Hi
A really nosey one this.
I was talking to a friend the other day and we were chatting about the amounts we had paid for our respective dogs and discussing puppy prices in general as she is thinking about getting another Sibe pup, and it got me wondering, what is considered a *fair* price in all the different breeds our posters are in, and what would be the most expensive breed?
Irish Wolfhounds vary from £700 to £900 at the mo.
Nosey Nicky :D

I paid £400 for Kassie (GSD):) They tend to range from £350 to £450- so the price I paid for Kassie is quite fair:)

Stacey x x x

Newf prices range quite alot, top breeders expect in the range of 800-1200 but there are the pet ones about 600-800.

Sam

Malamutes seem to be about 800-900 but I have heard of some being sold for 1,000 ;)

Melody

I am no expert on this but it seems so go form one extreme to the other and I have seen a huge difference even from Scotland to England.

In my breed Westies. You can get a pet puppy from £300 -£400 some have been asking more but I think greed is taking over.

Some that are bred for show baring in mine still no guarentee go form £375 - £600 but for any breed at the extreme higher end of the price bracket a guarantee can and should be asked.

When I say Guarantee I don't mean that they will become champs but they should at least have correct bites, and general conformation to the standard.

Mind you most good breeders would not question a repacement dog if there were conformation problems or they shouldn't.

One of my freinds just recently took a puppy at 7 months back that she sold as a pet because it's bite was out. She didn't have to but her reputation was worth more to her and she is one of the least greedy people I know. If fact I have seen her giving a puppy away that is not what she measures as close enough to the standard.

I have learnt a lot over the last couple of years.. buying dogs is a crazy game.

Pam

Vast disparity in deerhounds with no particular relation to the part of the country. Most would be towards the £600 mark but you can pay from £350 - £650 for a well reared pup off good stock. Unfortunately I've heard of £650 much being charged for a puppy that has a major fault against the standard that imo ought to be sold at a token price. You will also find pups at the £350 end of the scale sold at 12 weeks fully vaccinated and PSS tested and ones at the £650 end of the spectrum that have no vaccinations or test. I don't like the price escalation at all because it is too likely to edge the breed towards commercialism

My two working Springers were both £200. One KC reg, one not.
A part trained one can be purchased for approx. £600, and a fully trained approx. £1000.

Mad, eh?

Luv Laura and the boys

A girl at our training class can't believe the price of pups here. She's from Belfast where she bought her field spaniel for £60 and she's seen them ask for £250-£300 here. Writing this makes me realise why unscrupulous folk are buying pups from N.I. to sell on the mainland if all pups are as cheap in N.I.
Dot

Dot. trust me their not cheap at all in belfast .she was just lucky
springer spanials are quiet cheap but not show type
there may be a gem on a litter but not usually . bullmastiffs are £700 , . Terriers are around £400 , POMS £500 no different here in the south either.
Mari

Dot, £60 would hardly cover the paper work, it is hard to believe anyone would or could produce puppies for this sort of price, unless of course they are prepared to subsidize. Jackie

Border Collies Range from £200 -£400 with Kc reg alot less without:( Gillian

bull terrier are about £500 to £700 with KC

Staffords go from about £300 KC regged to roughly £500/£600 KC regged sired by the latest in fashion

I have also seen them advertised at £250 with *NO* papers.........

Z

Danes £500 plus can pay over £2500 for a show marked harli from top breeders. Japanese Chins £400-£600 again ther are some exceptions. Bullmastiffs £500 to £800. I have seen danes and Bullmastiffs in the local free paper KC reg from pet breeders £300 - £400.

Anna

Hi, In the West Midlands labrador prices vary depending on the colours, I have seen black & yellow being sold from £200 - £350 but chocolate are from £350 upwards. Everybody seems to want chocolate labs at the moment.

Just a question for all the breeders , are the stud fees the same as the price of a puppy?

In my breed yes. Both are currently about £450/£500.

Hi, in American Cockers prices vary enormously depending on sex/colour. For pets a Buff Bitch would be approx £500, a black dog £350 - £400. Particolour pets somewhere in the middle of this - Buffs are the most requested by pet buyers. Show pup prices from about £500 upwards, depending n how long we have to keep them. However, quite a lot of people appear to be asking £600 for pets. Stud Fees are not as much as a puppy for the most part. Average for a decent dog is about £300 - £350, 'Superstars' a bit more, but hard to say as very few superatars available - before we retired him from 'open'stud Dexters (Top Dog all Breeds '97) was £500. Ambrose has always only been available to selected bitches, with various conditions attatched, so fees have been by arrangement.

Just been to collect my pug puppy - the 'going rate' for Pugs appears to be from £800 to £1000. Dont know about stud fees - will ask Mike what Rowdies fee is.
Gwen

I know some of you may not agree with my comment but I do think SOME people are getting greedy now with puppies.

Some of the prices are just getting too high. Fair enough for a dog that has been ran on for show etc where there is additional costs etc but whether breeders have top stock or not there is no guarantee with an 8 week old puppy.

Yes some breeders have to do some more tests and maybe show alot but some of the prices are getting crazy and it is no wonder really we are seeing the puppy farmers and back door breeders.

Lets face it who amoungst the everyday person has a spare £1000 lying around , yes people can save etc but if you have a house and kids etc it is hard. Off they go to a puppy farmer and buy something that doesn't even look like its breed for £250... mad yes.

It is a common thing now that breeders ( SOME I STRESS) are breeding litters from not so desirable lines then selling them all and from the proceeds buy a better puppy from another breeder with a better kennel Name.

Pam

I was going to say that Pam:) I'm going to show Kassie (two of the four bitches are proving to be show quality, the breeder kept the other one) but I never paid anymore than the other two people since there are no guarantees with an 8 week old puppy like you say. What would happen to those who didn't turn out to be 'show quality' puppies but yet have been sold for the extra price? Would the difference be refunded?

Stacey x x x

Hi Stacey . this brings a good question as we do have a few good kennel owners on the site. maybe the would oblige.

What do you do when you sell a puppy for show or can you?

Whta happens if the dog turns out less than expected.. which is fine if the price was not too much more than that of a pet but what

happens if the purchaser pays a bit more and for example the dogs bite is out.

Just that I know of 2 poeple recently that paid over the odds for a puppy and they puppies have not turned out so good.

It is very questionable if someone sells a puppy for say £250 over the average price of a reasonable well bred puppy of that breed.

it could be presumed that this is a possible guarantee and I think the court without disclaiming paperwork could view it like this.

Just wondered as a possible future breeder would like to know of others experiences or stories.

Pam

hi pam,
i have come to the conclusion that buying a puppy with regards to showing has to be put surly in the top ten stressfull things next to death , birth, marrige, devorce etc, i think any breeder can only say maybe promosing, no one should sell and guarentee you will have a sucsessfull show dog, the ugly duckling can be the swan and the swan could turn out crap scuse the pun,if you have a eye for a good dog then all the better, but if not then you are up s *** creek with out a paddle.it is all trial and error when buying dogs. i read somewere when is the time when you can tell if a puppy has got what it takes and read 11months and 29 days!!!!!. i personaly would not take a guarentee from any breeder regardless of who they were when buying a pup.it's your choice at the end of the day.

After purchasing 2 pups in the last 10 months for showing I can 100% guarantee the stress that went with it..

I heard today form a lady that breeds ...that she sold a puppy at a fair price as a pet but well bred pet 8 months ago the purchaser intentions were different I think and she was wanting it to breed from or so the breeder thought . Anyway the puppy has not turned out to be what the purchaser expected so she appeared at the breeders door last week saying she wanted to return the pup 8 months old and she wanted a full refund.

The breeder took the pup and offered her what she had in her purse at the time which I think was £200 the pup was only £300 the woman took the money and said she wanted the rest. the breeder said she would take the dog straight to the vet and get it checked over then would call the purchaser back which sounded good to me that she was prepared to refund anymore well the purchaser punched her in the face. The breeder shut the door quickly. She got the dog check over the next day and apart form being covered in fleas and having a mange scraping taken for testing the vet said the dog was 100% fine and in his opinion a good specimen of the breed.

What a carry on. I since heard today that the purchaser or punch thrower actually breeds a few other breeds and it not know as a super nice person.

Pam

I didn't know what to say. the breeder didn't get the police.

Ohh Pam:( I think I'd have got the police! What an awful thing for her to do- punching her like that:o I hope she's not giving her the rest of the money now! I think she ought to tell her to get knotted since she's lucky she isn't been charged by the police for assaulting her! And considering the lack of care (fleas, mange scrape needed, probably want worming etc) I think it ought to be quits now. Personally if I'd have had a pet for that length of time, no matter what it turned out to be I wouldn't be able to part with it anyway. You can say she's not a super nice person again- attacking the breeder and giving up an amimal that has supposedly been part of there family for such a length of time- IMO the poor dog's had a lucky escape!

Stacey x x x

hi
pam, is that the norm to refund if a pup is returned to you,if there is no written contract about returning,or is this just good will on the breeders part,how very sad for this to happen, i have had dogs around me all my life and have never considered breeding until now, but finding the whole thing very daunting,is your bitch/dog going to improve the breed if mated etc, then finding suitable homes for your babes,that i will find hard, and probably frighten all interested buyers away.regards tina. ,

Aofie and Stacey,

I think that breeder was more than generous at taking the dog back and getting a punch also. I felt so sorry for her when she was telling me. I only heard today that the purchaser is a breeder of another breed.

She did sell the pup as pet only so she didn't deseve that.

Pam

Agree Tina. Obvious faults like wool in deerhounds apart, it is very difficult to say how the big breeds will turn out. In any case I'd like to think that people are buying a healthy pup with an excellent temperament, a good genetic backgound and promise of typical conformation long before a potential show stopper. Maybe I'm naive but to me anyone who puts wins before the dog ought to consider showing something inanimate.

When we sell a potential show puppy a lot depends on the buyers expectatons - if someone wants a first dog to start out, have some fun with and learn handling and presentation skills, we will point them in the direction of a good but no Ch potential pup - one with all the breed attribute possible for the age, but probably not that little bit extra. Peopl with the ability and dedication to make up a dog, we try our hardest to sell the best pups we have available - ones we hope have the potential to win CCs. If any probable show pup we sell has a major problem, such as the mouth going, we usually arrange to replace with another puppy, or if (as often happens) they are in love with the first pup, then to let them have another pup but at pet price.
Not having a chrystal ball, we cant ever guarantee the outcome for any pup, and rearing and handling make a big difference, we just do our best to make sure that people buying one of ours to show end up with a worthwhile dog for the ring.
Gwen

Gwen that's because you have the knowledge and experience of your own lines!! Sure nobody can guarantee an 8 week will grow suitable for the ring but with experience you can make a calculated guess. Picking a puppy is a completely different skill to judging adults and those without experience should be guided by their breeder. If they've found a breeder that they trust, and who would buy from a breeder that they didn't, then they should get a puppy suitable.

I remember sending a lady for her first show bitch to very successful kennel with a nice litter. She was shown two puppies, who the breeder considered suitable, from which to chose. Unfortunately, she taken an "expert" friend with her, who said that the breeder was trying to keep the best back and to take one of the others in the litter. She listen to her friend and ended up with an average pup. The other two both did very well in the ring, one with the breeder and the other with a novice exhibitor.

Gwen, I can honestly tell from other posts and this one that you seemed to have a very good balance if you don't mind me saying you protect your name but seem to welcome others into the breed also which I htink is excellent.

Pam

Thaks Pam, we really try to get it right!
Gwen

I think what your breeder did was the correct and fair way as there are no guarantees. I fit turns out a cracker then that would better the breeders reputation.

Pam

Hi Pam, It is a minefield buying a puppy for show. Some breeders will sell you their best available potential puppy -but when you think about it - why should they? If a purchaser wants to show then they should be helped an encouraged but within limits to begin with IMO. Until an "apprenticeship" has been served within the breed, highly succesful breeders want to see that you do things properly, do your best with presentation (so important in coated breeds) and are a credit to the breed,that you keep your mouth shut and your eyes and ears open!! ( see no evil, speak no evil, but hear all!!) and conduct yourself in a suitable manner with colleagues and in public at shows and that your intentions for your dogs are good. If they sell a puppy of the very highest calibre (ie one that they would be able make up to CH) to a novice, however well intentioned, its not necessarily going to be the home that gives the dog the best chance of success. I have found that the top breeders will help you - to a limit - but really one has to learn about the breed until the purchaser can pick their own potential puppy,to have learned enough about the breed to have a good idea about development and potential THEMSELVES, then they deserve the best availble puppy in the litter and the breeder will know they will make the most of it and respect them for their choice. Its much better to work yourself up the tree of success slowly, as when you attain it, you need the experience you have gained along the way to sustain it. So much of the needed experience cant be learned from a book but by learning from the right people and being very observant. Even from top quality stock it is very hard to consistantly breed litters full of winners, one good winner yes, but IMO a litter full is a lifetimes work and the few breeders of this calibre are entitled to sell them where and for how much they wish. What do others think?

As has been said no-one can really predict which pups will fly! If they could then each puppy the breeder keeps for themselces would be a champion. some breeders almost manage this after many years dedication.

All puppies I have ever sold have been Companions first and foremost, and sold as such! I would always like for the most promising pups to go to a home that might like to have a crack at showing if they both enjoy it, as otherwise ypou don't get to seee how your work turned out so to speak.

Maybe in a numerically small breed like ours where most litters are bred by, or overseen by experienced people in the breed, there are less extremes of quality. By this I mean litters bred for generations by people who have no knowledge of the breed standard requirements. Yorkies in strange colours, and the size of Cairns, and CKCS the size of American and Welsh springers come to mind. don't even start me on the weird ad wonderful assortment ofcanines that pass for GSD.

Many total newcomers in my breed have shown their pet, gotten advise and skill, and gone on to the top! When they come and visit or send in good photos you know that some of the best stock are in pet homes!

Hi Westie Lover
You are so right.
When I booked my last bitch puppy from her breeder there were only 2 bitches in the resulting litter. Talking weekly by phone to the breeder I was aware by 5-7 weeks that 1 was the business and the other was pet only. I honestly thought I would be offered the pet bitch as I knew that the breeder had hoped to keep a bitch herself.
When the big day arrived and we went off to collect our puppy we were shown ALL the pup's and then had the 2 bitches separately. Because she knew I wanted a foundation bitch of show quality the breeder was in effect giving me the chance to demonstrate how much I knew about the breed and what I should be looking for (at about 8 weeks IW's are roughly in *proportion*). It was a 50/50 chance for the breeder, I looked at both and I knew which one I wanted so she said "Well, which is it to be?" and I picked up the pup I wanted and she said "That's the one I would have kept" However, even though I had bought a promising pup, at this early stage, it would be down to me to make certain she fulfilled her potential with careful rearing.
The price was the price though, regardless which pup I chose, and I think that that is fair as they had both been reared with the same love & attention and at the same cost to the breeder.
I thought it incredibly generous that she forwent her choice for me, we have kept in touch and become close friends and she often handles my bitch for me. :D
Nicky

Hi Nicky , that was good of your breeder. I like to hear positve stories liek that. Your breeder obvoiusly has an ecouraging view of you after all you will hopefully replace her one day in the show ring.

One of the nicest people I have met in the Westie group so far is a very famous breeder, she is nice polite and encouraging and most of all I have never heard her say a bad word about anyone or anyones dogs. I enjoy watching her watching dogs if that makes sense.

She is the type that would pick you up when your knocked down and tell you to brush down and get on the horse again.

With regards WL comments I agree to a degree but confused why you directed it at me. I studied my breed for 2 years before getting one, I studied lines, health , diets,etc. I went to more than several shows both open and champs shows and talked to people etc.

I put my hand up to being a novice and a more than glad to do my time. I am very active now showing as much as possible and won't ever expect either of my dogs at this time to be champs. I am more delighted at 1st in open shows.

Infact I am still sometimes suprised how little westies are shown considering the amount that is bred. Don't get me wrong I don't think all dogs should be shown neither but how does one know what standard they are breeding.

If a breeder demonstrates their commitment to their breed by showing and producing good quality puppies then I agree they deserve good prices but I don't agree with people breeding dogs that they have no measurement of and asking the same prices as better quality pups. Yes of course puppies are expensive to breed etc but a breeder who shows their dogs actively, regularly would be intitled to charge more.

The breeder who I got my second dog from shows nearly every week all around the UK I say that is commitment to the breed. I know it costs her a fortune just like a lot of people on the site.

I am happy to show my commitment to the breed which in a very quick year I think I am and have.

Pam

PS I am also happy with the breeder of my first dog also. She does however not show quite as much as the breeder of my second dog and her price reflects this I think but she is a good breeder and also was very encouraging to me and although still has not seen my bitch in the ring she is looking forward to.

Hi Pam
Yes, I would like to think that my bitch's breeder can see some sort of potential in me! ;)
It has been a bit of a shock actually as she is one of the top breeders in our breed, been around since the late 70's, well respected, bred lots of excellent dogs (in fact one of hers still has the CC breed record), I feel incredibly privileged to have been taken on as I have. I learn so much from her it is unreal.
She is v.supportive regarding my breeding with my bitch, as although I've been *in* the breed for a long while I've never been in a position to breed before. She said that she wouldn't tell me which dog to use but would give advice if I asked for it. I shortlisted 4 possibles then chose 1 and she is very pleased (in fact she is going to use another of the shortlisted 4 on her bitch, my bitch's cousin) and she wants a dog pup from the litter!
I have nothing but praise for her. :D
Nicky

We seem to have drifted from what we were originally talking about LOL as if that is not new.

I thought some of the Show/breeders would have an opinion of how puppies are sold or is it different form breeder to breeder.

Pam

Bit long this.....sorry. We sell our Wolfie pups all at the same price unless they have a glaring fault. They have all been reared with the same amount of love and care, and I never make claims that "this one is a show quality pup" If someone wants a pup to show, I try to pick them the best puppy AT THAT TIME. The giant breeds alter so much and so much can go wrong ifthe new owners do not rear them correctly, and here is a case that actually happened. A "friend" (HA HA ) asked if she could buy a pup for her middle daughter to have a dabble in the show ring with, I believe she was 14 at the time, and a really nice, doggy orientated young lady. The friend already had boxers that she showed. They did not have an awful lot of spare cash, so as she was a friend I sold her the second pick of litter for half price. She was given all the usual instructions about being careful with exercise, stairs etc, and off she went with Barney. About five weeks later, she phoned me and said that I had sold her a pup that wasnt show potential, that she wanted her money back, and would return the pup that night, as her husband didnt want to keep any "hangers on" When I got Barney back his hocks were touching when he walked and on speaking to her daughter, he had been exercising in the park and on the beach with her boxers!! The following day, after a visit to the vets, he was on restricted exercise and a change of diet, and massage to the stretched muscles and ligaments. He was then 14 weeks old. At 71/2 months old, he went to his first show, got BOB out of an entry of 21 wolfhounds and was awarded BPIS. The following weekend BPIS again and the weekend after that. Bolt out of the blue, I got a letter from a solicitor to say I had taken the puppy back under false pretences, and that I had known he was a show quality pup, and that she wanted the pup returned straight away. I ignored the letter, but they kept coming. She had obviously seen the critiques in the dog papers and decided she wanted him back again. Barney then won PD at our breed club show and three or four more classes at champ shows. Another letter arrived from the friend this time, saying she was going to report me to the IW club etc, for being a bad breeder, and she wrote to both the breed note writers in the dog papers. A day had been set for a court hearing about ownership of this puppy (I had returned the purchase price by the way) but a week before the due date, I had yet another letter from her solicitor to say she was dropping the case as she could no longer afford to carry on with it. All this from someone I thought was a friend. About a year later, I was ata a show, and someone tapped me on the shoulder and said "hello" To my surprise it was her, and rather than cause a scene, I just turned and walked away. Sadly, Barney died at 18 months of age from gastric torsion.

Hi Pam
I can see what you are getting at here about sensible prices V greed I think. :)
If genuine breeders stick to a reasonable price for pups then it would make puppy farm pups less attractive pricewise.
Bit like if our government stopped hitting ciggies and booze with ultra high taxes it would make black market fags & wine less of a bargain and limit the smuggling and therefore put more money back into the economy!
Nicky :D

In my breed at least, the only commercial puppy supermarket that was selling our breed at one time were charging more than reputable breeders who all charge about the same to within £50. I think at the moment they charge the same, and some novice owners breeding their first litters have charged over the oidds, with the excuse that they have higher initial costs!

Brainless that sounds like a excuse that could only come from a human. ( the extra cost bit) LOL

Pam

Agree to an extent Nicky, but I also think that genuine breeders don't make themselves accessible enough and maybe add too many strings when they sell. I would not buy a puppy with a spay/neuter agreement for instance, not because I intended to breed from it (I might but it would depend on how it turned out and my circumstances at the time) but mainly because I don't like neutering unless for medical reasons or very pressing personal ones. I know that spay/neuter contracts are not the norm here, but they are in the US and we tend to follow the US about a decade later. Nor do I particularly like home checks. If someone who has met me and had references doesn't believe me, then I don't really want any involvement with them. Now some people have rules so strict that its hard to see how anyone gets a pup - everything from no kids under X years to no smokers need apply! Can't the breeders meet the families and make their own assessments? Some small kids shouldn't be let near a stuffed hamster but others are fine. I feel even more strongly about this when it comes to rescue dogs.

Reputable cat breeders seem to have few qualms about advertising kittens widely and leving it to the potential purchaser to sort out who is good and who isn't. Maybe if dog breeders followed their lead the people who go to puppy farms now might actually be able to find them!

I agree Sharon.....I sell my Peke pups for £400 each, the only one I have put a restriction on is my baby girl - she is a mini and it is to dangerous to breed with her so have restricted breeding and added a part to the contract specifying that she is to be spay at 6 months.

I have however had some comments from buyers in London comment on how cheap the pups are as they charge £800 - £1200 in London area for pet pups - some want to know if there is anything wrong with the pups......no there isn't, I just don't believe in making a huge profit. I always have my pups checked by my vet before selling them to give me and the buyer peace of mind.

Donna

Hi Donna, I endorse all pups and do have a sales contract but most of that covers the breeders responsibilities. The main point I want to get across to the buyer is that if anything goes wrong, no matter what and no matter when, and they can't keep the pup I want them to come to me first and I'll always take the pup/dog back regardless of age. I also ask people to keep in contact and inform me of serious illness or death no matter what the age of the dog at the time. Apart from that I assess each person or family individually, not on the basis of rigid rules.

Hi agian Donna, My pups see the vet at least five times before they go (post-whelping check for dam & whelps, dew claw removal, PSS testing, and two vaccs) and my vets being what they are, each pup is properly examined each time. But I've had the "Why are thay cheap, what's wrong with them?" comments too and saying "Absolutely nothing! Its the principle of the thing and the fact that I don't want to contribute to making the breed commercial" often gets a cynical look. All I want to do is enjoy my occasional litters, get a pup for myself and approach covering my rearing costs but as a result of pressure and comments like that I just don't know what to ask for the next litter. :(

I agree Sharon, it makes me feel as though I'm not doing enough sometimes but there isn't anymore I can do - I also have all my pups vaccinated, checkups (very thorough), pest treatments, eye tests and all the neccessary bits and pieces...new homes vetted, puppy starter packs etc. etc. I know a few breeders say they charge so much as their pups are show quality but saying that, mine could be too - it depends on their rearing I suppose as well as being breed standard (which mine are) but I have to ask - how do they know that they are show quality at such young ages ?

When some breeders ask for such alot of money for a pup, it does make some of us seem as though we're doing things wrong or not doing things we should - which is nonsence. I do feel sometimes that I have to justify my reasonable prices, I'll be using your reply from now on which hits the nail on the head.

Donna

I don't know what more I could do either Donna. I only breed when I want something to keep, look forward to my litters for years in advance and enjoy them enormously. So I go completely over-board when I'm 'expecting' / have pups in the full knowledge that much of it is for my pleasure as much as for the welfare of the bitch and pups. So why should I look for a profit from something I enjoy so much or recoup costs I know in my heart I didn't really need to expend? I refuse to see the price of my bitch or her upkeep as a whelping cost because she's a companion and friend who is having puppies, not a breeding machine and anyway as often as not she will be home-bred. The necessary outlay for a first litter in a giant breed is high but most of the expensive items (whelping box, heat lamps & pads etc) are re-useable and were paid for long since. The most expensive items (heated kennel & run for older pups, indoor whelping room) are nice to have but many people adapt what they already have perfectly well without the bitch or pups suffering any lack (though the human may :) ). So after the first litter, even with buying the best of food, a new roll of vetbed, new teats, cleaning materials etc, extra heating costs, paying for post whelping check, PSS testing, vaccinations and dew claws I fail to see how anyone doesn't make a profit from a breed that has large litters and usually whelps easily at £600+ a pup. OK that doesn't cover for disasters if you don't breed often but if I have one I'll be too busy crying my eyes out and/or worrying to care about money.

I'm not sure but think one deerhound breeder may have introduced a price differential for show vs pet pups, but I fail to see how the choice is made in a giant breed where rearing after sale makes such a difference and so many ugly ducklings turn ito swans with maturity. You can certainly spot major faults - wool, too much white, undescended testicles - early but I honestly think that such pups should go for a token price. I sold one pup from the last litter for £50 because it had a tiny kink at the tip of its tail that could be felt but not seen, to a very nice family who already had a loved deerhound but didn't have much ready cash at the time because the husband had just become self-employed. Its one of the best homes I've sold to. I don't know if the stories are true, apochryphal or exaggerated but I've heard of a wooly pup being sold for £600 (a reduced price!) and another that had been run on to 6 months being sold for a reduced price - plus 4 months boarding fees! If those stories are true, the breeders involved are, imo, behaving disgracefully.

The other 'justification' for high prices is lots of red in the pedigree, but the Club seems finally to have woken up to what some have been saying for years. With a small gene pool over-use of champions and especially the 'popular sire syndrome' is a road to trouble. Its even less justifiable imo, in a numerically small breed where there is real strength in depth with plenty of lovely dogs that have never seen the inside of a show ring. I wouldn't use a poor or atypical breed specimen but look for longevity, relative freedom from cardiomyopathy, osteosarcoma and bloat plus easy whelping & good maternal behaviour in the pedigree. Then I look for 'under-used' or vanishing lines. Finally I prefer dogs/pedigrees with a good worKing history. Then from what is left I choose what I know or think will blend well with my lines. I rate all of that a long way above ephemeral show ring success that is too often based partly on current fashions anyway and IMHO as long as type is kept and the breed standard adhered to, trying to maintain the gene pool and breeding for longevity and away from breed problems is likely to 'improve the breed' more than winning Crufts.

At which point I shall try to turn rant mode off! :)