Can someone please help me to get justice
On monday evening i was taking my Old Tyme Bulldog who is 4 and very good natured for her walk as we approached the bottom of the road ( i live in a cul-de-sac) a neighbours pitball jumped the garden fence and attacked my Lola who was on a lead on the opposite side of the road the neighbours son who is aged about 6 yrs old opened the gate to try and get the dog back as the gate opened the male staffy x pitbull joined in the attack on my dog so now i had 2 dogs locked onto my Lola the owners of the dogs stood in there front garden and watched the attack i now started to scream at the owners which alerted 3-4 neighbours to what was happening after some time myself and the neighbours managed to pull the dogs off myself and a neighbour got lola into the car and straight to the vets lola was very lucky she has part of her left ear missing two large open wounds either side of her neck and a few puncture marks on her body at the vets i dialled 999 to report what had happened to be told the police will not get involved on dog fights and to phone the rspca.  On return from the vets i went to the house to tell them of lola's injury's and to get an apology the owners wouldn't open the door i returned to my home about 10-15 mins later 2 police officers came to my house to warn me to stop harrassing the neighbours i was now gob-smacked and told them what happened and what response i got from my 999 call they could'nt care and i even pointed out that the 2 dogs were illegal animals they told me that the neighbors didn't want an trouble and they will pay for all of lola's vet bills i agreed to this.
On tuesday morning lola had another check up i got the 2 receipts and when i got home i brought the 2 bills to the neighbours to be told to fxxk off and they are not paying for nothing i walked away feeling very angry i got on the phone to the rspca and told the story thinking the dogs would be taken away with the 11 pups they also have and guess what i got told no officer will attend the address as you can imagine im now at boiling point. All what i have read and seen on telly about these dangerous dogs is aload of bxxxxxxt i got back in touch with the police to tell them they are now refusing to pay the vet bills they advised me to go to the small claims court but you can't get blood out of a stone
If any one has any advice,phone numbers,websites to get justice please help

http://www.doglaw.co.uk/ is worth a look - and have you tried the local dog warden? Don't know how much power the dog warden actually has, if any - but they can certainly go and have a word with the neighbours.

There should be a police incident number for when you called them, and also when the neighbours reported you for 'harrassing' them; do you have those? If an agreement was discussed with the police where the owners agreed to pay for Lola's treatment and are now refusing, then the police should have a note of that, and you can go back to them to say it has been breached. Sometimes the police are in a situation where there is little they can do, and unfortunately dog-on-dog attacks is one (different situation but I once reported a man who cut lane in front of me so I had to swerve and brake, I pressed my horn, and he screeched to a halt so I had to do an emergency stop to avoid going into the back of him...thought he was going to get out and stab me... was a bit - made note of numberplate and reported to the police. They responded that they had tried to get in touch via details from DVLA, but it would be my word against his anyway.... sadly sometimes can't do much until after a person has been attacked/ injured or similar in some situations. :-( ). From the sounds of it you were upset and very angry (and I am not surprised) - but you will often get a better response from the police and others if you can manage to be calm when discussing things with them - so try and chill out before chatting with the police again.

Can't think of any other advice off the top of my head, I'm afraid.

If these dogs truly were PitBulls and PitBull crosses, then they were breaking the law -out in public without being muzzled or on leads, which DOES make it a police matter whether they attacked a human or not. You were caused apprehension by them, so the DDA applies. Get in touch with Trevor Cooper in the link Terry gave you as he is THE DDA expert.

Go back to the police.

Firstly, your dog is your property, and she has been damaged by their lack of care/responsibility, so theres criminal damage.

Secondly, the dogs were dangerously out of control in a public place, and clearly you felt at risk of being bitten (that latter part IS crucial). So thats the DDA on two counts.

Thirdly presumably to be out of control in a public place the dogs were off lead on a public highway (depends on your local classifications of public highways).

Fourthly you alledge that the dogs in question are of an illegal breed or breed type, which it is illegal to own... and illegal to breed (and illegal to sell). Even ifthey were legally owned they would not be able to be bred, (all exempted dogs are neutered, tattood and insured before being allowed back to their families, and are subject to conditions as MarianneB says, that they must be muzzled and on a lead in a public place (and front gardens do indeed count, as the public can reasonably be expected to access someones front garden).

I iwll say, be sure on what you want here though, because if the authorities take the dogs, they will suffer, unless the owners agree to PTS - court cases take a long time to come up and dogs spend a very long time in kennels unfortunately rather a lot of cases have come out of kennels in a very poor state. It is after all, not the DOGS fault that they are owned by muppets.

Many thanks for all your replys and suggestions, I will keep you informed of my progress!!

thats so awful hope your girls feeling bit better , i got to say that as for the police i had similar thing happen when my Rottie was younger he was attacked by 2 dogs in our local park they came from nowhere belted across a huge park gunning for my boy while we were just standing still first i new they were coming was the owner screaming at me to hold my dog, (when i already was ) then i see his 2 x breed dogs fairly big like GS , them both jumped straight on my boy the owner was clueless at what to do i ended up punching him in the shoulder to make him get his dogs off i ended up kicking his dog while trying to drag my boy out from under them, my boy needed stitches was badly hurt,
i called police and they said it was nothing to do with them dog warden said to call the police, i told them thats who told me to call you, i had to kick up a big stink to get anyone to do anything in the end it was the council that sent the owner a letter as it was it turned out that one of these dog had bit a child a few weeks before and a complaint was still going on about that also, anyway the people withthe dogs ended up moving away thank god,
it would seem that you have to push to get anything done good luck and i hope your dog gets over this its awful that it can change your dog when things like this happen i no my boy started being very wery of other dog after that dont seem fair when i put so much time and effort into socializing him so as to avoid him being funny with other dogs then things like this happen and upset the balance of what you try to train , good luck xx

That's terrible :(
You must have been terrified, I know I would have been. I dread to think if anything like that happened to my girl :(

Perhaps you could write a letter to clearly define what has happended and what you expect to be done and deliver it to the police, this will allow everything to be recorded and conveyed calmly. I know it can be hard to remember to say everything you want to when your anxious and under pressure. I was the same when someone hit and runned in to my car, you always think of extra things you should have said to the police when they have left.

I certainly think it is a police business if the neighbours dogs are pitbulls? I don't know a huge amount about the DDA but I thought pitbulls were illegal in the UK?

And don't even get me started on the rudeness of the neighbours, that is disgusting. They certainly don't come accross as very responsible dog owners / breeders do they? What exactly do they have planned for this illegal Pit Bull litter?

Dog on dog whether public or private is not down to the Police. This should be dealt with by the local Dog Warden.

If you felt fearful for your own safety and i would be saying this in that the dogs were growling at you, you thought they would attack you or others in the immediate vacinity then yes the local PC on the dog unit should look into this.

As for saying these dogs are Pittbulls or crosses of, can you be sure of this? This again would need to be investigated by the dog unit. When you call back and speak to the Police i would ask for this to be passed onto the local dog unit to contact you.

As for paying the vets bills, it sounds from what you're saying that they verbally told the officers, i doubt this would of been recorded anywhere. I would see what the dog warden and dog units can do for in the first instance and also obtain advice from the link above.
It may be that you may have to take your neighbours to a small claims court, also are your other neighbours on side with you who witnessed this? Thats makes a huge difference if they were witnesses to these dogs being out of control and also if they felt in fear off their own safety.

Hope you get this sorted and your girl Lola hasn't been put off other dogs due to this and she is on the road to recovery.

One other thing the general response officer doesn't have a clue about the DDA unless they have re-searched this themselves. In our neck of the woods we don't get training on that. Anything like this should of been referred to the dog unit there and then for advice, this is what i would of done if i was unsure of something. They are the ones with the full training on the DDA and all amendments.

No other advice to add, just wanted to say, so sorry for what happened to you and in particular poor Lola, I hope that she recovers not just physically, but also mentally, we need this new dog act to go through on dog on dog attacks, we desperately need it!

I hope that you get some sort of justice - keep pushing, keep ringing and writing you really have to push hard for results.

So sorry for you and your girl.

If the RSPCA wont enter the address, for whatever reason, then the police should escort them and protect them while they carry out their duties.
This is an absolutely disgusting shocking thing to happen, you must have been petrified and if nothing else, this needs to be dealt with before it happens again with worse consequences.

Been in touch with the dog warden this morning and they have arranged to come round to take a statement  (something poistive at last)and i have been back in touch with the police and demanded to be refered to the so called police dog squad waiting to hear back on that, I also contacted the pdsa and they were a great help,Im feeling alot better about the situtation today and would like to thank everyone who replied and gave there support

Every one is offering really good advise..

Only one thing I would add is remember you live near these people. A falling out with neighbours can be so stressful and open cans of worms.
Sorry I speak from experience. I was 100% in the right but found it all so sressful and worrying. I  was so pleased when they sold up and moved. I could relax and enjoy my home again.

I am so sorry to hear about your poor girl. I hope she recovers and that you are OK as well.

Cnt put a long post as i am off to the vets in a second, but i would be soooo frustrated as noone is willing to help you find justice! I would want to take it into my own hands but i know this isnt possible as these dogs need to be either pts or confined and especially neutered as they shouldnt be producing pups with a temp like that! i would say pts as the owners are obviously not responsible.

Go to the press RSPCA and the police will pay attention then. Hope your girl makes a full recovery mentally and physically. I would want to pioson these dogs but its not the dogs fault. As for the puppies i really do wonder what will become of them will a terrible upbringing no doubt and their breeding!

i really feel for you Louise xx

> I would want to pioson these dogs but its not the dogs fault.

Exactly, it's not the dogs fault, it's the owners fault, so why would you want to poison them? I certainly agree they shouldn't be being bred from, but many people do breed without consideration of temperament, or health testing, or considering the future of the pups... It may be that the dogs need euthanasing in terms of their temperament and the safety of others, but it should be done through the proper channels and in a humane manner.

I'm glad you've got some response from the dog warden, have you managed to get a better response from the police, and any luck with doglaw?

> I would want to pioson these dogs but its not the dogs fault

I'm sure that's not quite come out how you meant it to has it Louise??? I can't imagine the thought process behind that otherwise.

Simsimma, My absolute sympathy and best wishes for you and your girl x I echo SueJaw's words.

This is not just a simple case of a dog fight, it was a vicious unproked brutal attacked, and i have no doubts that if this was a smaller breed of dog or cat or child it wouldnt have stood a chance!!!

No i wouldnt poison the dogs as dogs are products of thier owners but they need to come to justice, the owners facing some kind of fine and the dogs be destroyed, as sad as it may be killing them they cannot be kept responsibliy especially with these owners and left to yet severly injure someones beloved pet.

Louise

as sad as it may be killing them they cannot be kept responsibliy especially with these owners and left to yet severly injure someones beloved pet.


I would feel exactly like that if my dog were attacked by these two dogs, but I can take myself out of the equation as I have no emotional attachment apart from great sympathy towards Lola. It really is not the dogs fault it is up to all owners to keep their dogs under control at all times, given that these dogs have just had pups I would suggest that they were even more territorial than usual, the owners are absolutely responsible to pay for all vet bills here for Lola and perhaps even a much needed behaviourist to help her from becoming fear aggressive herself. It is the pure lack of responsibility from the other dog owners that is the worst thing of all here.

We domesticate dogs have them living amongst us but the natural instincts are all still there dogs will be dogs, different breeds have different characters and traits, some breeds are less dog tolerant which is why we need dog on dog attacks to be taken seriously and the owners banged to rights when not being vigilant in protecting other dogs from their own with stiff fines and full responsibility of all bills and compensations it will make people think about the breed they have in the first place, if they can truly handle it and keep them properly enclosed and under control, perhaps some breeds would not be so flipantly purchased if the law came down hard on these accidents. The DDA is outdated and no good when it comes to protecting other dogs.

I don't think the dogs should be PTS unless they have bad characters and it is a one off, but the owners are totally irresponsible and Lola needs justice.

> or cat or child

I do always wonder why people have this tendency to asssume that because a dog attacks another dog it would do the same to a child. Dogs can be dog aggressive and not human aggressive, or vice versa, without being both.

> and the dogs be destroyed

Without being physically able to assess the situation, I am not sure that any of us can know that the dogs need to be destroyed. They certainly need to be assessed by someone qualified to do so, who can make an informed judgement.

I am with Carrington though in that if this had happened to my dog, I would be distressed, devastated and livid, and even more so when as well as having had to witness my dog being attacked, I was having to fight to get what should be expected in the way of apology and vets bill payment.

How is Lola doing? I hope she's recovering OK. I have had a search on the web and found this website - it's not a technical legal one, but it sums up a lecture from Trevor Cooper, the Dog Law expert - it is actually aimed towards people who are trying to defend their dogs following an incident, but by the same token, it gives an idea of what laws the owners of the attacking dogs may have fallen foul of, so may be some help to the OP - it does emphasise, though, that it is not a legal website. http://www.thurstaston.com/lawtalk.html I hope it is some use. :-)

Sorry, but at least two of my dogs would deem some-dog walking past THEIR territory, ie the front garden, as just grounds for giving that dog 'what for'... As a responsible dog owner of course my dogs are not IN the front garden unless they are on leads, but as far as DOGS are concerned, some will see others presence close to their own area as provocation.

Funnily enough the estate 'latch-key' dogs agree with mine!, because the only dogs who ever walk past my front garden are the ones on leads forced to do so by their owners - the latch key off lead dogs make a wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide arc well away from my front garden and avoid passing the house (and any other houses that have resident dogs) if at all possible.

Im not at all justifying what occurred, so don't get me wrong, but these are doggy minds and how they think, and what WE think is just provocation and what THEY think is, are two very different things.

And as munrogirl says... why the leaping to the conclusion that a dog who is dog aggressive or dog intolerant, is also going to be child aggressive - mine all think children are the best thing since sliced bread (though its cupboard love i must admit, children are nearer the ground and far more easily conned out of their food!).

I cannot agree. This dog was attacked outside of the aggressive dogs territory. Also, the owners of the dogs did not come to the aid of the owners whose dog was being attacked. I do know that there is a law that the police have to take seriously, but for the life of me I cannot remember what it is (or whether there has been a change in it). I would go back to the police and 'demand' that something is done. Something similar happened to someone I know with GSD's. A dog approached them when they were out on open ground. They all played together then the other dog decided to go home. Unfortunately the GSD's also went with it and whatever happened in the dogs garden (all unseen) the dog received puncture wounds. The police definitely followed up because the owner of the dog demanded that they did. Luckily for the GSD's owners the CPS didn't follow through as she paid all vets treatment etc. but it was a very worrying time for the owner of the GSD's.
I wouldn't let the matter drop I have to say.

Just found it, it is the Dog Act 1871 that she was being done under.

I think what was being said was that what we perceive as the dogs territory and how the dogs see it is not the same.

The attacking dogs may well consider the street outside their home and the local area around it their territory,a nd with pups to defend more so.

It is their owners who are at fault, not the dogs for acting like dogs with a strong territorial/guarding/defence drive.

Poor Lola being unable to leave the territory (being on lead) got the full extent of their wrath, for not taking the hint/daring to encroach.

If there was a dog on the other side of the fence to my garden my dogs would bark but not leap over and savage the dog, this is thier territory but they still wouldnt hospitalise the poor animal. Think there has to be a line drawn between showing a dog that it doesnt belong in his territory and attacking for just simply being in the vacinity. I have no doubt that their temperament is unstable, and she wasnt directly threatening her pups and its simply not on. The fence should be 6ft or more because these dogs are dangerous.

What they said plus get a solicitor, you have witnesses? take out a private action against neighbours & police.

Your vet will also have evidence on Lola's injuries and I would go to town!!
Claim through your solicitor all fees, harrassment from police, and anything else I could think of.

> Just found it, it is the Dog Act 1871 that she was being done under

That's one of the ones mentioned in the last link I posted. :-)

> I have no doubt that their temperament is unstable

My mistake, I didn't realise you had met the dogs, and were a qualified behaviourist.

Thanks, didn't notice your link.

The owner of the GSD's was being done under the 1871 act, not the act of 1991.

So as far as I understand you can go back to the police and insist that they take the matter further. That is what the owner of the attacked dog in my story did.

> harrassment from police

Sorry Whistler just on your comment i haven't read anywhere that the Police were harrassing anyone.
What was mentioned is that the neighbours have complained about the OP harrassing them and the Police acted on it and then mentioned that the neighbours would be paying all vets bills, which they have in turn now refused to do.

To the OP have you heard anything from the dog unit or dog warden yet? I would be looking to call on a regular basis to get some answers on this. I know from experience though that many dog jobs can take a long time to deal with and sort out, its not a job which is dealt with over a couple of days unless a human was attacked in a severe way.

And what kind of people stand by and let a six-year-old try to tackle an out of control pitbull?Ido hope eveything works out well,Louise.Keep us informed.

Ok then a dog with a perfectly stable temperament would do this???

Just wondering how your girl is today.You too?

Sorry they said that the owners of the dogs had complained to the police, therefore I read it wrong Apologies...

Lola is getting better but still unsure about walking out of the street a few treats and encouragement is slowly working, The Rspca have taken the dogs away as the owners left there home over the weekend and left the dogs alone, the police are now trying to trace them to make an arrest !!! The laws in this country need to be changed asap.Im working now closely with my local Animal welfare unit, many thanks for all your messages i will keep you all updated 
                       Simmone and Lola

Thats great the owners shall come to justice. Hope your girl makes lots of progress and that you dont have too many grey hairs. Big hugs to you both. Some tasty ham and cheese may help.

Louise xx

ETA so they left the dogs and a litter of 11 pups, somehow im not shocked!

Glad Lola is improving, I hope it doesn't take her too long to recover her confidence, poor lass.

And I hope the police catch these people soon.

Simmone,

So very pleased that there is a positive in this. The dogs have been removed, regardless of how it came about, it shows just what bad owners they are. You never know depending on how the assessments go of these dogs they may find lovely forever homes. Did you find out if there was a litter of pups in the house.
Really also very glad that many agencies are pulling together in dealing with this family.

Keep us posted on any news..

A big thank you to everyone who sent such postive and helpful messages,as i felt like i was banging my head against a brick wall ... My lastest news is the dogs and the pups have been removed by animal welfare and the police are going to take action against these terribe owners. Lola is getting back to her old self !!

Excellent news all round for all dogs concerned and the owners will be dealt with.. Woohoo..

Way to go and not giving up on this..