Hi all,

I know I am probably going to be judged on what I write here but hey ho.

Me and my partner have a 3 year old Border Terrier, Dougie and a one year old Irish Setter, Ruby, who live in harmony together.

Two months ago after a lot of discussion and deliberation we decided to get a kitten to add to our brood, I know a lot of people would question that choice with us owning a terrier but Dougie had been in close contact with cats many a time and if anything had been a little scared so although we knew that initially close supervision with both dogs would be needed, we didn't think that either dogs would be aggressive with the cat.

We brought home the kitten and Dougie immediately showed somewhat confusing behaviour, not once did he growl or bark, but he was obsessed with the cat, so we settled the cat in one of the rooms upstairs and used a baby gate at the bottom of the stairs with boards so that the cat couldn't get through and shut them in their respective rooms when we was out and monitored them closely.

After two months of constant monitoring and many many sessions of trying to socialise the dog and cat, we decided on saturday that this was not to be and made the very difficult decision to rehome the kitten.

This was not to be however. Yesterday the dogs were in the kitchen and the cat was upstairs with me, the baby gate was closed, I was cleaning out his room and switched on the hoover. Normally this did not bother the cat and he was doing his usual zooming around from room to room. I remember the dog barking but didn't think much to it as my sister was due round and I just assumed it was her (he is a "barky" dog), I then realised I couldn't see the cat but assumed he was in his favourite place under the bed sat on a box under there.

I continued to hoover, and when I had finished went downstairs and outside, to find Dougie with the kitten in his mouth. The kitten did not have a mark on him, I can only assume Dougie shook him to death.

I am not writing this for sympathy, but I feel so incredibly guilty. I keep asking myself why I didn't go and see what the dog was barking at and why when I couldn't see the kitten didn't I go and check he wasn't downstairs, but he knew that he should go through the closed baby gate.

I am finding it very hard to deal with, I feel like I have let this little baby down so much.

I know I am opening myself up to critisism by writing this, but I just wanted to know if anyone else had gone through such a terrible experience and how they dealt with it because I hate myself so much right now.

Thanks.

Nicki xx

hi nikki, big hugs to you, it sounds like a complete accident to me, and no one should judge you, accidents do happen, i know people that have cats and terrier dogs and they live in harmony, you was trying to do the right thing in keeping them seperated, and you should not blame yourself at all. It sounds terrible but maybe your terrier wanted just to play with the kitten and was just a bit too rough, i know a friends dog that lives with rabbits and normally they would share the garden but one day the dog wanted to play with one of the rabbits and jumped on his back which killed the rabbit but the dog could not understand why the rabbit stopped playing with him, it was a pure accident.

I'm really sorry. I have had cats and dogs together for more years than I can remember, but in October 2007 I had an adult male dog returned to me that I had bred. He had not been used to cats since we sold him but was used to cats for his first 14 weeks of life. For the first few weeks he spent all his time just staring at the cats. In fact he could never relax, all he ever did was stand and stare. I didn't think a lot of it as I'd never had a problem with cats and dogs, and of course the cats were all so used to dogs. But in January 2008 I suddenly heard a cat scream and ran into the kitchen and there was this dog with the cat in his mouth. I managed to get her off him and she LOOKED unharmed, but when I put her on the floor she collapsed. We rushed her to the vet and he found a small puncture wound deep inside the fur -it had punctured her chest and air was entering it and the risk was a lung was punctured too. So it is very difficult to find a toothmark and even just one can do a lot of damage. Now I was with the dog within seconds, but despite that, this much damage was done. The cat survived, but that was just pure luck -the lung was unharmed and after a night at the vets and 6 weeks isolation to allow two broken ribs to heal, she was fine. But the outcome could just as easily have been the same as yours.

As I have more cats than dogs and plenty of both, I had to find a way to keep both (would have been unfair to rehome this dog again) and did -but it does mean this particular dog can never, ever be allowed anywhere near cats. After this incident he started going for cats at every opportunity so he can never get ANY opportunity. Interestingly the cat knows exactly which dog did it despite there being 5 of the same breed -she is not at all scared of four of them but when she sees the fifth (through the windows when he is outside) she will hiss at him.

So I guess what I am saying is -don't feel too bad -it happens, it probably would not have made any difference if you had got there quicker, and the important thing is to learn from it and make sure it doesn't happen again.

I haven't been through the same awful situation as you but I have done things that have left me feeling guilty.

My last dog got run over by a car (amazingly he survived), it was preventable, he escaped through a door as it was opened. We knew he would try to bolt out (he was an entire recue with a mission to roam :( ), so should have paid extra attention. We were lucky in that he never caused a road accident and he survived the ordeal, but I still felt so guilty.

The same dog was taken to the vets for an emergency appointment to have a fishing hook removed from his snout, fishing kit had been left in the hallway & the rod bag was partly undone, the dog jumped up to catch the bait off the rod (a dog biscuit - how ironic!) and hooked himself on the barbed hook. Again, completely preventable :( It could have been a lot worse if he actually swallowed the hook.

I can't judge you in a bad way, you have said that you made the decision to re-home the kitten, which is a really responsible thing to do. Not investigating a bark when you have a barking dog is no big deal, I'm sure there are plenty of times your dog barks and you don't rush to see why.
How awfull that this should happen, and preventable with hindsight, but unfortunatley accidents do happen and we do things, or don't do things that we should have, sometimes we are lucky and nothing really awfull comes of it, other times the price is paid in a life :(
I don't have any advice as to how you can deal with it, but I'm so sorry for your loss.

So sorry for your sad loss. Please don't upset yourself on how other people will think. They don't matter. You did your best by separating the dogs and the kitten. Unfortunately some dogs will catch and kill kittens and cats. It's not just Terriers that will do this. I had a dog that would chase cats and I brought a kitten into the household. The dog tried to eat the cat the first few times they met. With a lot of hard work and total supervision we managed to get the 2 to live quite happily together, but any other cat was fair game (if I didn't notice it in time :-( ) It's not very nice for you to find your kitten this way but it isn't your fault. You are only human, and accidents can and will happen. I wouldn't recommend that you get another cat though,  now that you are aware of the problem.

Don't blame yourself - it sounds like you did everything right in terms of trying to introduce them, and had made the decision to rehome when things didn't work out. Accidents sometimes happen, no matter how careful we are, and everyone makes mistakes. I have made plenty, including ones that have left injuries and big regrets. The important thing is not to do the same thing again. Hugs.

I haven't been in a situation as awful as you Nicki, but i have been in a situation that maybe i could have prevented.  My neighbours had 3 rabbits and they escaped into our back garden, i heard our Lurcher barking but i was in the front garden and assumed he was barking for me.  He obviously had taken hold of one rabbit after the other, they were all still alive but the vet couldn't save them.

Anyway what happened to you was an accident, you must be in bits about it but when it happened it, it must have happened in such a short time frame.  Accidents happen in a second and with hindsight we'd all have a solution. 

I'm really sorry for your loss.

There but for the grace of God go many of us. Sounds to me you were as careful as you could be and it was just a very sad accident.

My oldest Beardie is the most laid back dog you could meet when new next door neighbours moved in the first I knew about them having a cat was when it walked under Cava's legs in my garden he was fine and the cat became a regular visitor. So when I got rats I had no worries about Cava being near them until the day they were free ranging and only me being very quick stopped Cava pouncing on them!!

He will never be left alone with them or be in the room when they are free again . It's only luck that I learned my lesson with no harm done. Please don't beat yourself up

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for your kind words.

In response to the posts, we will most definately not be getting another cat for as long as we have Dougie, or any dog for that matter, I could not face that happening again.

One of the most upsetting things is that I feel I should know better, I have a Diploma in Animal Care and have worked in kennels / catteries.

I also feel terrible about the fact that I can't even look at Dougie, he has been with me through so much, but he has hurt me in the cruelest way, even though to him he hasn't been naughty, when I went out into the garden he was just stood there with the kitten in his mouth wagging his tail looking so proud of himself with a look that said "Here we are mummy I have finally dealt with the little pest that has been annoying us for so long, aren't I a good boy?", that image is haunting me.

I feel like I imposed a death sentance on this precious little life the moment we brought him home :-(

Thanks again for your kindness it has been such a comfort.

Nicki xx

It's a tragic accident, pure and simple, dogs will chase cats and it is a natural instinct once they are excitedly acting on instinct to shake that catch if caught, you weren't to know what was happening.

In all the years I've had cats I've never found one which will not be chased by a resident dog if it runs or moves fast outdoors, no prob indoors but outside a different story, nor one that will just sit in a room whilst I hoover, they usually walk out and come back afterwards or jump up onto a windowsill until I have finished, hairdryers and other noises no probs but the hoover always seems to have mine giving me an indignant look followed by a quick exit. Infact my mother-in-law who had a terrier and a cat (both now deceased) her terrier used to get so excited when he saw the hoover coming out he would find the cat and stand infront of it as he knew the moment it was switched on the cat would run for it's life, it was a great game for the dog, but if he'd ever caught the cat (who he would lick and lie with on the sofa) I guess he would also shake and puncture it.

You weren't to know the kitten would suddenly find the hoover intolerable when it hadn't bothered him before and run off where the dogs were, you really couldn't have known that. It's just one of those tragic things, you may well have not been able to stop the kitten even if you saw what was happening. Try not to feel too guilty there is nothing you could do. (((hug)))

Ahh poor kitty run free little one xx,
you of course feel awful about what happened its understandable and natural,
it does seem that you tried your best to keep them apart sadly accidents happen so dont blame yourself,

i have 3 cats 3 dogs 2 are EBT'S but 2 of my older cats were here before any dogs we have so the cats in here rule in this house ,

i felt awfully guilty when i gave one of our 3 cats to a friend because we had mated our ebt and the cat used to suckle on her teats for comfort (he was 6 months old tho) and all tho i tried my best to stop him . id chase him round the room to get him to get away from her as she would lay their and lick him like a baby, this was of course not going to be very good when she was having her pups and started producing milk so i gave him to a friend, and within weeks he went missing from her house i was sick with worry at where he'd gone as she lives about a 10 minute walk from me i was worried he'd been run over i spent the first week or 2 walking the streets with my EBT looking for him calling him, i felt awful wishing i'd have kept him he would at least have been safe with me,

then a year later Mr Ziggy cat turned up on my doorstep :-D i cant tell you how much i cried when i see him and its back to normal in here now so my story had a bit of a better ending than yours,

dont beat yourself up about it this could have happened to anyone,

> I also feel terrible about the fact that I can't even look at Dougie, he has been with me through so much, but he has hurt me in the cruelest way, even though to him he hasn't been naughty, when I went out into the garden he was just stood there with the kitten in his mouth wagging his tail looking so proud of himself with a look that said "Here we are mummy I have finally dealt with the little pest that has been annoying us for so long, aren't I a good boy?", that image is haunting me.
>

As I said I haven't been in the same situation, but I have been in similar - where I couldn't look at the dog because of what he had done and how it had hurt me, although I knew that to him, he was just behaving as a dog. It's natural human emotion - it does hurt and it will be very raw at the moment, the pain does ease with time I promise.

> I feel I should know better

An accident is an accident - it makes no difference what you know. We are human - we can't manage to think of everything all the time - sometimes our minds are elsewhere, we have other worries.... this could have happened to anyone. The important thing is to go with what you now know - which you are doing - and not get another cat. I know it is hard, because you automatically blame yourself - but don't, do try to stop beating yourself up. There are people out there who wouldn't care - who don't care - who don't feed their pets, or lock them up in sheds... you are hurting because you care. Hugs.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

One of my dogs has killed 2 cats, both cats were feral and just happened to be on the property.  Like your Dougie there was no 'big attack', just grabbed roughly and I think a broken back.  Cats are so fragile. 

I also have 2 cats of my own which although are accepted by the dogs are never left unsupervised together even for a moment.

Your Dougie didn't mean to hurt you, he was just being true to his nature. He's still 'your boy'.

Run free little one
Mel

Thanks again everyone, all of these lovely posts have helped so much today.

I just can't stop seeing that poor kitten on the garden, only five minutes before so full of life and his whole life to look forward to.

I've had many pets over the years, all of which have died naturally when the time came, of illness and old age etc, thankfully I have never had to deal with this situation and I hope to god I never do again.

I can't stop thinking about the terror that poor kitten must have felt before he died.

I know some people might think I am overreacting but I feel like a person close to me has died, he was only four months so we'd only had him two but he had become such a big part of our lives, it was gutting to have to decide to rehome him, but I would have made that choice weeks ago had I have known that this would happen, I had so much to do today but I can't get any of it done, I can't be motivated to do anything, its awful.

xxx

So sorry for your loss, i have a terrier and 3 cats, one cat even sleeps with my terrier, and i have big dogs as well, you done all that you could and i would say please don't blame Dougie, he doesn't understand what he's done wrong, does he chase rabbits or rats? mine kills both at our stables so have to watch him closely with the kids pet rabbits.

We all learn from our mistakes, my sister has been where you are with her bullmastiff, lived with her cat for years one day killed it, no reason we could see, so no more cats in her house either

I can't stop thinking about the terror that poor kitten must have felt before he died

It would have been very, very quick. My GR catches squirrels and he despatches them so quickly there is not even time to think let alone stop him.

It is very distressing for you but a very natural action for a dog so don't be hard on yourself - it was an accident and no blame to attach to anyone.

Hi all,

In response to Justme's question, Dougie has never seen a rat or a rabbit before, we had a hedgehog on our yard a few months ago that he was terrified of! Last year we took him to my Gran's in Scotland for a holiday, and one day he went down the steps from her back door to the garden, and swiftly returned, scared to death, of a cat sat on the lawn, he had not been attacked.

It's so sad, that dog has been my rock in the past, and now its changed my opinion of him, even though I really don't want it too. We did a lot on dog behaviour at college so I know that he has just acted on natural instinct but I still feel so mad.

Nicki

xxx

Ditto Harley - I once saw my GSP catch a squirrel when he was young and fit - there was literally no time for any suffering, it took a split second.

And he is still your boy and your rock - once you get past and through all the emotions that go with something like this happening, you will feel it again and know it again.  I have known that feeling - and I know it does pass, because you can understand the why, it's working through the grief and anger and misery first that's the hard part. But you can get back to the feeling that he is still your Dougie, your best boy, in time.

I agree it would of been very fast, i think you think the worst which is natural, my terrier dispatches rats in less than 5 seconds now and we are talking of ones that look like they are on steroids.

So sorry to hear this Nicki, but as others have said, it was an accident and you did everything you could to try to prevent a problem. I got two cats last summer, both around a year old and I am only just now at the point of allowing the dogs and cats to roam the house together whilst we are there. They are still completely separate when we are out as my setter is still slightly scared of them and if she starts barking in a panic, our bernese would be right in there protecting her, whether she needed it or not. Most dogs will pounce when a cat or other small creature runs, especially if they are outside, its their nature. Our bernese dispatched a rabbit that had been cornered in the recycling area and I would never have believed that she would ever have done such a thing. Please don't blame yourself, it could happen to any of us.

Marion x

Morning everyone,

Hope everyone is well?

I made my peace with Dougie last night, I am still very cross with him but I honestly think he knew and was acting very fishy and I couldn't stand to see him looking like that.

Still feel rotten but feel a little better today than yesterday, I cannot tell everyone how comforting their words have been so thank you so much everyone.

Nicki xx

Hi Nicky,First of all,I want to say how sorry I am about what happened to little kitty.You must feel awful about it,but the guilt you feel will get less and you'll remember that you tried to do everything you were supposed to ,so that your animals would be happy with each other.It didn't work out so again you were about to do the right thing and rehome him to somewhere right for him.Circumstances conspired against you on the day Dougie got hold of Kitty,but that's not your fault,you were just hoovering.It's not Dougie's fault,he was being a dog or the kitten's fault,she was being a kitten,it's just a very sad thing to happen.Forgive yourself

I am afraid i don't do group hugs etc but at the risk of being shot down in flames, as an outsider it seems rather naive and dare i say almost a little self orientated to have brought a defenceless kitten into a household with dogs that were not raised with cats & were bred to have a high prey drive just to satisfy a personal desire to own a cute fluffy little kitten.

Being raised from puppyhood to live with cats/kittens is one thing, but I must confess I am struggling to understand the logic behind bringing a small prey animal into the established territory of a dog that was not only not socialised with cats but furthermore was specifically bred to hunt and kill small prey animals. Maybe i am missing something here?

Dogs know when there is an animal brought into thier territory that according to thier most basic instincts should not be there. In an ideal world i think most of us would have both dogs and cats but this does seem to have been a decision made against better judgement (and a diploma). It would be unfair on the dogs to have expected them to be able to accept such an invasion of thier territory that would have confused the living daylights out of them & been seen by them as a threat to their status in the household.

> It would be unfair on the dogs to have expected them to be able to accept such an invasion of thier territory that would have confused the living daylights out of them & been seen by them as a threat to their status in the household.

I do not agree that a dog would feel it's status was threatened by a kitten being brought into the home, unless it had some serious issues allready. (a dog killing a cat through instinctive prey-drive, is not a behavioural issue, it's simply instinct)
My last dog would chase cats he saw in the garden with a view to catching them, yet he got on perfectly with the kitten I brought into the home and they would happily play together and curl up to sleep together.

Since being a little girl we have always had cats & dogs together, with never any problems. I have a dog & cat now.

The OP knew there was a potential for problems, due to the breed she had and took all the precations she could - even lining up a new home for the kitten when it was onbviously not going to work out. It is just a tragic accident that the kitten escaped the confines of upstairs and ended up where the dog was. Accidents happen to the best of us.

I am afraid i don't do group hugs etc but at the risk of being shot down in flames, as an outsider it seems rather naive and dare i say almost a little self orientated to have brought a defenceless kitten into a household with dogs that were not raised with cats & were bred to have a high prey drive just to satisfy a personal desire to own a cute fluffy little kitten.

Being raised from puppyhood to live with cats/kittens is one thing, but I must confess I am struggling to understand the logic behind bringing a small prey animal into the established territory of a dog that was not only not socialised with cats but furthermore was specifically bred to hunt and kill small prey animals. Maybe i am missing something here?

Dogs know when there is an animal brought into thier territory that according to thier most basic instincts should not be there. In an ideal world i think most of us would have both dogs and cats but this does seem to have been a decision made against better judgement (and a diploma). It would be unfair on the dogs to have expected them to be able to accept such an invasion of thier territory that would have confused the living daylights out of them & been seen by them as a threat to their status in the household.

Thousands upon thousands of cats live in perfect harmony with many terriers so perhaps the naivety is on your interpretation of this incident :-) The OP did everything the right way and this was purely an accident no more and no less.

We had a terrier X when I was young & when my young cat died suddenly, the bond between them was so close that the dog took to his basket & refused to come out. He didn't eat or drink & nothing the vets did could change him. He was in fact pining for his feline buddy & was PTS when his life was ebbing away from starvation. Afterwards the vets could find nothing wrong with him & as he was a fairly young dog-it wasn't simply old age.

My Collies are very high prey drive, but because my cats paid no heed to them & do not run & quickly get up into a vantage point, the dogs leave them alone, unless the cats instigate play !

> Being raised from puppyhood to live with cats/kittens is one thing, but I must confess I am struggling to understand the logic behind bringing a small prey animal into the established territory of a dog that was not only not socialised with cats but furthermore was specifically bred to hunt and kill small prey animals. Maybe i am missing something here?

I couldn't disagree more. I've had many rescue dogs (and fostered even more) that were unused to cats, plus adult rescue cats unused to being around dogs. Of course I was extra careful but given time they learned to tollerate and even like each other, sleep and eat together.

IMO cats are not small prey animals, they are predators and almost all cats are ruthless killers. Dogs are completely different, some have instincts which can be controlled (I've had quite a few terrier types that have been less of a problem with cats and small animals than more supposedly animal-friendly breeds), some have almost no predatory instincts at all.

The OP has done what thousands of other dog owners do, introduced a cat as carefully as possible. Unfortunately accidents happen sometimes.

> It would be unfair on the dogs to have expected them to be able to accept such an invasion of thier territory that would have confused the living daylights out of them & been seen by them as a threat to their status in the household.

Are you serious? Do you have only one dog?

My dogs happily accept new animals and people into my house, I'm not sure how I'd go about making them confused and threatened. That must be some talent you have.

Hi guys,

First of all Suep, thank you for your opinion, at the end of the day I knew that I was opening myself up to this kind of criticism when I posted my thread, I am not going to try and explain to you my reasons for doing what I did in getting a cat as I do not feel that I should have to, but I can assure you that I am not one of these people that watches Animal Hospital and then decides that I want to go out and get myself a "cute fluffy little kitten" that I can sit and stroke all day, I am fully aware that animals are hard work.  Obviously I did make the wrong decision in getting the kitten but I can assure you that it was not a decision made lightly and without consideration of the possible outcomes. Yes one of my dogs is a terrier, but on seeing cats previously he had never displayed aggression, and I doubt very much his behaviour had anything to do with the cat encroaching on his territory as our other dog came to us last year as a puppy and the terrier took to him and has never been territorial, they even eat together (supervised of course, before you criticise me on that too). But like I say, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and thanks for giving me yours, I shall take on board what you have said.

To everyone else - thank you for your words of defence, it is nice to know that other people understand that yes I did make a mistake, but unfortunately thats what people do sometimes, and no one feels worse about this whole thing than me.

Nicki xxx

Sorry for your loss, you must be feeling very sad.
when I got my kitten, my dog was often to ruff with her. It was manly in play and they did love to play together, the kitten often starting games that got ruff. If I had not been so on my guard my dog could have easily killed the kitten in play. Dogs don't know how delicate a small kitten is and there in lays the problem. It could well be that your dog was just playing and got to ruff.. As you were not there to see what happened, then I would not be to hard on yourself or the dog. As it may be  the case that your dog had no intention to kill the kitten but did so by accident .

We all make mistakes, sometimes we are unlucky, sometimes we get away with it. I know how you feel about looking at Dougie differently, a few years back my 2 boys had several nasty fights, and although they seem to have got over it and are spending more and more (supervised!) times together, you can't quite look at your fluffy cuddly dog in quite the same way when you've seen him attacking your other fluffy cuddy dog and drawing blood. :-( It doesn't mean you won't love him just as much and you will get over the horrible shock, but you will have a little more appreciate that they are still predators - I know I do!

> I am afraid i don't do group hugs etc

Neither do I, what I said was my personal balanced opinion. :-) Plenty people keep dogs and cats together without any problems - and introduce kittens to dogs and the dogs get used to them and accept them. I know people who have cats living happily with gundogs, working group dogs, and terriers. The OP had considered matters and made arrangements to keep them separate, and made the decision to rehome when she had realised that things weren't going to work out. And I hardly think she is likely to make the same mistake twice.

> bringing a small prey animal

Cats are not prey animals, they are predators! They are obligate carnivores.

Yes one of my dogs is a terrier, but on seeing cats previously he had never displayed aggression

And in this case it was also not aggression. It is all to do with the chase, I am in total agreement with others that a cat is not prey, it is a smaller but actually more dangerous preditor and many will happily see off a dog, dogs are attracted to something moving fast and running, it is in their instinct to chase, that is all that happened here, if the kitten had been sat on the sofa no doubt the terrier would have gone over sniffed and licked it as many of our dogs do with newly introduced kittens and I think it is fair to say that a good 50% of us have both dogs and cats all introduced at different times.

The kitten was spooked and probably scared, ran and the game was on, a very sad but perfectly understandable accident.

Precious _stone,
I just wanted to say how sorry i was reading this thread to hear about this tragic loss.I understand how you feel right now as  when I lived at home we had cats and dogs who lived together for many years with no bother at all. That was  until one day when our oldest cat for some reason wandered to close to our dog who was asleep under the unit (where it slept) in our kitchen. They had always got along fine but for some reason this day without warning and as quick as a flash our dog woke up and did the same to our cat for no apparent reason we could see .To this day we had no clue why it happened  as both dog and cat had lived together since the dog was a puppy, approx 10 or so yrs. I had to stick my feet in to get to the cat and free her but sadly by the time I had gotten her free, her injuries were too bad and she had to be pts by our vet. I felt terrible like it was somehow my fault and wondered for ages if i couldve done something different. I still look back sometimes  and see our cat covered in blood etc and so i know  Its not nice for that to be your last memory of your cat.I too couldnt look at our dog the same for ages as I was filled with horror and revulsion at  what she had done,needless to say she never did anything else like that ever again,she was just the dog we knew almost straight way.
Sending (((Big hugs))) to you it really wasnt your fault and I just wanted you to know im thinking about you xxxxx

Hello Nicki, what a shock for you and it is not your fault. I recognise the obsessive behaviour pattern--it's as though they are biding their time for the right moment. I keep hens and quail, and my older dog is now completely transfixed by them--he's become worse with working on retrieves and flushing birds. He's been in the pen many times as a pup and has not bothered them, but as he's matured he has become potentially dangerous. Last week two of my hens made a run for the gate before I could pen them in and he was straight on them. He is a working dog and is only following his retrieving instincts, but the hens wouldn't have appreciated that. The sight of him with a bird the size of a Light Sussex in his mouth would have been comical, but as it was I dived in to grab each of the birds and slung them without ceremony over the fence. They made their annoyance pretty plain but at least they survived the experience. I've learned my lesson and he can only come out to the pen on a lead now.

Controlling a high prey drive is not something I'd feel capable of--all I can do is keep both parties well away from each other.

Im not normally one for hugs, but hugs for you, and Dougie too.

You made what you now recognise was a mistake and you sought to rectify that by rehoming the kitten, but a tragedy occurred before that could happen.

Anyone here who can hold up their hand and say they HAVENT made a mistake is a liar, plain and simple, and its just one of those things that some of the mistakes we make we get away with.... and some we dont.

Ive made many a mistake, and they have taught me a lot - anyone on here recall the awful error I made in having two out of three dogs off lead down a footpath that ran along side some houses?.. Abby and Rocky both shot over a wall into a communal driveway after an argumentative Persian cat, over another wall into a lane, up a bank and then over a third wall into a private driveway... Abby then lept out of there and Rocky being a lot shorter was stuck. I went to retrieve him and Abby came flying back over the middle wall.... just as the owner of the house opened his door and yelled, she jumped sideways and skidded across the bonnet of his parked 4x4, putting a lot of deep scratches into it.. he was (rightly) very angry and also (wrongly) very abusive, the dogs were fine and the cat got away scot free, the only casualty being his bonnet (which i sorted out!).

Now hindsight is a wonderful thing - I know NOW that a very stroppy persian cat lives thattaway (really stroppy, it was about 9ft off the ground adn in NO danger until it got down from its fence top and hissed at the dogs), I shalt not (and hath not!!!!!) walked my dogs past there in the 4 years or more since that happened.

But nothing, really, seriously, could have told me that that was a likely chain of events. We all know dogs can chase running cats, we all know that sometimes a recall isnt enough... but like your hoover/kitty running/dog barking means dog got kitty scenario... you just cant put together EVERY possible chain of events in your head before hand.

I recently had to call off two of my dogs from a stray cat in my garden - again luck was on mine/the cats side... fortunately i was in the garden, im not always.. fortunately they heeded and let go after I bellowed at them a lot... but for a few seconds there, they were playing tug of war and kitty was in the middle! Could easily have ended very very differently!

Dont beat yourself up any more, you are only human and we all make mistakes, and give Dougie a hug, because he really has no idea why you are upset now.

The important thing now is forgiving Dougie and yourself.
It was a dog being a dog - and you just being human.

We sometimes get a shock to be reminded that our little fur 'kids' are wild animals with a thin veneer of domestication. We marvel at their instincts and put many of them to good use but it's a timely reminder when we see just what they are still capable of.

I have sympathy for you witnessing the attack on your kitten by your dog - not nice for anyone to witness but I feel you made some key mistakes in integrating the kitten to your home. I can see why you thought that would mean the cat was safe by placing him/her upstairs. You said that Dougie became fixated on the kitty that is very normal behaviour with a terrier with something perceived as a prey item...sadly the only mistake you made was to then put the kitten in his own room, not the dog. My English bull terrier was 6 months old when I got a kitten and my older cat had beaten him up from 6 weeks old, so he had an unhealthy fascination & a bad distrust of cats. I allowed my dog to have a good sniff but for a long time I would be careful of the way the dog interacted and the sniffing would be on my terms not the dogs. If he became over the top he would be the one to go out of the room. By putting the cat away you made Dougie feel he was the master of down stairs. sadly cats will do as they please and obviously a cat can run anywhere with no control from us...I make every dog feel that the cat has more rights then they have, only because of their size and strength can hurt a cat by lying on them- I have caught my snoop climbing on top the cat on the settee which I tell him to get off not the cat. Many times my heart was in my throat when snoop would nibble the fur of the kitten and nearly start to hump the poor thing but I would just drag him away. It is a very stressful thing to get a young dog to get used to a cat if they have never been around them and your Dougie being 3 even harder. My friends boxer was a nightmare when staying with chasing my cats and being right up to their faces in the end rather than telling him to go away as he would ignore me, I would stand in front of him and block him from the cat, he now is really good and no hint of weird fixation at all, he even had next door neighbours cat walking around his legs! So sorry about your kitty.

Hi there everyone,

Hope everyone is well and having a nice weekend?

Thanks for all the new posts everyone, I apologise for the delay in replying, I have been away for a few days with no access to the internet.

Magica, thanks for your advice, maybe you have a point, I don't think we will be having another kitten though, certainly not for as long as Dougie is alive.

Myself and my partner were given to much different advice, by Veterinary Nurses and Behaviouralists alike, all meaning well of course and very knowledgeable in their field, that I think in the end we was not sure what to do for the best, although we did always make sure that if the dogs were out, cat was in, and vice versa, obviously until cat got spooked / brave and went through the baby gate :-(

Ruby our Setter has her second show tomorrow, but I am concerned that we have not done enough prep for this one, being so preoccupied, but fingers crossed!

Take care everyone.

Nicki xx