cannot recommend it enough.

http://www.cannyco.co.uk/

I only use it when were in busy places. He has always walked really nicely on the lead and he is really gentle, but he can, at times, get over excited when people want to stoke him. He normally draws a bit of a crowd and people seem to think it's OK to just let their kids hug, the teddy bear dog, without so much as a hello. His canny collar lets me feel more in control and helps keep his paws on the ground.
Of course if people would use a little common sense then I wouldn't need it at all.

I have a dogmatic and although it doesnt ride up the face and into the eyes it is not as effective as the halti was. I leant it out to somebody and never got it back!! But i got a sythetic leather which doesnt go smelly when they take a dip in the pond. It doesnt have your traditional fastener either its like a belt buckle but without the pin if you see what i mean, its never come undone but it does work its way loose, he doesnt pull like a train though he just tires the arm out when he is walked without it. It was quite pricey too almost 3 times the cost of a halti, i got size 7 for him which fits well. Never used a canny collar but may try it out if my pup starts the pulling game or for when she is old enough and im walking all 3.

Louise

Right another one here for a leather Dogmatic. I used to have a halti, thought it was ok until a friend gave me a dogmatic, wow what a difference in control i have compared to the halti. I know my breed i slightly longer in the muzzle but they work wonders. My friend who has Newfie's also uses them. A friend with a Spin has also tried both and prefers the Dogmatic as it doesn't ride up into the eyes and is slightly padded on the muzzle area. You can also sew in some fleece around the muzzle area so not to rub the fur - seen a few setter people do this with theirs.

We have just bought a canny collar for our setter (she is a puller!) and we are quite impressed with it so far. She doesn't get as agitated as she did on the halti and the gentle leader so it doesn't go near her eyes.
It may not be so bad now but when we used a halti with our first bernese in the 90's we overheard quite a lot of people saying 'oh that dog has a muzzle on, it must bite' and it was quite upsetting as he was a really sweet dog, that, like the OP's dog, was just a bit too boisterous when meeting people.

I really like the way the canny collar attaches to the lead behind the head, it is so much kinder on the dogs neck. I wouldn't go back to one which clips on under the chin now.

>> if you need a stoodge cuddler i'm available lol

anytime, we are just round the corner from your work :)

thanks to everyone for their input, I am more confused than ever.  At the moment it is between the dogmatic and the canny collar so i will go and measure up for both and see how it goes.  Thanks

Another Dogmatic convert here  too..  leather all the way, had mine for yrs and still as good as new

I bought the padded webbing one and it arrived yesterday so I have been putting it on him regularly and rewarding him with biscuits and ham etc.  He didn't seem fazed by it in the least until I took him outside in it today and he wouldn't move.  He stood stock still and couldn't even be tempted with biscuits.  He looked so doleful I wanted to hug him.

Should I persist using this method or just take it with me on walks and put it on him when he is playing up?  I don't want it to be like a punishment but if it is anything like my mum's slipper when I was a child I only had to see it coming off her foot and I started behaving again.  Is using it as a deterrant the wrong way to go?

> so it is the distractions I need to work on and training the old ladies!
>

When an old lady approaches, have you thought about just shouting really loudly  ATTACK!!

Apologies cheekychow, but I couldn't resist.  ;-)  :-)

> When an old lady approaches, have you thought about just shouting really loudly  ATTACK!!

LOL!!!! :-D

> He didn't seem fazed by it in the least until I took him outside in it today and he wouldn't move.  He stood stock still and couldn't even be tempted with biscuits.  He looked so doleful I wanted to hug him.
>

Ahh, bless him.

You've done well with getting him used to the headcollar with treats indoors :) You now need to make that same positive association outside of the house. You could try in the garden/sitting on your front doorstep with him with the headcollar on & lots of treats/ taking him out on his usual collar & lead with the headcollar on, but not holding the lead to it (un-clip it/tuck it out of the way) see if that makes any difference. You could take it with you and try it on him for very short spells at different places along the walk, preferably somewhere he really enjoys, eg, a favorite 'sniffing gound' as that will help build on the positive association.

You are right, if you force him to walk with the headcollar on when he's not happy about it, he will see it as some sort of punishment/deterant and be very confused by the whole thing, defiantely not what you want to acchieve.
You don't want him to think of the headcollar as a deterant, you want it as an aid to training him, if he thinks of it as a deterant, any training done with it on will not necessarily apply when he isn't wearing it.

I take my girl a walk with a dogmatic on also a half check collar, I,ve got a double ended trigger lead from dogmatic which is nonslip and fantastic.
If I meet someone coming with another dog I just clip one end of the lead to the dogmatic and when we,ve got past then undo it and just have her on the collar.
I never leave the dogmatic on whilst she,s running free.

May be worth putting it on him to have a really good game in the garden, other idea would be take it with you and put it on for a few mins when you are either well away from home or actually on the way back home.
Chris