hi to everyone i am new here and hoping for some advice

me and my partner have 4 dogs (11yr meg border collie) (11yr max staff x paterdale terrier) (4yr shorty staff) (4m axl doberman)

problem we are having is shorty has started fighting with all the other dogs we have had him from 4 months old and apart from the odd falling out between them never really been a problem. before christmas he fought with max which we think was over a toy so we took toys out of the way. Then they fought again drawing blood not sure what over. recently he put axl in the vets as he latched on to him and would not let go, then last week went mad in the back garden at my 10yr daughter over nothing as we was all there to witness it happen she was just coming out of the house. my daughter takes him to bed every night and always play together. Yesterday he started on meg and put her in the vets, meg has always been like a mum to him since he was a pup they curled up together. At the moment he is seperated from them and the kids, he looks at you like he has done no wrong like a jakal and hyde he can be so loving one min and then this the next. we talked to the vets he advised us to rehome him or have him put to sleep, at the moment all centers are full and wont take him we really really dont want to go down the other road just want to hear what people would do in this situation. trying to rule with our heads not our hearts which is hard to do.
thanks
chris

clearly somethings not right to have such a change. if i were you i'd get down the vets and have him examined, there are any number of physical issues that can cause aggression to surface, hopefully its medical and easy to fix.

failing that i would hire a behaviourist, if you use search a couple of links should come up.

best of luck and i hope the injured dogs are ok

just wondered if there is an underlined illness that is making him so aggressive, especially if he is acting a bit of a jekyl & hyde and this seems to have come on quite suddenly.

Did your vet mention any possible causes?

Hope you find a solution, its a very hard position to be in

I'm trying to get the full picture here - Max and Meg are you two oldest dogs - yes?   And Shorty was the youngest until about 2 months ago when you would have got Axl - is this correct?

The first fight was between Max and Shorty around Christmas - almost 6 months ago, before Axl came on the scene - but since Axl came on the scene Shorty has become agressive to both adult dogs as well as Axl, and you say he "went mad" at your daughter last week.

You have acted wisely in ensuring that Shorty is kept separate from your other dogs and children until you decide what to do. The safety of your children has to come before Shorty's wellbeing, sadly.    Has your vet examined Shorty to see if there is any underlying medical condition that might have effected this change in his behaviour?   I would think that this should be done first, and then perhaps go down the route of getting a Behavourist in to assess Shorty and the dynamics of your household, including the other dogs and the children.

As you say, Rescue Centres are full at the moment, and to be honest, an aggressive staffie is going to be very hard to rehome.   In your shoes I would be thinking that there would only be one way to ensure that Shorty - and everyone else - was safe - not a nice thought I know, but sadly sometimes responsible dog owners have to do things that aren't nice to do.

Sometimes its very hard, being responsible dog owners.  {{hugs}}

Margot

I'm so sorry for your predicament, but afraid to say I would have him pts for the sake of your other dogs and daughter :-(

Rehoming isn't really an option at the moment, there are so many dogs, but especially staffs, competing for too few homes, and who would take him knowing his history? You would never forgive yourself if you rehomed him and he killed someone else's dog or disfigured their child.

Sorry to say it is the sensible and responsible option, however heartbreaking it is.

Has he had a full check up at the vets though to make sure there's no medical cause for his unpredictability?

thank you for all your responses. When we took meg to the vets we only talked about shorty i will be making an appointment in the vets monday to have a full medical checkup. he is a muched loved member of the family along with the rest of the pack but as everybody has said i know rehoming him would be hard but fingers crossed monday the vets pick some thing up (i know thats not a great thing to say but in this situation he could be made better )
thankyou once again
chris

I dont think it would be safe to rehome him after him showing this behaviour towards your little girl. What if he bit a child?

I would have a full check-up, his eyes and teeth also. Is he neutered, its extremely strange for him to start this behaviour and it sounds purely medical, make a diary of the incidents (lets hope that he doesnt cause any harm though) to see if you can see exactly the situations he is in before he 'flips'. What time of day, whos around, weather, lighting (im thinking his eyesight) or it could be neurological similar to human schizophrenia? but im not vet.

Louise

Again just trying to get the picture. Was there harmony in the dog hierarchy before you bought the male doberman pup. Has this contributed to the problem. I have a staff who lives with a cat and I know she would not accept another cat at any cost.
However the response to your daughter is another matter. Your child must come first.
For your own peace of mind have him checked at the vets. It is a big risk to take to continue in this situation. None of your three other dogs could protect themselves and there quality of life would be miserable.
Something has to give and I hope the outcome will be the right one. A horrible dilemma to have to deal with.

hi
yes he has been neutered he was done when he was 8m. Before the incident with axl they had played together all day and on numerous occassions before that, The only one that give axl a grumble was meg but i think it was a pup bouncing around in her face thing. We lost sally our other staff last year to cancer she was nearly 15yr and my partner had a staff before her so we are not new to the breed.We just wanted you to know that so that you know we are not irresponsible dog owners.they all go off the lead together apart from axl never any problems out with them with other dogs. i know my children come first its a really horrible dilemma cos he can be  such a loving dog me and my parner are in bits at the moment with knowing the possiblity of what the future holds

big thanks to all who have replyed to my post

chris

Maybe had his thyroid levels checked also.

A friend of mine had border collies, 6 of them, they all lived happily together, then one started to turn and fight, just as you have described, ended up her eye sight was failing, so anything that moved she went for - which sadly also meant her 4 legged and 2 legged family :(   Sadly they did end up having her PTS as they just couldn't risk her biting the children.

Good luck, lets hope its something that can be treated.

Hi,

Before anything else I would be wanting a full vet cheque including full bloods and joint manipulation etc to make sure he isn't in any pain.  Staffs have a very high pain threshold and very good at hiding it.  This sounds like quite a sudden change so it amy well be soemthing physical.  It sounds like this started before the Dobe if the first incident was at Christmas and the Dobe pup is only 4 months?

Not all vets think that it's worth checking for all physical problems when there are only behavioural symptoms so stand your ground, no matter how small the chance they think it is it's very worth ruling it out, let us know how the vets appointment goes.

chris you sound like you really want to do the right thing. you know what it might come to but don;t worry untill you've had him checked out by the vet, it could be something as simple as a rotten tooth giving him gyp and putting him in a mood (i really hope its so simple), so wait and see before you start thinking of what comes next.

has anything changed in the house recently? i ask because my boys behavior is far from top notch but he became down right aggressive to strangers after i had a big operation. if there has been a change it could be effecting things- is someone ill or (not meaning to be personal or prying, just raising the thought) if there have been arguments or even if someones routine has changed it might have effected him

I would check for all forms of epilepsy. I had a dog years ago who was fine one moment and attcking anything or anyone dog or person the next. It turned out he had a form of epilepsy.