following on from the OD/DW debate (thanks everyone who commented) I am now confused about critiques and what does appear.

Phoebie won BPIB at her first open show. The Judge had a dictaphone and did a critique on her. I was told by a few people this would appear in the dog papers but now I'm confused as reading the other thread it sounds like maybe not ??

Can anyone help ? Looking at a copy of Our Dogs it seems it would appear in there but reading the comments by Brainless and Gwen on the other thread it maybe wouldn't appear in DW ? Or am I mixing in my mind show reports and breed notes ?

Sorry to be dense ;)
Sara

Sara, open show notes take at least 4 weeks to be published, usualy much longer as it would appear that the papers wait until they have a few for the show before publication. Champ shows are quicker. If your judge took notes then I would expect that it will be published at some time, I've never had a critique not published but the papers do put a 4 week time limit on sending them in and after that will, I suppose, use their discretion.
I have spent all week trying to get the notes I took down to an acceptable number of words, to the paper that is, and it is difficult as you loose all meaning if you prune to much. It would be smashing if you could come home after judging and write your thoughts down and have that published, but I afraid thats not the way it works. I do that and then spend ages trying to condence without sounding as if I was not even there. You know, nice this, good that, moved well, impressive when stood. Not the judges fault really, as how else do you condence. Ja:)kie

Well I have had loads of critiques taken down by dictaphone and written and then not seen them at all. I have both the dog papers so I know I haven't missed them. This happens with both champ shows and open shows and is one of my pet peeves. I can't see the point of going to the trouble of doing them and then not sending them in.

Jayne, if your judge has taken notes and they have not appeared in either puplication, then write or phone the judge to ask for the critque, you paid your money and I think you have a right to know what the judge thought of your exhibit, Ja:)kie

Whenever I judge, I write up the critique as soon as I get home and make sure it is posted the next day. I feel very strongly that if someone has been kind enough to give you an entry, it is the height of bad manners not to spend a little time writing a critique of their dog. If judges cant be bothered to do this, then they should not accept judging appointments.

Well done Philippa :) Wish there were more like you.

I agree not writing a critique is bad manners. I have judged and sent off my critiques but they have not been published. Once I enquired of the paper concerned, I was told they had not received it and as it was nearly four weeks since the show, even if I did send one in it would not be published. Now I usually send in my critiques by email, and by post, just to make sure. Most people who know me in the breed know that if they want a written critique and it does not appear due to some reason known only to the dog press, then I will happily send out a printed copy of the one I sent to the papers.

Yes, I think you are mixing up show reports and breed notes. Both papers print show report critiques, 1st place for open shows and 1st and 2nd place for Champ shows (although Our Dogs are now saying that room permitting they will publish 3rd place as well).

Gwen and Brainless were talking about the breed notes. Apparently they are not allowed to include results from open shows unless you are lucky enough to get BIS, Res BIS or BPIS.

The critique on Phoebie should appear in both papers as long as the judge sent in the report. Congratulations on the result at her first show.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Hi Sara

I have been waiting for critiques from Judges from Guernsey and Jersey Open Shows from last year. They obviously don't bother sending them in as the Clubs from both Islands prepay for them to be published :(

Does anybody have any suggestions on how we could possibly get the Judges to send in their critiques !!!

What do other Clubs do ???

Look forward to hearing from you all.

Derryn

We make it part of the contract and chase it up if it has not been published within a reasonable time. Some judges seem to think that thanking the committee and a list of the winners is good enough but of course it's not. Jackie

Hi Derryn

Mr Mottoershaw would beg to differ !!! I actually wrote to the committee about this, and apparently the blocks in Dog World & Our Dogs are not pre-paid by the KC of J !! :rolleyes: I beg to differ...I thought they were..

Apparently the critiques are sent to the Hon Secretary within a few days of each show and they are supposed to be putting them into the newsletters...again this hasn't materialised yet...

But saying that ...there have been some critiques in DW & OD but is always for the non-gundog groups....suprising eh?? :rolleyes:

I have been showing for the last 3 years...and only seen one write up in the paper...not amusing !!

Natasha

What we have done is confused you. What we were refering to is the Breed note Column writers, and what they are allowed to report!

Judges that submit critiqes for Open shows, are allowed space to do a critique for the first placed dog in each class, and the names of 2nd and third. At Championship shows they will print a critique for first and second in each class, with the name of the third. For Crufts they will print a critique for the first 3 in the class, though some3 judges forget that they will do this. Some judges are naughty and don't submit critiques when they judge.

The doig papers will print the critiques as space allows, giving priority I beleive to champ show crits.

But they do ask you to keep it down to approx. 30 words per dog, and prune it if you don't often changing the sense of what you meant. Jackie

Sorry Brainless..I think I have confused everyone too :D

What I am referring to is that basically none of our show critiques are printed in the paper...and the ones that are ...are not for our group..I appreciate that the priority is given to champ shows...but some critiques have appeared from our shows from one judge and not the other, but it is usually the gundog judges critique that does not appear !!! If that makes sense !!! :D :D

Natasha

Most likely reason is that the judge did not submit them. If they are sent in within a month of the show then they will print them sooner or later.

You can email dog World and Our Dogs, and they will confirm if and when a particular critiqye was printed!

I probably confused things more, as my original comment on the other thread was about the breed notes, and my 2nd post was about the announcement in this weeks DW that they are going to start publishing critiques to 3rd palce for Ch shows, and breed open shows!

It is not just open shows which are lacking in Critiques - we have had so few this year it is staggering, including none for Crufts!
Gwen

I think I might do that, as its really frustrating....

Well I've been waiting since March for a critique when I got a first beating 5 other dogs. I was so chuft. I am now waiting for a critique which incidently is the husband of the judge back in March, this critique is from a show in June so if I don't get it soon I think I may well right a nice letter to them and enclose an SAE. I presume judges keep a copy of all their critiques ??

I was also at an open show whereby my boy's litter brother got 1st and we got 2nd. The judge wanted to write a critique for both of us as she said it was a hard decision, however when it was printed in the paper mine was left out, probably because the paper wouldn't allow it. It's very frustrating but I think I might write to her as well.

It's funny but I was just discussing this all yesterday with my other half as it had been suggested before to write to the judge but I was a bit concerned incase I annoyed them. ?!

Claire some years ago a critique I wrote never appeared and I woulnt have noticed but for an exibitor writing to me and I sent her a copy of what I'd written a I was grateful to her for pointing it out.

Mattie I think I will write a nice polite letter. I guess as I don't judge I don't really know how judges think. Someone mentioned the judge should be thankful that you entered under them, I'd never thought of it like that before so I suppose they may be pleased that I am so interested in what they think of my dog and that I am prepared to put pen to paper and enclose an SAE. :-)

I wish all Judges realised that they are honoured that an exibitor wants their opinion on their dog,I'm sure that your Judge not having her critique printed would be an oversight but if not then they are out of order accepting an appointment and not providing a written critique it is part and parcel of the invitation to judge.

Great so there's hope yet that I'll get my critiques :-) I'll let you know how I get on and what the judges response is like to my requests.

As a judge myself (Ch shows and open shows) I always do my citique the day of the show or if not, the day after while the dogs are still fresh in my mind. On occasions I have had to ring the dog papers and ask why they have not been published. I was told that they had not been received but if I sent another copy they would rectify the matter. This they have always done.
I feel that it should be part of a judges contract to do a critique for the show and a copy should be sent to the Secretary, that way at least there is more chance of it finally being published. I would also add that I would be more than happy to send a copy of any critique to an exhibitor if they asked me and enclosed a SAE.

i also judge and do agree that it is compulsary to do a critique and maybe the K.C or society should start handing out fines for not doing one.

also did anyone notice in OD that they are encouraging CH nad breed club show judges to critique on 3rd place.

later
vicki

Is there some sort of a book, that lists the judges and their contact details?? I think I might write, and ask for some copy critiques (politely of course:D)

Natasha

Hi Natasha

The Secretary at The Kennel Club of Jersey would be the one that would have the Judges details - address etc.

Good luck

Dessie

Hi Derryn

I thought of that route...and then thought again !!

You know what they are like, I think I would rather pay for one..I called the Kennel Club yesterday, and they have a book for sale, so I will probably go for that one..

Natasha

I have been asked to post the following email:

"Show results are now available on the Kennel Club of Jersey web site http://www.kennelclub.org.je we will also be publishing any critiques sent to us on the site as well"

I hope with helps?

Steven Edwards
Show Sec
KCJ